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Post by touchdowng on Jul 29, 2007 18:57:02 GMT -6
At summer camp many of the coaches got into a long discussion about "teaching" offensive linemen how to hold legally (so that you won't get caught). Most of us know that holding could be called on most plays. All defensive lineman complain about being held - yet it's hardly called unless it's on the edge in plain sight of the official.
Here is the question that was open for debate - The technique (the art of holding) works, so, do you teach it? It's against the rules but it's not enforced and teams will use this to their advantage.
What do you do?
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Post by khalfie on Jul 29, 2007 19:06:26 GMT -6
Holding's not against the rules...
Holding outside of the body frame is against the rules.
Do it the right way, and its not illegal.
Similarly, hitting a WR isn't against the rules.
Hitting a WR while the ball is in the air is illegal.
Do it at the right time, and its not illegal.
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Post by airraider on Jul 29, 2007 19:12:48 GMT -6
we teach to grab for the arm pits and take what you get..
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Post by coachcathey on Jul 29, 2007 19:55:34 GMT -6
"Guns in the holsters" is legal.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 29, 2007 20:09:23 GMT -6
Holding's not against the rules... Holding outside of the body frame is against the rules. Do it the right way, and its not illegal. Similarly, hitting a WR isn't against the rules. Hitting a WR while the ball is in the air is illegal. Do it at the right time, and its not illegal. We don't agree all the time, but this is spot on. |
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Post by knighter on Jul 29, 2007 20:23:05 GMT -6
here is me staying quiet on this issue
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 29, 2007 20:29:20 GMT -6
If any of you Double Wingers say you "teach" holding, I'm going to report you immediately to Hugh Wyatt. Having said that, we teach LEGAL blocking techniques, ostensibly so our guys won't have to hold... but if it means a sack, we say "Hold em!"
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Post by coach79 on Jul 29, 2007 21:18:46 GMT -6
I teach the steering wheel. Works for some kids but not all. to each his own as long as he does his job and does it right.
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Post by CVBears on Jul 30, 2007 0:28:20 GMT -6
we hold until the cows come home, inside the frame. which is also another reason why we teach to punch/block with hands rather than shoulders
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Post by coachveer on Jul 30, 2007 6:53:12 GMT -6
we hold until the cows come home, inside the frame. which is also another reason why we teach to punch/block with hands rather than shoulders To be honest I think that most team teach their OL that very thing. |
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Post by tog on Jul 30, 2007 7:00:53 GMT -6
we hold until the cows come home, inside the frame. which is also another reason why we teach to punch/block with hands rather than shoulders To be honest I think that most team teach their OL that very thing. how we do it and head slap all you want |
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Jul 30, 2007 7:22:12 GMT -6
We hold within the frame with our arms straight ahead. You cannot hold within the frame and be in bad position. If you are in bad position, your arms will be extended away from the front of your body at an angle and should be called for holding. So either you quickly need to get into position, or you will get flagged.
As far as head slapping goes, you can try and teach it, but they better be good and quick at it because if they are slightly unsure, while they are exposing their chest (and likely standing up to get a good angle on my OL's head) we will be putting him into the ground. Also, if you connect once, you will likely provide all the motivation my OL needs to crush the defender the next play. Holding may piss the DL off, but nothing pisses a football player off like a shot to the head.
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Post by coachjim on Jul 30, 2007 8:47:32 GMT -6
Head slaps, punch & cup blocks, and illegal holding...
Pfft.
We were taught to throw dirt in their eyes in the seventies. And how to do the OJ move...
Not that I ever did either one, but we sure knew how... I remember it like it was yesterday.
Talk about lazy... with sand, you don't even have to move and it works every time like a charm. Ah, the seventies... when our cheerleaders put gum in the other cheerleaders hair during the state championship. Three QB's got carted off the field, and couldn't have been older than ten..
Sorry, when I read the threads about cheating and those of the moral majority... it amazes me that those thing used to occur... how times have changed... and believe it or not, for the better.
Like it or not.
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Post by los on Jul 31, 2007 10:57:34 GMT -6
You know dcohio, I tend to agree with you! Last time we had this discussion, I said pretty much the same thing you did, and I was coaching the o-line, well, d-line too for that matter. I understand clutching "inside the framework", may not get a call (especially inside the tackles) and I don't think any less of a guy who teach's it. I'm just not gonna! Somehow, (in my old fashioned football brain), it promotes a "bad case of sorry"! Cmon, biggins move your feet, get position, get in shape! Again, just my "out of date" opinion lol! los
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 31, 2007 11:21:58 GMT -6
Do your defensive linemen grab cloth, lock out and shed?  ? HOLDING??? Nope, not if within the framework. Same idea, inside hands win, leverage wins. Lose the body position relationship to the framework or slide the hands outside, and the flag flys.... |
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Post by los on Jul 31, 2007 11:53:41 GMT -6
Thats a good point jh, gotta work for both! Technically speaking, if you grab cloth(either side) and are combo blocking or pursuing=I gotta let go 1st before I can move (wastes time to me), the other thing I don't like is =you kinda lose your "feel" of your opponents weight shifts with a really tight grip. (tougher to reposition your feet). Again, just my own quirky opinion lol!
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 31, 2007 14:37:55 GMT -6
Los, it really does depend on the type of block, like your saying with the combo....On vertical combo's, each man should have a hand on a number, with their off hand on the hip but not closed and eyes through the defender to the LB. Holding should never occur in this position, however, when the blockers encounter lateral movement by the down defender is when issues arise, its the "take" over aspect, particuliarly on outside zone type schemes where the inside blocker is taking over the block and trying to work his body into position as the outside blocker comes off to the LB, that the holding occurs. Probably the two most common "holding calls" are by the EMOL on a stretch/sweep play and by an Oline in pass protection that leans forward and gets ripped or swam against. Then holding is a survival instict...  as in if this dude hits my QB my coach is going to remove 10lbs of my hide....  |
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Post by los on Jul 31, 2007 14:47:45 GMT -6
Yup, I agree jh. Slow feet/poor footwork/getting tired late in the game= grabby hands
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Post by phantom on Jul 31, 2007 14:55:59 GMT -6
If any of you Double Wingers say you "teach" holding, I'm going to report you immediately to Hugh Wyatt. Having said that, we teach LEGAL blocking techniques, ostensibly so our guys won't have to hold... but if it means a sack, we say "Hold em!" Couldn't agree more, Doc. I'm not in favor of cheating but football is different from other games and the OL is different from other positions. People get hit in football and OL are responsible for the health and well-being of other players. If it comes down to getting our QB greased and maybe sent to the hospital I say "Grab on". Some have discussed having the DL retaliate by head slapping or whatever. I played on the OL. We get hit, kicked, punched, or whatever on every play. OK, so it hurts. Everything that an OL does hurts. |
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? HOLDING??? Nope, not if within the framework. Same idea, inside hands win, leverage wins. Lose the body position relationship to the framework or slide the hands outside, and the flag flys....
as in if this dude hits my QB my coach is going to remove 10lbs of my hide.... 