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Post by clintonb12 on May 30, 2007 9:11:41 GMT -6
If you were taking over a terrible program with a small enrollment what would you focus on more during the offseason: building strength or speed?
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Post by ajreaper on May 30, 2007 9:25:14 GMT -6
Do both- stronger athletes are going to be faster just by becoming stronger and working some specific speed training work in does not require that much additional time.
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Post by wingman on May 30, 2007 9:40:10 GMT -6
Both obviously but it's easier to make weak guys significantly stronger than make slow guys significantly faster.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 30, 2007 10:31:57 GMT -6
why would you have a program that neglected either? Is this possible? Any program with squats and cleans is going to improve speed. This isn't a video game where you apply points to improve attributes.
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Post by lochness on May 30, 2007 10:59:57 GMT -6
If the purpose of the question is to ask which ONE we would focus on if we could only focus on one, it would be STRENGTH...no doubt about it.
Much easier to make significant team strength gains than significant team speed gains.
The best way to improve your speed is to get fast kids to come out for the team. The strength part is a variable you as a coach have better and more direct control over.
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Post by Coach Huey on May 30, 2007 11:18:02 GMT -6
don't overlook "conditioned speed" ... i.e. the ability to run at or near max potential for extended bursts. can your 4.4 guy run at or near 4.4 more times (plays) than your 4.7 guy can run 4.7? harder to quantify, but a 'one shot wonder' does you little good as an every down player. a conditioned sprinter ... if it is slightly slower than the 'burner' may prove better in long haul (course of game/season) than the "track star"....
food for thought
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Post by coachd5085 on May 30, 2007 11:21:01 GMT -6
Huey...agree 100% here. The toughest conditioning test I ever saw was having the kids complete 20 40yd sprints..all must have been run in their max 40 time+ .5 seconds. You can't fake that.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 30, 2007 11:48:19 GMT -6
Strength first. Not only does a tough offseason instill determination and desire in the kids, it will allow them to get faster.
If you look at any decent s&c program, you will see that the focus starts with strength and eventually shifts to speed/movement specifics. It is impossible to be fast without a good low-body strength:bodyweight ratio.
***I think there is too much focus on changing stride length with all of these gadets and tools- the kid doesn't have a good stride because his low body is relatively weak and cannot generate enough force to maintain a decent stride. GET THE KID STRONGER***
Simple formula for speed
Increase strength without gaining huge amounts of mass= greater ability for speed.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 30, 2007 11:54:13 GMT -6
I think a better question would be would you concentrate more on weightlifting, or running/agilities/plyo if handcuffed by a limited amount of time and resources. The idea of focusing on either strength or speed is a bit absurd. Absolute strength? Explosive strength? Functional Strength? Linear speed? change of direction? All of these are entertwined in the sport of football.
I would say that I think trying to improve 40 times by working statitc starts, stride length/stride ratio drills would NOT be very important at a struggling program.
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Post by wingt74 on May 30, 2007 12:14:22 GMT -6
Both obviously but it's easier to make weak guys significantly stronger than make slow guys significantly faster. Agreed here. "speed" is mostly natural. Shaving even a 10th off of your 40 time is difficult Agility on the other hand (quickness off the ball, explosiveness, etc) can be trained. Exposiveness is the result of strength training and plyometrics in my book. |
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Post by jhanawa on May 30, 2007 13:02:16 GMT -6
Um, SPEED! Speed in space. Flame retardent suit is on, so here goes...LOL....   IMO, strength is Third in value. 1. Fundamentals 2. Speed 3. Strength For the most part, lifting is over rated, particuliarly bench press. Curls and the body building lifts are IMO worthless as a football lift. The only two lifts that I really preach about are POWER CLEANS and SQUATS, IMO these are the two lifts that directly relate to football, all of the others are of limited value. Yes its nice if all the kids bench big numbers and we encourage a well rounded workout, but I'll take great Power Cleans over bench any day. |
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hoard
Freshmen Member
Posts: 54
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Post by hoard on May 30, 2007 13:41:06 GMT -6
Strength.
As my HC says, "a players speed was determined when the sperm hit the egg." Can speed be improved? Yes, but not to the extent that strength can.
Having said that, I sure as He** wish I had a lot more speed. Now that our program is at a point where our strength levels are very high in our older guys, our team speed is awful. Unfortunately, that is what is most often exploited on Game Day!
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Post by Coach Huey on May 30, 2007 14:21:02 GMT -6
so ... one should focus their "speed" training on "conditioned speed" rather than "pure speed" .... and, we can ALL get in better shape, that has less to do with fast-twitch as it does with VO2 capacity ...
so, initial 'point' I was making earlier was to "speed" train by training for better recovery between plays, etc. to allow players to play at or near max speed (whatever that may be) for longer period of time
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Post by spreadattack on May 30, 2007 14:30:27 GMT -6
You may not be able to coach speed, but you can work on quickness.
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Post by coachbdud on May 30, 2007 18:54:54 GMT -6
you could easily do both, dont wate too much time liftingg, just get the essential stuff done,
Bench, Squat,Incline Deadlift, Power cleans military shrugs lunges
i break it up into upper and lower days, about an hour lift each day then 30 mins or so of speed training i use plyometrics agility ladder drills and mini hurdle drills, not necesarily improving overall speed but imrpoving agility quickness and balance
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Post by wingman on May 30, 2007 22:43:54 GMT -6
Coach,
When we say lifting, around here no one thinks curls. The gopsel on the lifting importance scale:
Full Back Squats - 10 ( front Squats included )
Cleans - 9
Snatch - 9
Bench / Kettle bell strength endurance lifts- 3
everything else - 2 or less
If your squat goes up significantly, you will get faster regardless of whether you have done any running technique training.
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Post by hoptions on May 31, 2007 8:10:16 GMT -6
How about developing POWER
POWER = weight moved over a distance in a specific amount of time.
Hoptions
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Post by PSS on May 31, 2007 8:36:50 GMT -6
I know that everyone has their own philosophy about this topic and there have been some great points brought up. In HS football I agree with Huey. Conditioned speed is key in football for play after play. Face it, it's difficult to knock 1 tenth off a timed 40. Take what is given you and refine it. Make the athlete more agile and flexible. The easier it is for him to move the better the athlete.
And that goes right into the weight room. Your cleans and squats develop those quads ands glutes that are essential in being more athletic. Not only that the Cleans are developing Explosiveness that I will take any day. Plus it develops Mental Toughness that you can't get in other areas of your program. It takes some guts to pull that weight, especially when some of your athletes start loading the bar.
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Post by bulldogoption on May 31, 2007 11:48:32 GMT -6
In football you have to stop the run. The runs that will kill you quickest are the runs up the middle. If you get gutted left and right all night it doesn't matter how fast you are. So, therefore, I vote for strength. It will help you defend the run first and foremost.
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