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Post by raider7342 on Apr 29, 2006 20:48:02 GMT -6
when have some of you guys made the decision to leave a school. i have been at same school 12 years (only place i have been) but lately not sure i am making the difference i should. only one winning season since i took over (although have moved to 4-6 or better over last 5 , much better than the 0-10, 2-8 we were pulling before i took over) assistants have been really questioning my program. havent been able to get out some of the atheletes we need (they all want to be basketball and baseball stars). we just cant seem to top the mountain and make the playoffs. just been wondering lately. thanks, raider
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 29, 2006 21:10:03 GMT -6
Tough situation, and one that I have experience with. Does the admin publicly and privately support you? What are the assistants questioning? Questioning is okay if done professionally and in the confines of the coaches office. If it being done outside those doors then somebody has to go. I'm sure you are doing everything you can. Some places are just "resource poor". For whatever reason they do not have the kids available to win. Are you working them in the strength program? What about parental support? There are a lot of factors involved here. Is it fun for you? I mean with all the losing and the assistants questioning you is it fun to coach there?
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Post by airman on Apr 29, 2006 21:48:25 GMT -6
as I have heard say, the grass is not always greener on the otherside of the septic tank.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 29, 2006 21:49:14 GMT -6
grass may be greener........but it still tastes like the same 'ol grass
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Post by bulldog on Apr 30, 2006 0:14:02 GMT -6
What's your goal? Winning championships or teaching young men? I would suggest that you measure your success by your impact on your player's lives - not wins and losses.
Maybe you can make some changes to your program to instill more fun - for you and the kids.
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Post by bigdaddyd on Apr 30, 2006 1:43:52 GMT -6
What's your goal? Winning championships or teaching young men? I would suggest that you measure your success by your impact on your player's lives - not wins and losses. Maybe you can make some changes to your program to instill more fun - for you and the kids. After a while that $hit gets a little played out bulldog. When you put everything you have into ANYTHING, you hope it PAYS OFF. I understand the turning boys to man analogy and all that other stuff, but when is enough- enough, and when do you stop celebrating mediocrity... Sometimes it's best to move on... best for yourself (sanity) and the program (hope)... 12 years is a long time... maybe it's time for CHANGE... just my opinion...
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Post by kcbazooka on Apr 30, 2006 5:59:32 GMT -6
when the new superintent hires the coach from his old school - makes him asst. principal - and then makes him your assistant football coach...
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Post by blb on Apr 30, 2006 6:31:33 GMT -6
Change can be good, raider.
About 12 years ago I was in a similar situation. The program was stagnant and so was I (after nine years as HC at that school, 16 total). I quit and worked as an assistant coach at a local college for four years.
Had a lot of fun, learned some more about coaching and football from a different perspective.
Then I was ready to get back to high school and run a program again. Today I have a really good job at a large HS. But even if I didn't become a HC again I got re-energized and enjoyed being an assistant in the roles I had. The teaching, camaraderie, and competing were very fulfilling.
My advice is to see if you can find a program (in your area if you can't give up your teaching job), perhaps with a head coach you already know and respect, where you see yourself fitting in and making a contribution.
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Post by bulldog on Apr 30, 2006 10:34:54 GMT -6
What's your goal? Winning championships or teaching young men? I would suggest that you measure your success by your impact on your player's lives - not wins and losses. Maybe you can make some changes to your program to instill more fun - for you and the kids. After a while that $hit gets a little played out bulldog. When you put everything you have into ANYTHING, you hope it PAYS OFF. I understand the turning boys to man analogy and all that other stuff, but when is enough- enough, and when do you stop celebrating mediocrity... Sometimes it's best to move on... best for yourself (sanity) and the program (hope)... 12 years is a long time... maybe it's time for CHANGE... just my opinion... Maybe I'm alone in my thinking, but Big D, I think you need some perspective. While you may call building young men, '$hit', I call it noble. If you are putting 'everything you have' into coaching, then clearly you must be sacrificing your family, job and - whatever else. No one said anything about celebrating mediocrity. I meant that when it is time for self-refelction you must remember a couple of things: a) coaches make ZERO plays, b) you don't control your talent, c) you don't control your opponents, and d) your schemes, desire to win, etc. will not guarantee wins. Raider's teams may have achieved FAR ABOVE what they might have with an average coach. It can be very humbling to coach at a school where you have the second most talented team on the field every week. If you don't enjoy the day-to-day involvement with the kids, you may lose your perspective and turn into the 'a$$hole screamer' coach that we have all seen and heard. It makes me cringe to see a coach verbally attacking kids when he doesn't get the result that he wants. If you want to make the HS game ALL about the winning, maybe you are coaching at the wrong level. Just curious, would you say the same thing to a youth coach? Having coached in college, I agree with blb, maybe a new challenge might be good for you, Raider. If you move up, you will find that the game is much more competitive, much more serious, and much more time-consuming. You will also find that players are treated much more like a commodity. "Four years of football are calculated to breed in the average man more of the ingredients of success in life than almost any academic course he takes." - Knute Rockne
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 30, 2006 13:51:40 GMT -6
to answer the mans question...you cant say you cant make a difference any more til you at least try to win there with something different...ie the double wing. IM serious, maybe you dont have the athletes you need to make the offense youre running now go, but maybe you are sitting on state championship double wing material. please, i believe in what I just typed. Raider, Let me know if youd want help making a dramatic change in your philosophy...never know. beats quitting.
the definition of insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results,,,you might consider a change.
