Boltar
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by Boltar on Sept 8, 2010 9:45:02 GMT -6
What do you guys think of this type of high school program:
All three levels run basically the same offense and defense.
The frosh squad is basically it's own entity and practices on it's own.
The JV and the Varsity squads practice together.
I know that's pretty standard but here's the kicker,
during practice the Varsity gets 95% of the reps and the JV guys are used as scouts and get 5% of the reps.
During the entire week before Friday, if the JV guys get 20 team reps, they're lucky.
The idea is that the JV scores don't matter and on Friday, when the JV game is played, "it will take care of itself".
There's always more than one way to skin a cat but I'm interested to know what you guys think. If anyone does something similar, I'd like to hear about your experiences.
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Post by Wingtman on Sept 8, 2010 10:42:28 GMT -6
We are lucky as we get a lot of jayvee time. In Missouri, jv games are on Mondays. Normally on Tuesdays, during team O its Varsity 1 and Varstiy 2 (which is a lot of jv kids, 60 kids total in program 9-12). On Wensday its Varsity 1 and Varsity 2. The JV D also gets around 15 at this time. Thursdays the jv stays about 30 min after to work on stuff (varsity done at 430, normal practice is till 6, so they are still leaving early.)
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Post by Wingtman on Sept 8, 2010 10:43:38 GMT -6
Edit: its Varsity 1 and JV 1
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Post by coachorr on Sept 8, 2010 11:14:44 GMT -6
In our case, the Freshmen practice against the JV. And on JV nights, Juniors play down and a couple of Freshmen use a few quarters and play up.
This way, for the first several weeks of practice our 1's are going against their ones. And then we will run scout teams for each other.
We currently have 44 Freshmen, 2 play up all the time and 3 or 4 play 1 to 2 quarters. We have 13 sophmores. So it's one of those years.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 8, 2010 11:46:21 GMT -6
I have coached in a couple of different states with a couple of different rules, but here is what I have seen and used:
In Utah, you have Soph & JV games that are played on thursday afternoon. All sophomores that don't start varsity play in the sophomore game at 3:30 thursday. All juniors and seniors who don't start varsity play in the JV game at 3:30 thursday. Your best sophomores dress friday for the varsity game and the entire JV team dresses for varsity since they are the #2's on varsity anyway. Under that system, the JV team never had seperate time from varsity. They were the scout defense on offensive days (with about 1/3 of the reps varsity starters get) and the scout offense on defensive days (with about 1/3 of the reps varsity starters get). They are getting prepared for the varsity game, so anything they see at the JV level shouldn't hurt them any. Sophomore players usually just dress and play varsity in a blowout, so it is all basic runs and basic passes for them. They practice seperate from the varsity, but still run the same system, just a streamlined one.
Then I moved to CA... Where you can only dress for one game a week, and the JV plays the same night as varsity. I know of a lot of programs that have a completely seperate JV program from the varsity program. Their JV runs different plays, different coaches, and everything just about different. We used the same setup as we did in Utah, with the exception of kids being able to play both games. We had the JV and Varsity practice together, with the varsity kids getting more reps than the JV in practice, but the varsity coaches and JV coaches were the same people. The JV kids were getting prepared as if they are going to play a varsity game... If the kids are competing against varsity kids in practice each and every day, they are going to get much better than going against a seperated scout JV team. 20 reps vs. a varsity scout is way better than 60 reps vs. a jv scout where the DT's are your 5th string corners at 105 lbs. I am a firm believer in quality of reps over quantity of reps.
Am I saying that this is the only way to go... no. But my philosophy is that JV should almost be a "negative thing". To me, JV just means that I'm not good enough to be on varsity. Nobody puts the JV games in the paper, or has an all-JV team. I use JV as preparation for varsity. Practice with the varsity, learn with the varsity, play agianst a JV team.
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Post by airman on Sept 8, 2010 12:57:19 GMT -6
I have been a a few different places with different ways to doing things.
I was at one place were 5th through 12 ran the same offense. It was a great experience b/c the head coach included the middle school and fr,soph on his staff. the kids knew the drill from 5th grade on.
I was at a place where the high school was 9 through 12 and they had no control over 6,7&8 grade football.
one thing we did was require 8th graders who were going to be 9th graders to be in the weight room and take part in summer practice. this helped break them in.
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Boltar
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by Boltar on Sept 8, 2010 13:06:56 GMT -6
I'm in California right now.
I'm being told that the "JV" kids can play in the JV game on Friday and if they have to, the Varsity game on the same night. So two games in one night.
Later, when league starts, the JV games are going to be played on Thursdays. On Friday, they'll suit up as well with the possibility of playing. Two games in one week.
How's that sound to you guys?
