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Post by phantom on Mar 24, 2007 13:25:18 GMT -6
I read a lot of posts here from coaches that are "married" to an offensive or defensive system or who have no interest in one side of the ball or other. I think that young coaches have to be careful of that. If you're bound and determined to coach a particular side of the ball, position, or system you may be locking yourself out of jobs and making it more difficult to advance within the profession. If you read the bios of college coaches, including assistants, you'll see that many, if not most, have coached mutiple positions and on both sides of the all.
A couple of points to ponder: the great passing coach Lavell Edwards was BYU's DC before he became the HC; Wing-T guru Dennis Creehan is a DC in Canada and has coached defense or STs for about 15 years.
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Post by dubber on Mar 24, 2007 15:00:39 GMT -6
I read a lot of posts here from coaches that are "married" to an offensive or defensive system or who have no interest in one side of the ball or other. I think that young coaches have to be careful of that. If you're bound and determined to coach a particular side of the ball, position, or system you may be locking yourself out of jobs and making it more difficult to advance within the profession. If you read the bios of college coaches, including assistants, you'll see that many, if not most, have coached mutiple positions and on both sides of the all. A couple of points to ponder: the great passing coach Lavell Edwards was BYU's DC before he became the HC; Wing-T guru Dennis Creehan is a DC in Canada and has coached defense or DTs for about 15 years. Coach Edwards was also part of the BYU staff that ran the Singlewing----he said the only reason he was at BYU was because he was one of the few Mormens who knew the singlewing. Great post, besides, even if offensive guys are "evil", you have to study their schemes to understand how they attack you. How am I going to stop the spread unless I first study and understand it? "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"---as the old adage goes Also, don't lock yourself into one scheme. Dead-T guys should learn about 5-wide shotgun........spread option guys should learn about the DW......case in point: the hybrid singlewing and spread teams (ala Flordia and Arkansas) |
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Post by brophy on Mar 24, 2007 15:07:49 GMT -6
besides, even if offensive guys are "evil", you have to study their schemes to understand how they attack you. How am I going to stop the spread unless I first study and understand it? "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"---as the old adage goes Also, don't lock yourself into one scheme. Dead-T guys should learn about 5-wide shotgun........spread option guys should learn about the DW......case in point: the hybrid singlewing and spread teams (ala Flordia and Arkansas) I believe that once you "Get" something, you should press yourself to learn something ELSE in the off-season (even if you have no immediate need to use it). Sometimes, just checking out how the guys on the "other side of town" do things, can give you a new perspective on how to do things. |
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Post by midlineqb on Mar 24, 2007 15:21:15 GMT -6
There is NO end to learning as a football coach. You must know both sides of the ball and many different offenses and defenses in order to be able to attack whichever side you are not coaching. Understanding different defenses allows you, as an offensive coach, to know how to attack all those different defenses and vice-versa if you are on the defensive side of the ball. You can also learn from other offenses or defenses to help you with your offense or defense. It is just a continual process of learning for a football coach. Hope I haven't rambled too much. Just my opinion.
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Post by dubber on Mar 24, 2007 15:22:38 GMT -6
Hope I haven't rambled too much. Just my opinion. If I worried about this, I'd have like 20 posts |
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Post by coachveer on Mar 24, 2007 15:53:01 GMT -6
Hey, if I had a chance to do it all over again I'd might just line up in that dang Straight T.
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Post by coachcalande on Mar 24, 2007 17:12:42 GMT -6
I read a lot of posts here from coaches that are "married" to an offensive or defensive system or who have no interest in one side of the ball or other. I think that young coaches have to be careful of that. If you're bound and determined to coach a particular side of the ball, position, or system you may be locking yourself out of jobs and making it more difficult to advance within the profession. If you read the bios of college coaches, including assistants, you'll see that many, if not most, have coached mutiple positions and on both sides of the all. A couple of points to ponder: the great passing coach Lavell Edwards was BYU's DC before he became the HC; Wing-T guru Dennis Creehan is a DC in Canada and has coached defense or DTs for about 15 years. i HEAR YA, and I am one who will NOT accept a head coaching job If I have administrators, boosters, parents or whoever dictating to me that we need to run their offense and not what I believe in. |
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Post by coachsky on Mar 24, 2007 17:13:18 GMT -6
Great topic.
I have learned the most by coaching both sides of the ball and game planning against different schemes. My preference is to coach on a staff where each coach has to lead/asst on both sides or with special teams.