_
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Post by mikewdw on Apr 30, 2006 16:18:16 GMT -6
thanks for the opinions so far. i teach science 5 per. a day. only in weight room one period a day. baseball coach does weight room during school rest of day. we just started spring and two starters from last years team arent playing. that really bummed me out. i thought we had taught those guys how to stay with it last year (had a really tough beginning to the year, went 1-5 before finishing 4-6) both want to concentrate on another sport. i really dont want to move up or even go to another school. i still love working with the kids although the other crap i have to do is becoming more of a chore (tons of grass cutting). i used to love comraderie with the other coaches but with assistants now i feel like i am being judged every day. i have never asked them to do any of the crap work, only coach, and feel like they think i am a sorry coach because i dont have every film broken down and every minute of the season scheduled out. we have switched to the spread with a descent qb from last year. we are in a really tough league. 4 of the teams we play in our league have played for a state title or won it the last 6 years. administration is somewhat supportive but principal wont be there more than a year or two more. i want to be seen as a successful coach of course but i also want our kids to finally taste some of that success we always tell them will come if they just work hard. i guess all good coaches must doubt what they are doing sometimes. as for making a difference in the kids lives, we try. i dont give daily sermons but we always talk about the basics of hard work, being accountable etc. i would love any ideas you guys have on that end. i think we could do much more in that area. thanks for the ears, raider
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 30, 2006 16:53:52 GMT -6
DELEGATE. Let the assts start to do some of the day to day tasks. Empower them to help raise the program bar.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 30, 2006 17:24:45 GMT -6
A lot of good opinions on here... so I will add mine: If you look forward to going to work every day, love working with the players there, feel that with a few minor changes you can be "right there", then I'd stay.
If you dread going to work, feel there are too many changes needed that you are not in a position to change, then I'd seriously look around.
I kept a job too long because it was at a big school, we were always competitive (reg. season: 6-4, 7-3 4 times, 8-2). Things never were bad enough on the field to warrant me leaving and NOT have people think I was crazy. In the end I did leave- thus proving to the world that I'm nuts, but basically restoring my sanity.
I'm not going to get in to the extensive list of reasons my attitude was terrible there- it didn't start that way- I was pumped to get that job in the first place- but a lot of things happened along the way (short list: BB players not out, no weights class, no willingness to hire coaches in the building, problem parents, and I really do not like living in a city, etc.).
I do agree with bulldog, it is noble to work with young men and the most important thing is changing lives- but if you are truly a competitive person, as most of us are on here, you want to be in a position where you have an opportunity to win. There are some schools/situations where that will not happen without wholesale changes from an administrative or community perspective.
For what it is worth, I wouldn't necessarily give up on being a head coach, nor would I give up on my scheme. Sometimes a fresh start can put the passion back in the job.
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Post by bulldog on Apr 30, 2006 17:47:14 GMT -6
I totally agree with coach5085. It sounds as if you are making it too easy on your assistants. While they will never work quite as hard, or care quite as much, you should get more out of them. If you give them more responsibility, you can change the mentality from the finger pointing you mention.
Having been on teams that have run the spread, double wing, Wing-T, Veer, Pro and West Coast offenses, I would not switch from the spread. IMO it gives the offense significant advantages that are not found in most schemes. (Sorry Coach Calande, but I absolutely hated the double wing).
I would ask your coaches to start breaking down films - right now. I would go back thru the film from the last two years and break down each opponent. I would assign each coach a specific task for the break down. When you go thru your film in-season, it makes it much easier if you have this work already done. Then you just need to update. If you need to make any adjustments to your base defense, you should make them now. You should also have each coach study the offense and determine what worked, and what didn't (and why). We do this each year on our team, and if you need some specific ideas on how to get the most out of this exercise, just let me know.
One other thing - you mention sermons. I think you know that these are not really effective. However, enthusiasm from your assistants can be very effective. If you have ever been on the field with a college staff, and you have seen how they approach each practice, maybe this is something you might want to emulate. Confidence can be contagious.
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Post by superpower on May 1, 2006 5:44:42 GMT -6
I have to agree with blutarsky. I am leaving a miserable situation, but I will take my offensive and defensive schemes with me. Don't give up on what you know. As so many have stated in other threads, it's not the Xs and Os; it's the Jimmies and Joes.
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Post by knighter on May 1, 2006 5:55:29 GMT -6
still counting the wins with average talent running the doublewing (only 52 in 6 years here bulldog)
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2006 7:20:09 GMT -6
Guys are hitting the nail on the head when they say to get more out of the assistants. If they're truly on your side they'll work hard doing what you ask. If they aren't on your side they won't want to put in the effort, you'll know, you can deal with it appropriately.
