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Post by coachplaa on Nov 6, 2009 7:58:20 GMT -6
I'm lookiing for any resources that offer insights on flooding the Track program with football athletes. Practice plans, stength training, etc., anything that relates to the subject. I know there are many programs out there that make football players that don't play another spring sport, join the track team. There must be resources of the things that work, and the pitfalls too.
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Post by airraider on Nov 6, 2009 8:03:12 GMT -6
I'm lookiing for any resources that offer insights on flooding the Track program with football athletes. Practice plans, stength training, etc., anything that relates to the subject. I know there are many programs out there that make football players that don't play another spring sport, join the track team. There must be resources of the things that work, and the pitfalls too. We make all football players take part in a "track" off season program... We do this during our athletic PE.. so they do not have to stay after school.. this makes it much more appealing.. We have all players out there running in track spikes on Tues and Thurs.. We run 50 second runs.. and mark them with stakes with their names on them so they can see how far around the track they make it in the 50 seconds.. We run lots of 200's and 500's.. use strength shoes and bungees as well.. We only take those who can compete to the meets..
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Post by John Knight on Nov 6, 2009 8:17:02 GMT -6
Track has not been good for our football program. We have had too many bigger kids join the track team to get out of lifting. Sounds crazy I know but even the throwers were not encouraged to lift by the track coaches.
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Post by airraider on Nov 6, 2009 8:25:18 GMT -6
Track has not been good for our football program. We have had too many bigger kids join the track team to get out of lifting. Sounds crazy I know but even the throwers were not encouraged to lift by the track coaches. Ahhh.. the benefits of having the football coaches as track coaches.. we lift on M-W-F and run on Tues and Thurs.. specialty guys work some after school everyday..
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Post by coachdawhip on Nov 6, 2009 8:26:32 GMT -6
Coach Plaa are you looking for sprint work or stuff for your thrower www.athletesacceleration.com/ for sprinters for throwers do your weight lifting and practice technique. I will find some of my old workouts for track and link samples. Track and football can go hand and hand if the track coach are on the same page. I have been a Head Track Coach now for 5 years
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Post by struceri on Nov 6, 2009 8:27:06 GMT -6
we have 3 football coaches who also coach track so they have made a conscious effort to make sure there is time for our fb players to lift after practice. i think it has made all the difference in our program. we are consistently one of the fastest teams in our state.
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Post by coachdawhip on Nov 6, 2009 8:38:29 GMT -6
I agree. I won't lift everyday only because I take track just as serious as I take football.
They should be lifting 3 days a week on average to go along with their running
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 6, 2009 8:46:14 GMT -6
We're looking get this kind of format going this spring where any football player who doesn't have a spring sport does what we're calling 'football track'. The idea is myself and another of our coaches will be out there putting them through speed & agility stuff and getting anyone who isn't in a weightlifting course into the weight room after school, while the rest of the track practice goes on around us as usual. The plan needs fleshing out, but we're kind of excited about the potential.
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Post by PSS on Nov 6, 2009 8:57:05 GMT -6
Our track coaches are football coaches so we don't have problems with getting kids to participate. We want our kids to run track. Runners will go out and get their running workout in and comeback in and get their weight workout. Throwers lift first and then go throw.
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Post by coachbrown3 on Nov 6, 2009 10:53:29 GMT -6
Track is great for working on explosive Olympic type lifts, flexibility, and conditioning. Also, gives the kids a chance to compete.
I have been trying to get more kids out for track and have had some success. I think when I can see a kid grit it out in a 400, that tells me a lot about what type of heart they have...it definitely translates.
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Post by eaglemountie on Nov 6, 2009 11:03:43 GMT -6
Track is great for working on explosive Olympic type lifts, flexibility, and conditioning. Also, gives the kids a chance to compete. I have been trying to get more kids out for track and have had some success. I think when I can see a kid grit it out in a 400, that tells me a lot about what type of heart they have...it definitely translates. I couldn't agree more with this statement. We try to make as many 4x4 teams as we can with our WRs/DBs/RBs... it builds/reveals a ton of character.
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Post by teachcoachwm on Nov 6, 2009 12:20:25 GMT -6
We have actually called our program "Trackball" ....Our team shirts have a Football with wings on it...the CC kids don't seem to mind.....We have been lucky enough to have in school lifting so most of our kids can come right out....If a football player cannot find any event...we put him in the 400m for toughness.....I am the DC and I actually require all LBs to either run the High Hurdles or the Open 400...if they won't run one of these two events they can't play LB....I would give this advice...we've always taken the do a little every day approach...We may not be in as good as shape early as some of the local track powerhouses, but our kids still have legs after Spiring Break. Try to enter meets where they will let you enter as many as you want (even if you have to keep track of times for the slower kids) and keep each kids personal records posted somewhere everybody can see them. That way even if a kid may never win a race, he can still see himself improve. For example, our RB (5-6 200lbs) ran the 200m as a freshman last yearand it was rough on such a short kid....started the season running high 26s, quickly moved into the 25s and finished the season with a 24....never scored a point but saw himself improve...this season as a soph, he is the leading rusher in our region (Class AAAA in South GA, so no slouch)...he was always a strong kid but now the 5 to 8 yard runs he would crack last year are now 12 to 18 yard runs...still not a blazer, but everyone has seen definite speed imporovement and he is a track believer now...
