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Post by toprowguy on Dec 29, 2005 19:49:44 GMT -6
If you run the spread offense would you rather have bigger stronger OL at the guard or tackle position. We see a lot of 2 techs so I'm thinking of putting our bigger stronger guys at the guard spot and putting our quicker guys at Tackle so we can run dart.
What doe severyone else think or what do you do.
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Post by bigdaddyd on Dec 29, 2005 20:14:35 GMT -6
Coach, what if those 2 technique tackles slant to gaps (or better yet you face multiple stunts), your big guys better have quick feet and be able to pass protect. I would prefer quick average size OL for a spread look, but I know much about it; we don't run much of that here...
I never heard the term "Dart", could you please explain?
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 29, 2005 20:20:23 GMT -6
dart is much like counter-trey. playside tackle hinges out on the DE. both guards & center block back. backside tackle pulls & leads up through the hole.
don't dissect the scheme here OL guys....i'm giving a most basic description
it is a way to run lead from the oneback gun.
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 29, 2005 20:31:58 GMT -6
Its an ISO with the tackle on the playside LB. It has been a great play for us.
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Post by los on Dec 29, 2005 21:05:37 GMT -6
Toprow, I think I saw where Tog does that very thing, bigger OG's and quicker OT's. Also the C and both OG's in a 3pt stance, OT's in a 2pt!
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 29, 2005 21:23:18 GMT -6
Exactly what I was think thank, I'll have to wait for Tog to long on to confirm and to provide any other reasons for it.
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Post by tog on Dec 29, 2005 22:04:49 GMT -6
huey is right, dart or zone t is basically tackle iso,
i didn't initially come to think of it that way however
i initially thought of it as counter gt by another method, as the psde was being "kicked out" by technique, instead of having someone physically kick him out, we were taking advantage of his being coached not to get reached
putting the smaller/quicker/more athletic guys at OT gives you people that can reach on zone/jets/sprintout and gives you good pullers for the darts and counters and quicker guys for pass pro
the guards can then be the bigger bruiser kind of guys that can crush people on counter gts and get some movement on dart or zone t, they can also be guys that stuff an initial bull rush inside that messes up pockets
at least that is the thinking
wish I had some of those guards right now
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 29, 2005 22:07:13 GMT -6
also....vs spread you will see a 4 down front more than a 3 down....
well, that's the way it used to be....not all this 3-3 crap (lol) is in vogue...
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Post by sls on Dec 29, 2005 22:08:40 GMT -6
In our Gun Option Spread we play our better OL at the OG's because we see even defenses.
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Post by tog on Dec 29, 2005 22:08:52 GMT -6
would much rather see the 4-2 look
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 29, 2005 22:12:15 GMT -6
In our Gun Option Spread we play our better OL at the OG's because we see even defenses. why do you do that? we like our tackles to be the better ones. they have to do more vertical kicks on pass protections, have to block better athletes (DE's more athletic than DT's), and rarely get help (whereas a guard may get help from the center.) |
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 29, 2005 22:12:35 GMT -6
The only problem I see with having a bigger, slower payer at guard is that we run the Shuffle Option with pulling the guard to the playside LB. But it more of a shuffle pull not a trap pull.
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Post by tog on Dec 29, 2005 22:14:17 GMT -6
you talking about the shuttle option thing that utah runs?
you can just run that vertical push to the playside linebacker without having to work down and pull around
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 29, 2005 22:17:01 GMT -6
True
I'll have to take a look at that this winter.
I hate to change because it was a huge play for us this year. Ran it 5-10 times a game.
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Post by tog on Dec 29, 2005 22:37:23 GMT -6
ok, just how slow are your guards?
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Post by oguru on Dec 30, 2005 2:21:58 GMT -6
We need to have all or our offensive lineman center included to be able to pull. With that being saisd the best pulklers need to be the guards,as thats who we will pull the mopst running the warp which is a G counter play,and Dart which is a Guard Tackle Pull play.
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baraboo99
Sophomore Member
[F4:ryan.andersen33]
Posts: 205
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Post by baraboo99 on Dec 30, 2005 6:06:10 GMT -6
I totally agree. My two best offensive linemen are my tackles, and they are my smallest linemen as well. We do a lot of pulling, and the big boys just can't make it all the way down the line fast enough sometimes, so we put them at guard where they don't have to go as far. Also in our league we see a lot of undersized speedy DE's and I think its best to put guys who can move with them on the outside.
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Post by coltscoach on Dec 30, 2005 6:11:33 GMT -6
we play our best o lineman at center. then we go with the second best at LG this is the G that pulls the most other than our C. Our Best T plays LOT due to the fact he rarely ever gets any help.. Our worst OT plays ROT since he gets a chip with either a TE, RB, or even a slot depending on the play.
Hope this helps
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Post by tog on Dec 30, 2005 10:46:57 GMT -6
we don't use a te in the gun
the center is actually our worst fullback type, not an ol
so the center is probably the best athlete, in our stuff, for the things we ask him to do
1. block back on counter
2. sink to swivel bail out double reads on pass pro
and, we just don't NEED a huge guy there, it would be nice to have one that was mobile like that, but if we did, he would probably be playing defense first anyhow
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Post by sls on Dec 30, 2005 15:15:05 GMT -6
In our Gun Option Spread we play our better OL at the OG's because we see even defenses. why do you do that? we like our tackles to be the better ones. they have to do more vertical kicks on pass protections, have to block better athletes (DE's more athletic than DT's), and rarely get help (whereas a guard may get help from the center.) Our better drive blockers play guard. I like to be able to get a 1 on 1 block with that guard on the 2 tech to give the OT a free release to the ILB. Our OT's tend to be the quicker type kid. We set our OL thinking run first and then pass even though we throw more than run becuase 80% of our passing game is one step. |
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Post by toprowguy on Dec 30, 2005 15:19:57 GMT -6
My thoughts exactly
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