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Post by hlb2 on Sept 4, 2010 20:47:21 GMT -6
How many of you taking losing personal? My assistants tell me this quite often, and it bothers me, but must be true. I'm in a bad situation, coaching my alma mater, and we are 2-20 since taking over 2 years ago. We have only had 7 winning seasons since 1975 here, and I was a part of 2 of those as a player, and 4 of those as an assistant coach. I was on winning teams in college and the worst I've ever been a part of is 5-5 in high school and in college. We don't have a lot of talent, excellent kids, please don't get me wrong, I'd let darn near all them date my daughter, just not talented. I enjoy working with them a lot. But 2-20??? I need help dealing with it I guess. I feel it's always my fault, and there are things I could have done to better prepare us, and now I'm always second guessing. I'm no longer trusting players, and I'm in fear that I'm getting "used" to losing. Don't get me wrong, the administration loves me (for some reason) and I have a great relationship with most of the players. I just can't shake the way I feel after we lose, I can't seperate it from the fact it's just a game, and I did not play in it. Anyone else ever deal with is, or is it time to go see the shrink?   I guess I don't know how to handle the losses, especially when our kids fight so hard, but Friday after Friday we are outmanned. I just feel somehow, it's my fault, and I know this cannot be healthy. Is it time for me to go? This is my first HC gig, and my only 1, I doubt I'd coach anywhere after this. I just hate letting the school and the town down like I have. I know it's an odd situation, but any ideas now would be very helpful. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 4, 2010 20:59:32 GMT -6
Nothing wrong and there usually is no way to deal with a loss (when you've done all you can).
Perspective may all you need to frame a functional response (that you can live with). What can you change - what can't you?
As far as not trusting the kids - how much do you trust your assistants?
If you're competitive (who aint here?) you can be prone to obsessiveness, so forcing ourselves to adopt moderation is key
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Post by phantom on Sept 4, 2010 21:00:11 GMT -6
Done feeling sorry for yourself, Princess?
This is a tough business for tough people. We're in-season. There's no time for self pity. Kids may have the right to feel sorry for themselves. Professionals don't. I've seen enough of your stuff on here to know that you're a pro. Act like one.
It's tough, I know. Get it back together, though. We don't have the luxury of feeling sorry for ourselves.
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Post by dubber on Sept 4, 2010 21:03:03 GMT -6
How many of you taking losing personal? My assistants tell me this quite often, and it bothers me, but must be true. I'm in a bad situation, coaching my alma mater, and we are 2-20 since taking over 2 years ago. We have only had 7 winning seasons since 1975 here, and I was a part of 2 of those as a player, and 4 of those as an assistant coach. I was on winning teams in college and the worst I've ever been a part of is 5-5 in high school and in college. We don't have a lot of talent, excellent kids, please don't get me wrong, I'd let darn near all them date my daughter, just not talented. I enjoy working with them a lot. But 2-20??? I need help dealing with it I guess. I feel it's always my fault, and there are things I could have done to better prepare us, and now I'm always second guessing. I'm no longer trusting players, and I'm in fear that I'm getting "used" to losing. Don't get me wrong, the administration loves me (for some reason) and I have a great relationship with most of the players. I just can't shake the way I feel after we lose, I can't seperate it from the fact it's just a game, and I did not play in it. Anyone else ever deal with is, or is it time to go see the shrink? I guess I don't know how to handle the losses, especially when our kids fight so hard, but Friday after Friday we are outmanned. I just feel somehow, it's my fault, and I know this cannot be healthy. Is it time for me to go? This is my first HC gig, and my only 1, I doubt I'd coach anywhere after this. I just hate letting the school and the town down like I have. I know it's an odd situation, but any ideas now would be very helpful. This is a little out of left field, and no disrespect intended......... I'm going to assume that as a player, YOU were NOT the kind of kid you would let date your daughter. I mean if you are outmatched, you are outmatched (and the weight room and the hallways are your ONLY salvations) But if it is deal where YOU are the only one wanting to win........then you have to infect others.......or stay 2-20 Competition is ugly.......it can (and should) be done with honor, but it does demand LEADERSHIP, and you need a PLAYER to hate to lose as much as you..........and the odds are, that kid ain't gonna be the kind you want around your daughter. Find the as shole, empower him, and turn him loose. |
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Post by hlb2 on Sept 4, 2010 21:19:05 GMT -6
Pity party was not intended. Help in dealing with the situation was. My assistants tell me what I do to myself after games is unhealthy, and they are concerned. I didn't used to listen to them, but a rash of health issues here lately has me wondering. Please don't take the message as me feeling sorry for myself, I just don't want the game putting me in my pine box earlier than expected!!!
