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Post by donaldduck on Apr 18, 2007 9:15:11 GMT -6
Heres the deal, guys:
I'm currently a varsity coach at a small 2A school in TX (195) and have been a freshman coach at a big 4A (1900) and jh coach at a medium 3A (700). I want to get back in the big school setting for various reasons. My question is how long is too long at a small school until the bosses won't consider me at a big school? I don't want to get trapped into being a "small school coach" because I haven't been at a big school!
What are your thoughts on the subject? Especially the head coaches on the board.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 18, 2007 9:56:03 GMT -6
I think a lot will depend on the person hiring.
I was a small school (1A) head coach.
I was completely ignored by most schools... except for one 5A school, that hired me as the HC.
I then committed "career suicide", got in to administration/coaching back at the 1A level.
I've looked at some jobs since my return to 1A... I seem to get ignored by about half (and some that ignore are from the "bad" football schools), but have had some opportunities... mostly from the bigger schools.
In other words... I don't know... but a lot will depend on the person (HC, AD, principal, Sup., etc.) who is hiring.
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Post by tog on Apr 18, 2007 10:09:43 GMT -6
duck
I still does come down to who you know and who knows you, and if those people know you know your stuff, you know?
anyhow, I have found here in Texas at least that to get a smaller school HC job, it is probably a little better to come from a winning smaller school. Small town hiring people don't want someone coming in and using their place as a stepping stone to get back up the A's in classification. For 3a sized schools on up, there is a difference in the complexity of the football. This is not a slam on 1a-3a coaches by any means as I have been there and i think being at the smaller schools makes you a better coach by far, as you have to deal with many more issues with depth, hiding kids that can't really play, juggling practice schedules and so forth. 4a and 5a ball in Texas is more complex, simply for the fact that most of the 4a teams and 5a teams do not have to go both ways. They can spend more time on their schemes. Also, the coordinators (at least at good places) usually get a coordinator period to work on stuff, and another period to actually go and work with the jr hi feeder programs so the kids coming through already know the basics and they can sprinkle more and more window dressing onto the schemes as the foundation is solid.
All in all, if your goal is to become a 3a and up Head coach, the best route in my mind is to stay up in the A's, unless you land at a perennial 2a powerhouse that can win state multiple times (cough cough tatum cough cough)
You have made a good enough name with the people in my network to be able to climb out of the smaller classifications if you need/want to later. I also know of a 1a dc this year that went to a 5a dc this next year. He knows a guy. That guy knows he knows football like crazy and will do a good job. As long as you take care of your business and you have any kind of talent at all, then you should be ok.
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Post by kloranc on Apr 18, 2007 10:10:16 GMT -6
I think you have to be prepared to take assistant jobs to get into the big school setting from a small school. I was a HC at a small (1A) school for seven years. Now I am a DC at a big (5A) school. Even though I had been a head coach, I still had to prove myself all over again. There is definitely some bias against small school coaches out there, especially by coaches who have never coached at the lower levels!
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 18, 2007 19:32:54 GMT -6
tog's comments are very true - its very often WHO you know. At the same time, winning says a lot about who YOU are. Coaching at a program that has won a lot of games, made the playoffs, been to the finals, etc. gives you credibility that is hard to come by even coaching at a hire level. If the job is "wired" then you don't have a chance no matter who you are, but if they are really looking for a good coach, then someone who was 27-3 at a 2-A school is going to be a better candidate than a guy who was 3-27 at a 4-A school...usually.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 18, 2007 23:18:17 GMT -6
I think you have to be prepared to take assistant jobs to get into the big school setting from a small school.
Not necessarily. I moved from a 1A HC to a 5A HC. As doc said, record will factor in, so does who you know. Also if your current program has noteriety... or if the state you coach in does (I went to CO from Nebraska.... Many of those in CO felt HS football was better in NE, mainly because that was when Nebraska was winning national championships at the college level. Totally unrelated...but that did have some impact). I would imagine going from Texas, Florida, Georgia, California to...anywhere else, a guy could move from 1A to 4/5 A as a HC.
Tog has a pretty good assessment of the differences between the levels... and a lot of times those that hire might be more concerned with your ability to manage 200 players and 14-15 coaches than they will care about Xs and Os
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 19, 2007 17:19:26 GMT -6
Nice point senator - it's not just the level or sophistication of 5A football vs 2A, but the experience of managing a large program with several levels, lots of coaches, more parents, a bigger booster club, greater press coverage ... the list goes on. Yes winning is very important, but showing you are aware / able to manage all the tasks that go with the higher level is also important.
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Post by airman on Apr 19, 2007 17:33:45 GMT -6
I am not from texas but it seems that in texas you get typecast so to speak based on the level you coach. in wisconsin I guess you do not see that as much. not as much moving around. people who want to be at small schools are usually there for a reason. they like the small school community, they hunt,fish, snowmobile or atv. I have never coached at a small school. aslways a suburb school.
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Post by donaldduck on Apr 23, 2007 11:43:01 GMT -6
Airman you're right. That's why I'm trying to get into the bigger schools before it's too late. Here's a question: I have a friend...yeah a friend... that's it... who works at a less than stellar small school (12 wins in the last 3 years) and there's an opportunity to go to a larger less than stellar school (same number of wins). My...I MEAN HIS! HIS!...goal is to be a larger school (3a or 4a) DC. Both are nice communities and the wife is on board either way. All other things equal, which is a step in the right direction?
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Post by flycoach on Apr 23, 2007 13:45:04 GMT -6
That is a very difficult dilemma. I am in a similar type of situation. In my opinion what generally happens is that schools with similar records the smaller school is "easier" to turn around the program and put together some winning seasons to get you noticed and move you to a bigger program. Usually bigger schools have difficulty turning things around for several reasons: 1. Politics within the school: -We all know of a BIG school that plays in a league of BIGGER schools and insists on running the Power-I when the other team is BIGGER and STRONGER every year. Common sense would say "you need to use some sort of deception on offense." I always hear on here, "coach what you know." Great, but if their bigger and more athletic than you year after year and you insist on running the ball up the middle or going 5 wide you MAY go to the playoffs every once in a while and if your OK with that good for you. 2. Coaches at these schools sometimes have inherited their positions and their is very little movement within the coaching ranks. A Head Coach will leave but the guy they bring in seems to keep the old assistants. Have you ever talked one of the assistants of 10 plus years and heard, "yeah we are trying this new thing I saw URLACHER do....." I think these are the two main factors in why BIG schools in a lot of peoples area can not win. In small schools you can usually remain competitive year after year with whatever you run. If someone sets up shop in a program for five years he can do great things. Get involved in the youth program and the community and before you know it you will have parents WANTING their kids to play for you. Everyone wants to move UP the coaching ranks but I am on year 2 of 5 and it would take a SWEET offer to leave where I'm at. I am an offensive coordinator and here's my demands: 1. Head Coach, must be able to communicate with him DUH  2. Leave my offense alone. I AM ALWAYS up for suggesstions and football discussion (I live for that ;D) 3. What are the school demographics. Am I walking into the coaching graveyard? The main thing to remember when moving up is that you don't have really the luxury of time. When I walk in I want to be able to assist the team in winning right away. Bigger program bigger expectations. I'm out of breath now............Good Luck Coach! |
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