|
|
Post by wreckingcrew98 on Jul 23, 2005 12:22:10 GMT -6
Question for all the Defensive Gurus. What defense do you like against the spread. I have seen most of the defenses in action against us, but haven't seen too many be effective. We basically are a shotgun no-huddle offense based out of doubles. We run some empty, some bunch, some double tight, some Gun Bone...etc. We're multiple. Run game wise we run alot of the Utah running game with a few extra's. We have a two year all-State QB who is a dual threat and our two best wideouts are 6'3 225 and 6'2 210. Not much speed but excellent route runners with good hands. Because of our size at WR we don't substitute personell......Go ahead and Light me up...
|
|
|
|
Post by gamedog on Jul 23, 2005 20:34:28 GMT -6
I'm not defensive guru so I will attack it from the offensive side of the ball. The best defense against the spread is to run the ball and eat up time on offense and don't let the other team get on the field. Do what you have to do to get yourself into a situation where you can go for it on 4th down and get the other teams offense frustrated that they are not getting their time to "shine". In the past 4 years in the playoffs we have seen spread teams 6 times. In each game we had at LEAST one drive that was 17 plays. Three times we took the opening kickoff and had the ball the entire 1st quarter. You talk about taking the starch outta someone. In 4 of those games the other team had a LOT more talent on offense than we had on our whole team, yet we won all 6 games against the spread by using our offense as our defense.
|
|
FF/Coach
Sophomore Member
If your heart is in it, you can do it!!!
Posts: 134
|
Post by FF/Coach on Jul 24, 2005 8:51:01 GMT -6
I would run a 4-4, cover 3, with shifting fronts and a lot of pressure, at you. Our OLBs are run 1st pass 2nd players reading the OT's 1st step for run pass/read, if he shows run, and we see flow to, we step up into C-D gap hard, flow away we check cutback, QB, Reverse, and B gap as we pursue down the LOS. If the OT shows pass our OLB opens to the sideline and finds #1 as he drops to his flats, if #1 clears the flats our OLB flips his hips back to the QB and takes anyone in his flats hard, we picked 20 last year with this scheme, and were #1 in our league against the run.
|
|
|
|
Post by thurman on Jul 24, 2005 9:40:47 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe that someone can effectively defend the spread with 4 LB's on the field.. the whole introduction of the 4-2-5 was caused by the increase in teams that run the spread.. In a 2x2 formation you are going to either split the difference or walker your OLBs out on my slots.. if you split the difference I will be forced to run uncovered until you switch.. and if you widen out your backers on my slots, then you are playing a 4-2-5 and would be better off to have ss's there instead of OLBs..
The best defense against the spread is a 33 stack or some variation with a combo of coverages behind.. with 3, roll to 2.. 2 robber.. 1..
|
|
|
|
Post by captmccrae on Jul 24, 2005 10:19:33 GMT -6
Spread teams are licking their chops if your primary coverage is 1/3's - too many seams w/ 4 vertical threats.
|
|
FF/Coach
Sophomore Member
If your heart is in it, you can do it!!!
Posts: 134
|
Post by FF/Coach on Jul 24, 2005 11:37:13 GMT -6
If you run the 4 vert. seams we'll drop our WOLB into cover 4 or cover 2, he is a D-back/LBer hybrid, playing up as an OLBer anyway. That' our primary objective anyway if you want to throw the ball we will take the pass away with cover 2 or 1/4's an try to force you to run the ball, and vise versa if you want to run we will set the OLBer up there tight where you have to throw the ball, and we mix the 2 up enough that you are guessing where we are coming from. It's worked for us.
Also we are a spread team, and if you are putting a 3-3 stack in front of us we will drive down the field 4-6 yds a whack all day long, we love to run the ball, in fact our philosophy is spread em out so we can run inside. This has given us an average of 2055 yds rushing the past 3 seasons.
|
|
|
|
Post by captmccrae on Jul 24, 2005 19:09:34 GMT -6
That mix sounds better than the original post which mentioned only 4-4 Cover 3.
|
|
FF/Coach
Sophomore Member
If your heart is in it, you can do it!!!
Posts: 134
|
Post by FF/Coach on Jul 24, 2005 20:32:40 GMT -6
Guess the post was a little misleading. Our base package is 4-4 cover 3, then we will adjust to coverages 0, 1, 2, 2-man, 3-man, & 4.
|
|
|
|
Post by captmccrae on Jul 24, 2005 21:50:16 GMT -6
Have done it both ways, & my opinion is that I'd rather train 4 DB's to play deep zones (or Cover 2 - which requires the most technique work) & then move a safety down & play cover 3 or Robber; Starting 'em down & then backing 'em up can get you in trouble vs spread teams, though. Don't want to sit in 1/3's vs spread doubles.
|
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 24, 2005 21:52:43 GMT -6
you don't want to sit in 3
but you want to make them have to throw the ball
|
|
smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211 
|
Post by smd on Jul 24, 2005 22:18:42 GMT -6
alot has been stated about the spread offense and the 33 defense this past year on message boards and at clinics. this is my 2 cents on these subjects:
1. i am not an expert on this.LOL
2. i have seen several state title games from several states in which the winner play either 1 or 2 fronts and coverages. that is it. so.... i don't believe that it is how much you do, but how well you execute your simple scheme, the type of athletes you have, and how hard the kids play for each other ( probably the most underappreciated thing in coaching ).