Brophy, for the most part I "trust" my assistants, however their abilities are very limited. Getting rid of assistants around here doesn't happen because it could easily be 3 to 4 years before you find his replacement. Football is not important around here, and the only way to change that is win. However that has escaped us here lately, so we are struggling. The sad thing is, we actually have as good a team as we've had in a few years, but mentally they expect to fail so they do. Anyhow, I'm rambling, the assistants are good no doubt, good people just limited knowledge. Why do you ask this brophy?
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Post by hlb2 on Sept 4, 2010 21:20:37 GMT -6
Nothing wrong and there usually is no way to deal with a loss (when you've done all you can). Perspective may all you need to frame a functional response (that you can live with). What can you change - what can't you? As far as not trusting the kids - how much do you trust your assistants? If you're competitive (who aint here?) you can be prone to obsessiveness, so forcing ourselves to adopt moderation is key Do you mean moderation of football? If so...how, especially "in-season" or did I totally misread that? |
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Post by phantom on Sept 4, 2010 21:31:56 GMT -6
Nothing wrong and there usually is no way to deal with a loss (when you've done all you can). Perspective may all you need to frame a functional response (that you can live with). What can you change - what can't you? As far as not trusting the kids - how much do you trust your assistants? If you're competitive (who aint here?) you can be prone to obsessiveness, so forcing ourselves to adopt moderation is key Do you mean moderation of football? If so...how, especially "in-season" or did I totally misread that? Get some sleep, for one. Stop worrying and be aware that there's a difference between worrying and thinking. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 4, 2010 22:24:38 GMT -6
Moderation as a reminder....being competitive means a do-whatever it takes attitude, so if you do it - you do it BIG. Just pointing out the mentality we all may have. If your coping mechanism is drinking....you may go overboard. That's al I'm saying.
Assistants have to be used to give you less of a heart attack. Your name is in the paper, but you're not a 1-man army. HC is about 1% football - so getting the kids on board (the empower the {censored} comment actually has a lot of validity) and getting your staff to get after it and take (effort) bullets for you may be what is required not only to relieve your pressure but also turn the corner for your program.
The "wins" you're going to need, unfortunately, need to be in Jan - July (off season)
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Post by John Knight on Sept 5, 2010 5:49:56 GMT -6
If football isn't really important, winning isn't really going to change anything!  |
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Post by blb on Sept 5, 2010 7:55:21 GMT -6
Make a little time, win or lose, to get away from it on weekend.
Watch CFB. Take a walk, go to dinner with the wife. Go to your kids' soccer (ugh) games. Mow the lawn.
And as others posted earlier, take care of your health (rest, eat right, watch alcohol intake).
Then get back at it, focus on the process of preparing for the contests and enjoy camaraderie with coaches and kids.
Losing will still hurt if you're a competitor, perhaps more so because you're at your alma mater and are even more emotionally invested.
But like Grandma used to say, "Do the best you can, and if that's not good enough - pizz on it."
Just don't lose yourself in the process. As great as it is and as important to us as it is, it's still just HS football.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2010 9:23:04 GMT -6
That's his problem though! He cannot separate that fact, and it's going to kill him (sorry buddy). I'm his DC and it kills me, but I can let it go after a beer or 2. He takes the brunt of everything, and will not listen to the fact no matter how hard we work here right now, we are just flat outmanned 75% of the time we take the field. The real issue is that the kids we have now are the best they've been in 3 years, and we feel we should be doing better than we are. Losing haunts this program and it takes special kids to correct that issue (both hlb2 and I were apart of that change over 15 years ago). Right now it's not scheme or coaching it's the kids beating themselves b/c they expect to fail. He won't listen to me, or any of the other assistants for that matter, but I'm glad you posted on here buddy.
Duece
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Post by calkayne on Sept 5, 2010 10:45:52 GMT -6
Might be off the mark here, but thinking outside of the Box:
If the Team has a culture of loosing then I would imagine that the Kids will sink at the first sign of adversity. IMO this is the hardest hurdle to overcome in young players attitudes.
Do you have Video evenings/nights? Do you have Team BBQs or Sausage Sizzle days? Heck, I would imagine that most kids these days have some sort of Games console at home. That and a Projector and a Two Minute Drill Mini Competition can help build Camaraderie within the Players, even the Coaches can join in.
Build the Camaraderie from new, establish a new culture. As you have stated the Admin is behind you despite the 2-20 record. From whats written here you are convinced that the Scheme itself is sound and the problem is the kids ability to deal with situations. Thats not Xs & Os thats Leadership, an intangible quality that every Team must have to enjoy any degree of success but not every Team has.