I think flexibility is a philosophy that I like to see in all areas.
That's why I like the o Multiple I and 4-3 Defense. It allows me flexibility. If I have a great QB I throw more, I have a great line and RB, we run more, I can expand the offense with a Running QB. With the 4-3 we can play very straight up to be safe or we can step up our zone pressure package and take risks.
My preferences are to pound on offense, 80-20, preferably with a running QB. On defense I like vanilla, gap control, spill everything, cover 2. But I have a framework that is flexible - for the talent and for the opponent.
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Post by coachcalande on Mar 24, 2007 17:14:15 GMT -6
besides, even if offensive guys are "evil", you have to study their schemes to understand how they attack you. How am I going to stop the spread unless I first study and understand it? "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"---as the old adage goes Also, don't lock yourself into one scheme. Dead-T guys should learn about 5-wide shotgun........spread option guys should learn about the DW......case in point: the hybrid singlewing and spread teams (ala Flordia and Arkansas) I believe that once you "Get" something, you should press yourself to learn something ELSE in the off-season (even if you have no immediate need to use it). Sometimes, just checking out how the guys on the "other side of town" do things, can give you a new perspective on how to do things. which is why I ask all these dang "whats with the spread?" questions...just want to get a feel for how the spread gurus think and feel about their systems...what is it that they are looking to do and why? how?...helps me learn that part of the game , how to defense them too. |
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Post by dubber on Mar 24, 2007 17:20:29 GMT -6
helps me learn that part of the game , how to defense them too. Which is also why I ask you (and others) about the DW |
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Post by coachsky on Mar 24, 2007 18:10:58 GMT -6
[quote/]
i HEAR YA, and I am one who will NOT accept a head coaching job If I have administrators, boosters, parents or whoever dictating to me that we need to run their offense and not what I believe in. [/quote]
I don't think your commitment to the DW/46 is going to lock you out. I just might take longer.
I'm sure that some day you 'll be able to find a smaller high school with a poor track record that will allow you to come in and coach the DW/46 and then you'll be able to start a dynasty that will allow you further opportunities. You just have to wait for the right opportunity. There out there. Just keep developing a great track record where your at and keeping the admin happy.
I've seen coaches around here do that. They just had to wait for their shots. Right place, right time.
There are some examples around here of guys making the jump and they don't have your knowledge, passion or W_L record. They've been getting by for more than 10 years.
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Post by coachveer on Mar 24, 2007 20:16:41 GMT -6
Its funny...In the restaurant business. Any chef who only has a background in one style of cooking would never get the head job in a fine dinning establishment. They look for guys who have worked in all kinds of different places and then takes all of that knowledge to bring out something new.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 24, 2007 23:01:27 GMT -6
Coachsky, I like your philosophy. Well put.
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Post by CVBears on Mar 25, 2007 14:01:51 GMT -6
Its funny...In the restaurant business. Any chef who only has a background in one style of cooking would never get the head job in a fine dinning establishment. They look for guys who have worked in all kinds of different places and then takes all of that knowledge to bring out something new. Great point coach. That's why I'm here, trading tapes with people, reading posts from 2005, asking questions, throwing out ideas to get tweaked/rejected/stolen/etc., learning about systems I don't like/understand yet, so on and so forth. |
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Post by coachcalande on Mar 25, 2007 15:22:35 GMT -6
Hey man, Im all for learning about "different flavors" but its aweful tough to be really good at EVERYTHING. I do not want to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Recently at a varsity job interview someone asked me about changing systems if the talent showed we could run something else. i said that "I dont walk around carrying a phd in the spread, the triple option, the wing t, single wing, double wing, west coast , pro I and run and shoot" lol...You have to hang your hat on SOMETHING! I learn alot by seeing how others run the dw and other ball control offenses (power T, single wing for instance)...
If I stick to one thing( double wing) long enough I become an "expert" at it, know all of its strengths and weaknesses, add the subtle changes to it that make it that much more potent, understand how others attack it or defense it etc. we know what we need to work on each year and how to structure our practices etc. I have a tremendous luxury of working with 100s of coaches on their dw successes and Its a learning/teaching experience that makes me a better coach. I dont just break down my own 8-10 games a year but 1000s of games, seeing the same core plays over and over again against all kinds of defensive tactics and strategies...Its like "ADVANCED DOUBLE WING HONORS" or something... now, that doesnt in any way mean that I wont study other things, thatd be foolish...I also get to see my 46 Gambler defense against 100s of different offensive attacks...again, its like "ADVANCED 46 DEFENSE HONORS CLASS" ...anyhow, I think its very important for coaches to study all kinds of stuff every year to get better. Im a man to man guy but have been studying the 44 defense alot more this year with different zone concepts. I have also been looking at some run and shoot ideas and the spread single wing. I have just watched some of Darrin Slacks qb dvds and Tom Hermans wing-t camp on tape...always something to learn from someone.... Football is the best game ever and the best taught subject at any school! I love this game.