3. don't treat the spread offense any different than any other offense, focus on your alignment, keys/reads, and assignments. get them to play fast.
4. on the other side of that, we as coaches do have tendencies. so find out as much as you can and take that away. but it all boils down to jimmies and joes, not x's and o's. drawing on a board has never won a game.
5. i hear that people play the 33 and 425 to get more speed on the field. why is it that teams that run 43 defenses say the same thing? who is right? i find that argument kinda of funny. so... i believe that you should put your best on the field in positions to make plays, teach a scheme that you know inside and out, coach the mess out of them and let'm play.
6. one other thing, if thier offense is really good (no matter the scheme they use), then keep the ball on offense for as long as you can.
7. this is a great message board.
|
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 24, 2005 22:30:05 GMT -6
#5- people in a 4-3 get more speed out there than 5-2 teams do generally, and 3-3 teams get even more speed out there than they do
#6-that is my plan
#7, spread the word via email and any other way you can think of
|
|
|
|
Post by captmccrae on Jul 24, 2005 22:34:47 GMT -6
Another option vs Spread to keep 6 in the box is to zone (4 or 2) the "tendency" side (Best receiver(s)/wide side) & man the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by DLine06 on Jul 25, 2005 2:59:58 GMT -6
I would run a 4-4, cover 3, with shifting fronts and a lot of pressure, at you. Our OLBs are run 1st pass 2nd players reading the OT's 1st step for run pass/read, if he shows run, and we see flow to, we step up into C-D gap hard, flow away we check cutback, QB, Reverse, and B gap as we pursue down the LOS. If the OT shows pass our OLB opens to the sideline and finds #1 as he drops to his flats, if #1 clears the flats our OLB flips his hips back to the QB and takes anyone in his flats hard, we picked 20 last year with this scheme, and were #1 in our league against the run. I agree. When we played spreads the JV and the Varsity a majority of the time stayed with the 4-4 and even went with a split 31. We did a lot of cover 3 behind it. In certain times with spread, the Varsity would convert to a 50 defense. With 4-4, we usually did a lot more twisting with the tackles and ends. To me you can have any defense against any type of spread offense from the 4-4 to 33 stack. The key thing is that you have to have a great defensive line. The kind of D-Line I'm talking about is a group of kids that every play the QB is running for his life, getting hit or being sacked. Great defensive lineman to me need only 3 moves: 1. Their best one. 2. A back up move 3. A change-up. As a high school player, I enjoy playing spread teams than teams that utilize the I. I'm more worried about teams that like to go 3 x 1 or go all 5 recievers on routes. |
|
|
|
Post by thurman on Jul 25, 2005 8:43:28 GMT -6
You give me an overly aggressive D-line and I will eat you alive with screens, Draws, and Speed Option..
|
|
coachkd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 101
|
Post by coachkd on Jul 25, 2005 8:54:36 GMT -6
As an offensive spread coach, I can tell you right now the one coverage I hate is Quarters. If you have a good pattern reading secondary running Quarters it will slow down the spread pass to a crawl. If you play Quarters with hard corners, and to us a hard corner is one that lines up 5 yards or less off the WR, then you really can shut it all down!!!
When Quarters is run this way it "feels" to us like the defense has 5 to 6 in the undercoverage (depending on the front, whether it is a 4-3 or 3-4), and 4 deep. How can that be? If they are playing Quarters with hard corners they are taking away the quick game with the Corners, but the corners can also drop deep and it ends up being a 4 deep coverage. So to us it feels like Cover 2 in the undercoverage, and 4 across in the deep coverage.
I spent alot of time trying to figure out how to beat Quarters, I like the package I have developed and have success against it, but it is the one coverage that gives us fits. If we play against a good Quarters team we always try to run the ball first, pass second.
BTW - we love it when we see 4-4 cover 3... nothing better than when I see guys wearing neck rolls walked out of the box and trying to cover our slots!!! Its always a fun night when we get C3.
|
|
|
|
Post by captmccrae on Jul 25, 2005 9:16:06 GMT -6
I hear you kd - couldn't agree more.
|
|
|
|
Post by wreckingcrew98 on Jul 25, 2005 11:51:42 GMT -6
Glad to see so many jump on this post. I have heard some very good ideas. Basically we love to see a 4-4 cov 3., But saying that I will also agree that Defenses tend to try and over adjust to the spread (and with one week of preparation and considering we'll throw in a wrinkle or two per week) you had better be sound in whatever defense you like to run. Also I agree that quarters with a hard corner makes the passing game a little tougher. It does two things: 1. It makes the coverage harder to read pre-snap. 2. With pattern reading it can either give you a 4 deep with with four under or three under depending on the front, or it can be 2 deep with 5/4 under. Great replies love to hear them all. I think the keys are:
1. to be sound in whatever defense you use
2. Find a way to get pressure without having to take guys out of coverage (Zone Blitzes, line stunts etc.)
3. Disguise coverage so the QB. cannot get a good pre-snap read. Make him think after he gets the ball.
4. Great scouting! What type of spread do they run? What is the offenses primary objective?(do they spread and go deep?, Do they spread and run?, Do they Dink and Dunk?) What other defenses have had success and why? What was their game plan against a similiar team to your own? Who is there playmaker/s?
5. Practice, Practice, Practice.
|
|