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Post by brophy on Sept 5, 2010 15:53:12 GMT -6
That's all a culture thing - but I've never seen where that was turned around on the field in the fall or after one pep talk.
All you can do is what you can do (which is now). It would help if you could get the kids to concentrate on one play at a time instead of the big picture....because in the end, they may always lose on the scoreboard. They are right when they say its a leadership issue - but it has more to do with the kids leading. When you expect to fail, its because you're a rudderless ship with no direction. Kids have to take ownership of the program (again, off season stuff) where, by friday night, THEY are running things - it is THEIR balls on the line. Team building, leadership mentoring/training; all off-season stuff that HAS to be done to develop the core group of leaders and promote a positive peer culture of competition.
Getting over a loss after a beer or two? I don't know how you do that (I don't know, maybe I need help, too). How do you invest all off-season, pour everything you've got into the week prior only to walk away at the roll of the dice? I may be mistakenly believe that the results on the field are personal, a reflection of what I've built through the week.
Maybe there is something wrong with me and I'M not the one to be offering 'advice', but how are the rest of the staff and players when going over film (game planning the next opponent)?
I'll be the first to admit there are games you're gonna lose and sometimes you just cannot compete with the other team's roster(s), but if the coordinators aren't second guessing themselves, their calls/preparation after a loss and it doesn't eat at them for a day or two, there may be an issue
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2010 18:27:40 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong brophy I was making an analogy. My bro hlb has been to the hospital a few times with some bp issues and even has had chest pains. He won't let it go though, it's football 24 for 7 for this guy and in this business you HAVE to take time off, especially where we are, or it will kill you. We've tried to talk to him, and I'm glad he came on here, but to be honest, this place has worn us down. It's unfortunate b/c as hlb said we have not just good kids, great kids, they just have 0 leadership and expect to fail. It's what their father's did and their father's before them did. hlb just thought it would change overnight, and now in year 3 it hasn't and I keep telling him it may never change. We've brought the weight room to a standard it has never been, we've brought the number of kids up to a level it's never been, so we are making strides, it's just slow. And for a guy who takes it as personal as my buddy, he won't be around to see us turn the corner if he doesn't do something soon.
Duece
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Post by blb on Sept 6, 2010 7:21:39 GMT -6
Too many milk drinkers, not enough whiskey drinkers can be a problem.
Or as my college coach said, "You need some fockers, fighters, and wild horse riders."
This ain't the chess club.
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Post by blb on Sept 6, 2010 7:32:05 GMT -6
duece and hlb: Couple examples that may give you hope.
Guy I worked for at a D-III college got out of CFB to take a HS job because he was tired of recruiting. He had done better at this college than anybody in a long time and previously had a stellar HS record, including a state championship.
His first four years at his new HS he was 5-31, including an oh-fer. Last seven years he won championships in two different conferences and a district title, went something like 54-19.
Another guy had been a successful HS coach before going into administration. The district he was at needed a HFC, had no teaching jobs to hire outside or qualified internal candidates, so they let him take over despite being MS principal.
First three years he was 4-23. Last five years he won three districts, two league titles, a regional, made state finals, was 46-12.
My point is - you may be closer to getting it turned than you think.
Keep pounding the rock - but enjoy the journey too!
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Post by coachmacplains on Sept 6, 2010 14:37:10 GMT -6
Do you mean moderation of football? If so...how, especially "in-season" or did I totally misread that? . Good piece of advice that took me awhile to figure out. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2010 15:05:30 GMT -6
Dammit! I knew the DC would get thrown under the bus in this one way or another!  The milk drinker/whiskey drinker thing is exactly right, all our kids are NHS, Key Club, hell our team GPA is somwhere around a 3.5!!! Great kids, just super soft. That's what makes it sad, you want those lil' fellers to succeed b/c they are so good, and they do try so hard. But at the end of the day, there are no whiskey drinkers, and it shows. Duece hlb where you @ brah? Said you was gonna post back this afternoon?!  |
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Post by pvogel on Sept 8, 2010 22:38:51 GMT -6
hlb and deuce- i have been reading your posts since i have been a part of this website and have greatly looked up to the both of ya as good coaches and learned a great deal from you both. i hate to be this guy, but from a football standpoint, it is quite relieving to know that coaches as good as you guys are going thru the same stuff we are (except our GPA aint quite that good). Not saying i wish you the worst, but to see that even the best coaches dont win all the time is a reminder of what we cannot control.
I really hope that didnt come out wrong. I really meant the best compliment out of that.
But it sounds like youre doing a portion of the job right- these kids sound like good kids off the field.
