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Post by neale32 on Aug 4, 2005 12:07:13 GMT -6
What sort of conditioning test do any of you coaches run at your programs?
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Post by amikell on Aug 4, 2005 17:25:26 GMT -6
16 80 yd sprints with 35 sec rest between each
Required times for each sprint vary by position:
DL/OL - 16 secs
LB/FB - 13 secs
WR/SB/DB/QB - 11 secs
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Post by Split50 on Aug 4, 2005 18:44:12 GMT -6
question, amikell. What if they don't make the time? What happens?
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Post by phantom on Aug 4, 2005 19:33:48 GMT -6
We've been fortunate enough that all of the players who are regulars have taken a very active part in our conditioning program. Because of that we don't believe that any test is necessary.
Split 50's question is a good one. Personally, I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water. We have some offensive linemen who would have a problem- wait a minute, who am I kidding- who'd NEVER pass a running test. They can block, though.
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Post by amikell on Aug 4, 2005 19:56:59 GMT -6
If they make 21 out of 24 summer workouts, then they don't have to take it. We only have 3 that will be exempt. If they don't pass they'll have to run it each day of camp until they do, or the end of camp, whichever comes 1st. They'll run it either in between practices or after the 2nd practice. I have't decided which yet. any thoughts? I have also thought about adjusting either the times or the rest times for the sprints during the camp week. I'm not set on how to do this exactly though. Also, this is a very makeable test if the kids have been running all summer, but as you said phantom some of us big boys couldn't pass. That's why I have the clause about summer workouts.
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Post by tog on Aug 4, 2005 20:08:50 GMT -6
for the hs level, my question is why?
Some of those kids are never going to make prescribed times, some of those same kids can contribute in some way, even at the scout level, there are more positive ways to get kids in shape than this idea
just my opinion, if you NEED to cut some people for whatever reason, then I can totally understand it
otherwise, it just seems like it is more headaches than it is worth
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Post by Split50 on Aug 5, 2005 4:24:19 GMT -6
So when camp ends, you have only 1 or 2 lineman who have met the criteria, I repeat my question; what now? I think you will still have to have 5 linemen to play.
I think it is a good idea to check on your players' progress/conditioning, but it is very difficult at the high school level to have many consequences. If that stud 6'3" 285lb. D1 lineman doesn't pass the test, you're not going to play him?
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Post by coachgrizz on Aug 5, 2005 6:49:40 GMT -6
Just wondering why you chose 80 yards sprints? Rarely in game situations would an 80 yard sprint be necessary....IMHO much more important that they win the five yard race.
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 5, 2005 8:24:34 GMT -6
not to be cynical here, but i don't know of a time when any player has to put a 400 lb player on his shoulders and squat him either, but we make our players do squats. Why do we ask kickers to bench press? when does that come into play during football?
point is, you have to train the body to be in a certain condition. why not cardiovascular as well? why not train the body to sprint longer distances? conditioning makes for better overall athletes.
i'm not advocating the test that is being mentioned here. i'm not advocating training players to do senseless things. only saying that the argument about "they don't run 80 yds, etc." doesn't seem to be the "valid" point when disagreeing with the conditioning methods of other coaches.
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Post by phantom on Aug 5, 2005 9:06:42 GMT -6
Although I generally believe that a conditioning test with consequences isn't necessary for HS, I think that Coach Mikell may be doing the right thing for his situation. He's at a private school that has not had a lot of success in the past and he's had a hard time selling the offseason program to his upperclassmen. Exempting players who have been working in the conditioning program while providing consequences to those who don't makes sense in his situation. It's an investment in the future.
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Post by PowerDown on Aug 5, 2005 10:29:11 GMT -6
A conditioning test is a necassary evil sometimes depends on the situation. I did it for another sport when I became head coach but changed my philosophy over the years. My problem was that the players became more focused and worried about the test than the sport. Seemed like we lost some excitement for the first day of practice. Now I put more responsibility on them in the off season with some good old pychological warfare. I tell them that my practice schedules are not set in stone, if they come to practice the first day in good shape then we have to do less conditioning as far as sprints are concerned and we can do more sport specific drills to fine tune them into game shape. Told my lineman the same thing when I took over, that my individual time for them is broken down into 4 quarters during camp. How many of those quarters we will use to get them into playing shape is up to them.