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Post by knighter on May 1, 2006 7:37:18 GMT -6
I think when the thoughts of leaving hit it is a good time for some self reflection. Organize your thoughts into 5 areas where things can be improved. I organize my thoughts in the following areas on a year by year basis.
1. Off season player development (we have tweaked things a bit this year) 2. Coaching staff development (we continually look for ways to improve what we do) 3. Support staff development (have to admit this is an area where I need more work at the moment) 4. Increasing partcipation 5. Relationship building
I think by reflecting upon these areas you will not only see the things you can improve on in your program, but you will also find you tend to be doing more things right than you give yourself credit for. Success in a program should not be judged soley on wins and losses, but should be based upon the type of young men you are helping to shape and mold. Are they becoming productive members of society? Are they continuing their education? Are they becoming quality citizens? These are the things that I think are most important, a heckuva lot more important than and win/loss record. I do have to admit however that I hate losing as well.
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Post by blb on May 1, 2006 9:47:29 GMT -6
In his original post, raider said the assistants are questioning the program. I'm afraid at this point if he tries to ask more of them now it could create additional strain and tension. They may see it as trying to lay off some of his responsibilities on them.
Twelve years in one place is a long time these days. Even if you're doing and saying all the right things, unless you're winning, the kids stop listening to you.
You may be helping young men become better adults but after awhile it's no fun for anybody without the rewards for all the hard work.
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Post by bulldog on May 1, 2006 10:07:43 GMT -6
I didn't say the double wing didn't work, I just said that I hated it. My background in college was throwing the football to open the run game. I just don't like an offense that counts on (3) 4 yard plays to get a first. And then having to do that over and over and over and over to get down the field. I also wouldn't run a 4 corners, slow-down offense in basketball. It's just my preference. We now run the spread, which is the 100%, complete opposite of DW. We were #3 in our section in offense last year. And we have below average talent.
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Post by coachcalande on May 1, 2006 10:24:14 GMT -6
I didn't say the double wing didn't work, I just said that I hated it. My background in college was throwing the football to open the run game. I just don't like an offense that counts on (3) 4 yard plays to get a first. And then having to do that over and over and over and over to get down the field. I also wouldn't run a 4 corners, slow-down offense in basketball. It's just my preference. We now run the spread, which is the 100%, complete opposite of DW. We were #3 in our section in offense last year. And we have below average talent. NAH, WE RELY ON 4 2.5 YARD PLAYS TO GET A FIRST
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Post by knighter on May 1, 2006 10:48:20 GMT -6
so you like it when other teams have their offense on the field? (being sarcastic bulldog). I know there is more than 1 way to do things. I prefer to keep your offenese on the sidelines watching my team put together 13 and 17 play drives to score amd chewing up clock.
best team we played in the regular season last fall had the ball 5 times in the game, scored 2 of the 5 and lost. (turned it over the other 3).
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Post by blb on May 1, 2006 11:10:16 GMT -6
Why does EVERY THREAD on this site become a referendum on the double wing?!
Maybe some of us less enlightened gridiron gurus should go infest doublewingonline.com.
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moose18
Junior Member
"If it didn't matter who won or lost, they wouldn't keep score"
Posts: 284
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Post by moose18 on May 1, 2006 11:16:48 GMT -6
thank you blb, I was just thinking the same thing
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Post by knighter on May 1, 2006 11:18:12 GMT -6
blb.
feel free, lot's of good info there (and by the way I do not consider you to be unenlightened, merely a non dw'er is all) i have gotten quite a few good ideas from non-dw coaches (including you) show me where it became a referendum on dw, merely stated that we have had some success running dw with average talent...didn't say everyone should convert. my 2nd post to bulldog was in fun, are you against having fun blb?
when someone says something in the way of i hate the dw or the dw does not work, why is it so bad for me to defend it?
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Post by blb on May 1, 2006 11:31:46 GMT -6
Get your satire detector up, knighter. I too enjoy having fun. As I said before, you guys are so easy to stir up.
Don't blame you for defending what you believe in. It's been my experience that if you block and execute, any scheme will work.
I have to smile at all of us who say our scheme is an equalizer for "average" or "lesser" talent. If we all have average or below human beings playing for us, who has the above average or really good players? And what are they running?
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Post by knighter on May 1, 2006 11:38:13 GMT -6
all the real talent goes to the private schools who can recruit blb
and you are right, execution of the fundamentals is the absolute key to success
team that blocks and tackles the best generally wins a lot of games
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Post by tog on May 1, 2006 11:41:44 GMT -6
lets not get stupid with this
knighter has done good things at his program running the dw, just like many others have at other programs running the airraid
its what you can get your kids to execute
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Post by knighter on May 1, 2006 11:57:03 GMT -6
it's all good tog baby i was defending something that wasn't meant to defend (in other words I took it wrong) me and blb are good
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Post by blb on May 1, 2006 14:44:52 GMT -6
You are correct, sir.
Preach on, my brotha.
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