I think the biggest thing is to remember that at the end of the day, if you can truly say with honesty "i did my best and i tried my absolute hardest", you can rest easier. I know its tough when results arent quite tangible, but at the end of the day the only person in this world you HAVE to answer to is yourself.
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Post by hlb2 on Sept 10, 2010 8:38:48 GMT -6
Duece does that quite well, and he does a great job, extremely thourough and detailed. It's just doubt I guess. He has way more HC experience than I do, so I lean on him sometimes, but this is the only part of the job I wrestle with. I always think there is something more I could be doing, I just don't know what "it" is! All my assistant coaches tell me the same thing that we're doing all we can ( I have 2 former HC's on my staff), somehow I just feel we could be doing more.
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Post by coachwood on Sept 10, 2010 10:56:01 GMT -6
How many of you taking losing personal? My assistants tell me this quite often, and it bothers me, but must be true. I'm in a bad situation, coaching my alma mater, and we are 2-20 since taking over 2 years ago. We have only had 7 winning seasons since 1975 here, and I was a part of 2 of those as a player, and 4 of those as an assistant coach. I was on winning teams in college and the worst I've ever been a part of is 5-5 in high school and in college. We don't have a lot of talent, excellent kids, please don't get me wrong, I'd let darn near all them date my daughter, just not talented. I enjoy working with them a lot. But 2-20??? I need help dealing with it I guess. I feel it's always my fault, and there are things I could have done to better prepare us, and now I'm always second guessing. I'm no longer trusting players, and I'm in fear that I'm getting "used" to losing. Don't get me wrong, the administration loves me (for some reason) and I have a great relationship with most of the players. I just can't shake the way I feel after we lose, I can't seperate it from the fact it's just a game, and I did not play in it. Anyone else ever deal with is, or is it time to go see the shrink? I guess I don't know how to handle the losses, especially when our kids fight so hard, but Friday after Friday we are outmanned. I just feel somehow, it's my fault, and I know this cannot be healthy. Is it time for me to go? This is my first HC gig, and my only 1, I doubt I'd coach anywhere after this. I just hate letting the school and the town down like I have. I know it's an odd situation, but any ideas now would be very helpful. Control what you can control. Losing sucks. It does ... however, stay focussed. Your assistants are looking to you for leadership. Keep teaching. Keep teaching. Keep teaching. Fundamentals and more fundamentals. Keep your kids together because they are hearing in the halls and you don't want to lose them. Nothing wrong with being hard on your kids ... but also give hugs and have some fun. Know when to put the pedal down on your team ... but just as important .... know when to let it up. |
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Post by coachklee on Sept 15, 2010 9:38:07 GMT -6
I think I cope with losing well...hopefully not too well! The last three years I've been an assistant with a program that has struggled very similarly (5 winning seasons since 1977). The HC is a former player from 1 of those 5 winning seasons.
Our first year together we didn't win until week 9 and finished 1-7. Last year we started to breakthrough and finished 4-5 with only 3 seniors so we were looking forward to a great 2010. Unfortunately we didn't show up week 1 and lost 0 to 54. Week 2 we played great offense but no defense and lost 56 to 58. This past week the kids probably played the best game of their life against a perennial playoff team that had outscored us 105 to 22 the two previous years, but still came up short 14 to 20.
I guess what keeps me and the HC going is that we look for the positives and point them out to the kids (of which there were many the last two weeks). We focus the kids on how they are so close to becoming a winning football team (sometimes it is just one block or one tackle on one play like it was the last two weeks). And when it is all said and done I guess you just have to live with the fact that the kids either decide/have the ability to execute and finish or they don't. If we've done all we could as a coaching staff in the practices leading up to the game then we've given the kids the best chance at being successful. Hopefully, after watching your film you'd be able to see many things you emphasize in practice showing up in the games. Try to fix what is not there. Stay realistic. Keep things in perspective (how much of it is you and how much of it is the kids). And like many of the other recent posts, stubborn determination might pay off sooner than expected...it did back when you were a player!!!
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I guess I don't know how to handle the losses, especially when our kids fight so hard, but Friday after Friday we are outmanned. I just feel somehow, it's my fault, and I know this cannot be healthy. Is it time for me to go? This is my first HC gig, and my only 1, I doubt I'd coach anywhere after this. I just hate letting the school and the town down like I have. I know it's an odd situation, but any ideas now would be very helpful.
The milk drinker/whiskey drinker thing is exactly right, all our kids are NHS, Key Club, hell our team GPA is somwhere around a 3.5!!! Great kids, just super soft. That's what makes it sad, you want those lil' fellers to succeed b/c they are so good, and they do try so hard. But at the end of the day, there are no whiskey drinkers, and it shows.