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Post by brophy on Sept 8, 2010 13:12:24 GMT -6
sounds like great opportunities for experience for those JV guys (actually BEST when those JV guys aren't sophomores)
there are a lot of ways to manage it, and what is 'best' depends on the program (and its needs). I've been/seen it done lots of different ways (though I prefer separate entities) with about the same success rate. I would say the situation outlined above (op) probably makes the most sense for programs struggling to put a good Varsity product together / challenge to get wins and build the program (fast and dirty method)
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Boltar
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by Boltar on Sept 8, 2010 13:59:02 GMT -6
I think the level of competition in practice is a benefit for the JV kids as well.
I'm just wondering how effective they can be without really practicing?
I guess my basic question revolves around whether or not it's a good idea to view the JV as an afterthought?
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coachbigelow
Junior Member
Coach at Southern Virginia University
Posts: 261
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Post by coachbigelow on Sept 8, 2010 14:08:42 GMT -6
I am in Utah and so like cqmiller this is what we do. However we also will use jv games as game time experience for some players that might even play in the varsity game a lot or even start. We are different than everyone else I guess.
Our head coach from sophomores on up wants to dominate our region. We want to establish early that you will never beat us so get used to it. At half in region usually our starters are pulled and the JV gets varsity experience against the other teams starters. So when they move on as the varsity team the next year they have confidence that they are the best team in region no matter what. While JV does scout team, we actually do try to win our games and do care about the JV.
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Post by brophy on Sept 8, 2010 14:10:57 GMT -6
that all depends on how involved / how realistic those 'jv' guys are as varsity players.
if the 'jv' is a mashing of 20 scrubs who will NEVER see the varsity field under any circumstances, then it really becomes a waste of time to devote resources to them.
if those 'jv' guys are kids who could, in a pinch, be a varsity player, then, yes the value of practicing (and the savings of a dedicated practice/staff) is warranted.
if you have tons of guys standing around in practice (is that what you're referring to?) then there is a big discrepancy in talent and/or you really need a separate staff for those kids (or run two huddles during team)
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 8, 2010 14:29:06 GMT -6
I'm in California right now. I'm being told that the "JV" kids can play in the JV game on Friday and if they have to, the Varsity game on the same night. So two games in one night. Later, when league starts, the JV games are going to be played on Thursdays. On Friday, they'll suit up as well with the possibility of playing. Two games in one week. How's that sound to you guys? Unless southern section has COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULES, then you guys are in trouble if one of those kids gets hurt. We cannot play a kid in 2 games the same week. ESPECIALLY THE SAME DAY.
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Post by Wingtman on Sept 8, 2010 21:28:14 GMT -6
With a few exceptions of some seniors, our jv is our varsity 2. We are very competitive on the level. Is there an all jv team? No. These games DO matter in the development of our program.
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Post by John Knight on Sept 9, 2010 5:13:59 GMT -6
I have been doing this for 27 years and we have never practiced the JV other than scout team. We also will run some of our scout offense stuff and have been very successful when we have the talent.
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Post by coach31 on Sept 9, 2010 7:49:11 GMT -6
Coach, That is similar to the way we do it here in PA. JVs get no reps. 2nd teamers get 20 reps a week on O and little D. Our JV games on Mondays can be ugly. I have to be the guy at the JV games.
A couple of questions.
Does everybody have to get into the JV game? It burns me to waste JV game reps on kids that miss practice and don't try when they are at practice.
Do you take Seniors to JV game? If we have a SR that did not start/play in the Varsity game we take them to JV for the numbers.
How many do you Dress JV/Varsity for practice/games? We dress 40ish, not enough to practice JV seprately.
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Post by John Knight on Sept 9, 2010 8:32:39 GMT -6
Coach31, I feel a sr that can't play on friday but give a good effort as a scout player should get to play JV
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Boltar
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by Boltar on Sept 9, 2010 9:14:01 GMT -6
Coach, That is similar to the way we do it here in PA. JVs get no reps. 2nd teamers get 20 reps a week on O and little D. Our JV games on Mondays can be ugly. I have to be the guy at the JV games. A couple of questions. Does everybody have to get into the JV game? It burns me to waste JV game reps on kids that miss practice and don't try when they are at practice. Do you take Seniors to JV game? If we have a SR that did not start/play in the Varsity game we take them to JV for the numbers. How many do you Dress JV/Varsity for practice/games? We dress 40ish, not enough to practice JV seprately. Here are my answers coach, No everybody does not "have to" get into the game but we certainly try. That's what the head guy wants. Seniors are not allowed to play in JV games here. Right now, the JV and the Varsity wear the same uniforms. After the JV game, they get some nourishment and then are on the sidelines for the entire Varsity game as well. I think this may change eventually in the sense that they won't all be on the sideline, only the ones with a chance to play.
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