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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 12, 2009 9:03:59 GMT -6
Not looking to turn THIS into the never ending public/private thread (which i think tops even the ever popular bowls vs playoff threads).
I am curious as to the nature of debate (if any) in your area. The clamoring for a split will be ringingly loudly in LA again (as it does at this time of the year) with 5 of the 10 schools in the championships being privates. The bigger issue here in LA though is the smaller schools, with both 2A and 3A championship games being private power vs private power. Having matchups such as these in the dome tend to start the mob mentality.
How is it in your area? Is it a deal? Louisiana is unique in that I believe it has vastly more private schools (percentage) than anywhere else in the country.
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 12, 2009 9:20:00 GMT -6
It's pretty minimal, at least from where I'm standing. We have a league in our section called the West Catholic Athletic League where all the big powerhouses spend most've the season beating the hell out of each other, which actually allows for others to have a chance at our 'open' division title come playoffs. Typically 2-3 WCAL schools make the 8 team 'open' division, 1-2 other privates make it, and then the rest are the really dominant public schools.
It works in its own funky way. They're kinda like their own little high school version of the SEC.
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 12, 2009 10:24:46 GMT -6
Public and private schools are completly separate in VA..
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bama
Freshmen Member
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Post by bama on Dec 12, 2009 11:36:22 GMT -6
In Alabama we have a private school league (AISA) and we also have private schools playing in the AHSAA with public schools. It is the schools choice. We had a big uprising several years ago and the AHSAA put a multiplier (1.35) for enrollment counts. Each student at the private schools counts as 1.35 students to off set the closed enrollment policies. Since the multiplier we have had fewer private schools in the championship games.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Dec 12, 2009 11:48:47 GMT -6
It's not that big here. The majority of private schools play in their own organization, but a few pay to play against the public schools. They aren't that good, and don't do very well in football. They are good in the other sports, soccer and baseball mostly, but fans do complain about one of them because they do recruit. They bring in baseball players from all over, and often win the state title in 2A.
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Post by schulzy on Dec 12, 2009 12:01:01 GMT -6
Huge in NJ.
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Post by tog on Dec 12, 2009 12:13:21 GMT -6
They are for the most part seperate here in Texas. They let in two large private schools and should not have.
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Post by mahonz on Dec 12, 2009 12:57:44 GMT -6
Huge in Colo too considereing 2 of the 5 divisions are recently dominated by the Private schools. ( football)
Coach Mike
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Post by rhscoachbh on Dec 12, 2009 13:25:25 GMT -6
The private/public debate is huge in California. Our BCS style of choosing a state champion might become a bigger issue though.
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 12, 2009 13:47:16 GMT -6
I will say that privates dominate the state games in CA, but as far as section champs go, I don't think it's too overwhelming, but like I said, we mostly make them play in their own division/league.
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Post by rhscoachbh on Dec 12, 2009 14:11:23 GMT -6
Down here, So-Cal, they are mixed into our divisions pretty equally. Most are in their own league however. The privates did dominate a little more in the 90s than they have recently.
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Post by k on Dec 12, 2009 16:46:10 GMT -6
We have 3* private schools near us. One is the largest school in the state. It is a catholic school. Academically it is well below all of the public schools that surround it with the exception of the town which it is in. Costs $12,000 a year. Then there are two very elite boarding schools one religious and one secular. They cost like $30,000 a year each.
The two non catholic schools are two of the most elite schools in the country and although both play football they don't recruit locally and their football programs are nothing. They play in their own league and have 5th year post grads who play for them. They have very few regulations on recruiting and are allowed to recruit football players and give them athletic scholarships. They do so.
The catholic mega school is not allowed to recruit but does so. They offer "full academic scholarships" to kids who get Cs and Ds in low level classes in middle school if they can play ball. They recruit HEAVILY and do so from 6th grade on.
Basically it is that catholic mega school versus every public around and it goes well beyond rivalry as there really is a hatred. Every story about any school other than the catholic mega school results in ten pages of insults about that school by students from the catholic mega school in the local media.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 12, 2009 16:50:53 GMT -6
We only have a couple in our state, but this year the large school state champ was a private school that had 8 DI seniors who just blew everybody out of the water all year long and it has started some debate about how "fair" it is for them to be playing the public schools.
Funny thing is, when they won it all 2 years ago it was their first time even winning their league in like 10 years, so while the playing field may not be "level", it's not like none of the public schools have a chance, so I doubt it gets much farther than discussion at this point.
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kahok
Sophomore Member
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Post by kahok on Dec 12, 2009 16:57:53 GMT -6
In Illinois the Public vs Private debate is comparable only to Roe v Wade. With both sides being just as passionate. A few years ago they put in a multiplier to try and even out the "advantages" of non-boundried schools.
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sin86
Sophomore Member
Posts: 111
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Post by sin86 on Dec 12, 2009 20:33:00 GMT -6
Huge in TN where privates get a 1.8 multiplier. Doesn't really matter as all DI championships were public this year. Class 1A (smallest school division) had two publics, 2A was one public vs one private, and 3A, 4A, 5A, and 6A were all public as well.