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Post by amikell on Aug 5, 2005 11:06:17 GMT -6
Phantom, thanks for the support. In response to split50 and others, if they don't make the test by the end of camp, then nothing else happens. By running the test every day they ahve shown commitment to the team. Is it punishment to have them run the test everyday, yes. However, they are well aware of what to do in order to exempt the test. Are there better tests, I'm sure there are, this just happens to be the one that we use. As phantom said, we have not had much success here in the past, I'm trying to get them to make one form of a commitment or another. As I said above, it is a very passable test, if you are in shape and have been working all summer, be it in our weight and conditioning program or on your own. If we had a solid commitment of 80% of our players or more, I probably wouldn't have the test, but I don't. Will this keep some people away? Yeah I'm sure it will/does. Howeever, if it does happen to be a d-1 ability player who won't do the work or commit to the team, then do you really want that on your team? I say no.
Guys this is all my two bits, and I know that each of you knows FAR more than I do. I'm too young to know too much. I just think this is the best thing for us. I greatly appreciate all the feedback and criticism you guys offer. How else can we grow as coaches?
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Post by tog on Aug 5, 2005 11:49:04 GMT -6
mikell
it's not about age or how much someone knows
just things that people think based on situations we have been in
situations are different all over
great discussion
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Post by Split50 on Aug 5, 2005 18:27:48 GMT -6
amikell, I didn't mean my statements as a criticism of your program. I certainly believe we, as coaches, should do everything we can to have our kids ready to play, physically and mentally.
We also do the summer condition program and expect our players to attend a certain number of those sessions. In fact, one of our captains has been removed as a captain because he did not make the minimum number of workouts.
I can assure you that we have just come into a situation that is as bad as it gets. This team is 2-48 over the last 5 years and is currently 0-30 going into this season. We are committed to turning the program around and are insisting that the kids be as committed. Those that aren't won't be with us long.
I agree that you must make it tough in order to turn the corner and create a winning environment.
Good luck to you, amikell.
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Post by amikell on Aug 5, 2005 20:28:22 GMT -6
split50,
first off, no offense taken, and criticism is how we all grow. if we don't question what we do at least a little, then what we do means little. what are some things that you are doing to turn things around? to make a long story short, I think I got this job too young, right out of college, and just this past season figured out the "true" meaning of HEAD COACH. I've fine tuned how we run things and am always looking for help. again, thanks for all the discussion.
tog, i believe experience = knowledge. if you have been around more programs, kids, years, ....etc. then you know more than me. Know what I mean?
Who needs clinics when we have this site, right? =)
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Post by tog on Aug 5, 2005 20:31:02 GMT -6
this is an allday/allnight clinic
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Post by amikell on Aug 5, 2005 20:33:27 GMT -6
yeah, it is.
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Post by falcon66 on Aug 5, 2005 21:49:56 GMT -6
this is a great I want to weigh in and say we also do a conditioning test that consists of 3 300 yard shuttles with three minutes rest between them. Line man and backs have seperate times as well as jv and varsity.We make the times makeable but not easy. They have to make 3 under a total time. The first day we do it when they are fresh after that it is after practice. we had about 60 percent pass. We add 3 seconds to the overall total everyday. We had every one but one pass by first day of padsbut he was giving great effort . It was a positive for us because several players helped the others run and pace them. After the first day the ones who were running were the ones totally out of shape. This was my first year doing it and we will do it again. If anything kids will run before two-a-days to keep from having to do it again. This is safer to them in the long run. And last Split good luck in getting it turned around you guys like a challenge.
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Post by amikell on Aug 5, 2005 22:01:59 GMT -6
falcon66,
how do you run your shuttles, ie what are the lengthes, and what are the times for each position? I like the idea of running before two-a-days.
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Post by falcon66 on Aug 5, 2005 22:24:20 GMT -6
the idea way to do 2 of them is 50 yards down and back three times, and then do one 30 yards ten times.
The kids haven't complained but they even comment how they need to get in shape.
Varsity backs and receivers 175 seconds
varsity line and j.v backs 180
jv line 185
we start the first day of two-a-days
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Post by amikell on Aug 19, 2005 18:46:59 GMT -6
FYI-Within two days, everyone on the team had passed our test. Granted we did adjust the time by adding 1 sec to each sprint time. 12 secs for DBs, 14 for LBs, and 17 for DL. However, only 4 passed the first day, I think the original DL and LB time is right on, but 11 secs for our DBs was a bit too fast. We don't have that much speed.
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