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Post by fbdoc on Mar 25, 2007 18:06:19 GMT -6
I think the majority of the coaches on this board - ones that have been around for awhile - feel the same way, namely we have our schemes that we feel "confident" about, maybe even sing their praises over other schemes we don't know as well. And at the same time, we also know that we need to continue learning. That's one of the great things about this profession - you can learn some new "secret" that helps you from a guy who runs a system that you would never run.
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dcwar
Sophomore Member
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Post by dcwar on Mar 25, 2007 20:49:53 GMT -6
I think it is critical to continue to learn any system because you will either have to do one of three things in the future: coach it, defeat it, stop it.
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Post by WTR on Mar 25, 2007 21:43:42 GMT -6
As a young coach I am trying my best to sponge in everything I can. But sometimes I feel overwhelmed trying to learn everything all at once. I guess things come with time, but I still cant help but feel like I am behind.
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Post by coachcoyote on Mar 25, 2007 22:50:37 GMT -6
Don't try to learn it all at once. You'll only succeed in failing to learn much of anything. Familiarize yourself with something new as often as you can. Think of it as a practice plan; learn the fundamentals, apply the knowledge, tweak it. Is it that simple? Heck no, but it's a simple approach that will get you headed in the right direction.
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Post by coachcalande on Mar 26, 2007 10:08:51 GMT -6
As a young coach I am trying my best to sponge in everything I can. But sometimes I feel overwhelmed trying to learn everything all at once. I guess things come with time, but I still cant help but feel like I am behind. I would suggest learning the "why you coach" part of the game first, that is , the part about people and relationships...most of us(especially me) spend 99% of our time on the xs and os and forget about the jimmies and joes and what really matters. Then once you have a real coaching philosophy it makes sense to learn something that will allow your kids a chance to compete while you are learning the game. I suggest power and play action...not all that tough to learn those things. Still takes time and study but if you can diagram your 5-6 bread and butter plays and the blocking schemes against any front, well, you have an offense!... |
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 26, 2007 11:27:32 GMT -6
In my opinion unless you are an unquestioned football genius, you should be open to new ideas and different types of football. You don't have to change what you run, but you can learn a lot from what you don't do.
Uncompromising, inflexible people don't make it far IMO.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 26, 2007 17:53:43 GMT -6
I do my best to stay well versed in a wide variety of offenses and defenses. I download playbooks, film, and anything else I can get my hands on. That's one thing I love about being a football coach; there's always something new to learn out there.
I think that you have to stay versed in a wide variety of schemes for a lot of reasons-
1. It's good to have a knowledge base when you walk into a job that involves an unfamiliar offense or defense.
2. Knowing the basics of several offensive and defensive schemes is A MUST when coordinating and offense or a defense.
3. Being well versed in a number of areas allows you to expand on your own philosophies.
4. It allows you to continually study football.
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 26, 2007 21:08:50 GMT -6
I see some people are uncompromising and inflexibge to running the Double tight football in a phonebooth, some absolutely hate it, hate it. they despise it. Inflexiblity exists everywhere. I see your point, but even someone like me that doesn't prefer to run double tight phone booth football sees the merits of it. Heck we even ran double tight wing last year around the goaline. We don't expand it much from there though. We did run it a little in short yardage situations as well i guess. Heck we even ran wedge a couple of times on 3rd or 4th and 1. So I guess I am speaking from experience, not that I have lot of that. |
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 27, 2007 7:20:57 GMT -6
I run this some: With lots of motion to a coverdale mesh look. Probably as much as you run the double tight stuff. Most SW guys have a spread look, not accurate to say they arent open to or run spread type stuff. But we also ran some of our base run stuff out of it as well, power, sweep, trap, wedge etc. ..................x...x..c...x....x....x..................................x x..............................x................................x ...........................x Our formation looked like this: .................x..x..x..c..x..x..x....................... ............................x...........x..................... .........................x....x Mostly we ran wedge, or OT lead. |
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