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Post by ticobrown on Dec 12, 2009 20:37:49 GMT -6
In Illinois the Public vs Private debate is comparable only to Roe v Wade. With both sides being just as passionate. A few years ago they put in a multiplier to try and even out the "advantages" of non-boundried schools. Other than having the 'multiplier,' sounds like New Jersey, lol. The public schools wishes that Don Bosco, Bergen Catholic, St. Peter's, St. Joseph's (North Jersey), St. Joseph's (South Jersey) would go away.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 12, 2009 21:24:34 GMT -6
I may be wrong (I will preference this by stating I coach at a private school) but in PA you don't really see the private schools dominating in football at least. I am sure there are those that feel strongly the two should be separate or have a multiplier but the private schools aren't out there winning it year in and year out. They have had a true state playoff since 1988 with four class and I think 11 privates have won titles.
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Post by kylem56 on Dec 12, 2009 22:20:18 GMT -6
Ive been coaching in Ohio the last 4 years and I have never realy heard much grumblings about it. Grew up and played in Michigan and it seemed that by time the finals rolled around, there was always alot of debate over it (Except when the private schools lost). No multiplier or seperate divisions in either start. I played for a private school but always coached in public schools and I really could care less about it. Only worry about what you can control ya know
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plapla
Probationary Member
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Post by plapla on Dec 13, 2009 8:46:55 GMT -6
I dont get all the hatred toward private schools on this board. I am in PA and it seems to me that the public schools have all the advantages over almost everyone in the private sector. The facilities are better, I didnt even have my own field to play on, weight rooms, money to pay coaches, money to pay lots of coaches, my local public high school has ten coaches. Practice equipment is better. The list could go on.
Anyone of the public schools could win a state title and there are 500 public school districts. There are like 5 private schools that have it together and could win a state title. This doesn't seem unfair to me. It seems more like people trying to win by eliminating competition.
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Post by wiaa3 on Dec 13, 2009 9:15:00 GMT -6
I coach in Wisconsin, and it is a huge problem...
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Post by blb on Dec 13, 2009 10:03:03 GMT -6
This debate always heats up here around state finals time because private schools win a disproportionate amount (or so the argument goes) of state titles compared to number of schools playing football.
Of course most of the people complaining are those whose teams get eliminated by a private school team. It does get people's blood pressure up on both sides, though.
It's a moot point though because MHSAA representative council and administration have shown absolutely no inclination to divide tournament, even though issue has been brought up every so often for years.
I have always coached in public schools and really don't care one way or the other. Besides, it's not going to change, at least in my coaching lifetime, so why worry about it?
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Post by phantom on Dec 13, 2009 10:26:27 GMT -6
Public and private schools are completly separate in VA.. I should add that I've heard virtually no debate about changing that.
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Post by k on Dec 13, 2009 10:50:02 GMT -6
I should add that I've heard virtually no debate about changing that. And that is how it should be.
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 13, 2009 11:02:01 GMT -6
In MN, I hear more complaining about private schools in the metro area in the sport of Hockey than I do football.
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Post by phantom on Dec 13, 2009 11:08:26 GMT -6
In MN, I hear more complaining about private schools in the metro area in the sport of Hockey than I do football. In Virginia, although the publics and privates don't directly compete, there are complaints about privates recruiting. It's mostly not in football here, too. Basketball and baseball is s different story.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 13, 2009 11:20:54 GMT -6
We get the same complaint about recruiting here, but there is only one private school at the 4A and a few smaller schools in the lower divisions. Private schools aren't as relevant here, the population is smaller so there are fewer numbers. Also, take our district for example, our graduation rate is close to 90 per cent, so the public schools do a good job.
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Post by poweriguy on Dec 13, 2009 11:29:41 GMT -6
We get the same complaint about recruiting here, but there is only one private school at the 4A and a few smaller schools in the lower divisions. Private schools aren't as relevant here, the population is smaller so there are fewer numbers. Also, take our district for example, our graduation rate is close to 90 per cent, so the public schools do a good job. Aren't charter schools allowed to field athletic teams up there ? I remember reading the Statesman and seeing a few charter schools scores in the paper. Few years ago there was a big debate here in central ca about allowing charter schools to participate in athletics. They were afraid schools would open up just to field teams.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 13, 2009 11:34:41 GMT -6
Yes, there are a few charter schools with teams, but they compete at the 2A level. So, it hasn't been a real big deal so far. They are allowed to compete with public schools. Charter schools educationwise... are not very good in my opinion based on some of the stuff I have seen.
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Post by airman on Dec 13, 2009 14:12:51 GMT -6
I live in wisconsin and in Illinois what I find interesting about the argument in both states is they hammer the private schools in football but totally look the other way in urban centers of milwaukee and chicago when it comes to basketball for public schools.
I have worked at both public and private schools and the half truths presented by both but mainly public schools makes me laugh. Here is the real truth about most private schools, their staffs are underpaid, lack the benefits of public schools, have less then comparable facilities and at least 50% barely keep their doors open every year to keep costs down.
what private schools have are two things. firstly the staff moral at private schools is higher and have a can do attitude. the sad myth presented by virtually all churches is the a vow of poverty is some how honorable. this is why they do more with less. second thing they have going for them in virtually all the parents who send their kids to private schools want their kids to be high achievers for a better life.
what I feel urban privates offer is a safe place. I mean if you are going to inner city public in milwaukee or chicago why would you not want to go to a private school. football in the public schools in the cities of chicago and milwaukee suck. why would you not try to go private or open enroll to a suburban public.
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Post by blb on Dec 13, 2009 14:15:23 GMT -6
As I posted earlier, am really ambivalent about this.
From reading posts, there are obviously states where it works fine both ways.
I guess if I was ever fortunate enough to win a state championship, I'd like it to be for entire state division or class (however it's determined), not just public schools, with some other school out there laying claim.
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