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kwallis
Sophomore Member
[F4:CoachWallis] [F4:CoachWallis]
Posts: 198
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Post by kwallis on Nov 6, 2009 13:29:05 GMT -6
dont know if this will help you much with your argument, but.... before taking my current hs football job i was a s/c coach at a D1 Univ. Worked with football, baseball and track. 3 of my sprinters ran in the Beijing Olympics and numerous run professionally. as a track team we were in the weight room 4 days a week out of season and 2-3 times a week in season (depending on travel) and we got after it every day. and no surprise my best/strongest lifters are the ones running in the olympics and professional.
maybe a little help in your argument with him
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Post by coachmacplains on Nov 6, 2009 16:11:05 GMT -6
Couldn't agree more with some of these posts. As head track coach at our school, I am very interested in success in that sport, so lifting is an integral part of what we do. In fact, our track guys probably get their most intensive weight training while in track than during any other sports season, with the exception of some football players who take advantage of AM lifts (we don't lift as a part of FB practice). In addition to getting the competitive rewards of the sport, many of these guys really learn to train during track - weights, plyos, running. Can't imagine a situation where the two sports would be perceived of as being mutually exclusive.
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fish
Junior Member
Posts: 485
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Post by fish on Nov 7, 2009 0:26:47 GMT -6
we expect our football players that are not competing in other sports (baseball, etc.) to participate in track we don't get 100% participation from those kids, but we do make sure and get the ones we need to be there for us, track is an extension of the off-season...we don't run much in off-season, so we get those kids running in track the important thing is to keep our kids working and competing
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Post by coachplaa on Nov 7, 2009 17:44:18 GMT -6
We are having our young football coaches takeover the track program. Our track program was strong, and the last few years it has weakened. We have one coach who does distance, and one speed coach that are very good. The rest of the coaches will be football guys. We are lucky that way...it will be a track program built for football players, but because we are flooding the track program with football athletes, it will increase the competitiveness of our track program. The big issue I had was weight training in conjunction with speed and performance. We have a dozen good athletes in our program that also enjoy track. In the past, weights have been totally avoided by the track program. I watch my football players lose the opportunity to put on muscle because they are "doing track." For athletes that are not football players, but specialize in track, their program would be indiviudualized more so they aren't cheated.
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Post by coachplaa on Nov 7, 2009 17:47:41 GMT -6
I love the "Trackball" idea. That is sweet. Our kids are all about t-shirts. I also love the idea of creating as many 4x4 teams as possible in training.
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Post by jrarick on Nov 7, 2009 20:01:22 GMT -6
Gadgets - any kind of activity that is competitive - that is hard and fun. We run low hurdles over pizza boxes turned up, we throw medicine balls, every kind of plyometric, jump rope, dots, "Navy Seal Training" of pushups, situps and stairs. Just a TON of variety. Record boards of every imaginable test. Ladder boards, let them choose who they want to run against in the 40, 20 backwards, Open 400 etc. Hill work, stadium steps, pulling sleds, pushing sleds. Lots and lots of fun, hard work and sweat. All that said - kids get faster by running fast. They need to be in shape of course, but you don't get faster in the forty by running 200's. Now - there is nothing wrong with speed endurance but don't confuse it with running fast 40's. They are both important and need their own days. Jack Rarick Holt Football www.coachsvideoassistant.com
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Post by PSS on Nov 7, 2009 20:27:45 GMT -6
Gadgets - any kind of activity that is competitive - that is hard and fun. We run low hurdles over pizza boxes turned up, we throw medicine balls, every kind of plyometric, jump rope, dots, "Navy Seal Training" of pushups, situps and stairs. Just a TON of variety. Record boards of every imaginable test. Ladder boards, let them choose who they want to run against in the 40, 20 backwards, Open 400 etc. Hill work, stadium steps, pulling sleds, pushing sleds. Lots and lots of fun, hard work and sweat. All that said - kids get faster by running fast. They need to be in shape of course, but you don't get faster in the forty by running 200's. Now - there is nothing wrong with speed endurance but don't confuse it with running fast 40's. They are both important and need their own days. Jack Rarick Holt Football www.coachsvideoassistant.comAll of that is good. But I beg to differ that running the 200 or even the 400 will not make that kid a better football player. Isn't that the ultimate goal? Develop a well rounded football player that is not only physically tough but also mentally tough. Also stepping up and competing in an individual event will raise that athlete's level of performance in all aspects of his athletic endeavors.
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 7, 2009 23:30:02 GMT -6
I'd say the 400 is where you stop seeing benefits that could translate onto the football field. While I don't think training to be a 400 meter runner would be optimal for football speed, it takes someone with commitment, discipline, and some serious cojones to be a 400 runner. That's easily 20x the amount most players run in a play (~20 yards), but in the 4th quarter, that's the kid who isn't going to quit. He's got the vomit stains on his track spikes to prove it.
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Post by coachdawhip on Nov 8, 2009 11:48:37 GMT -6
Gadgets - any kind of activity that is competitive - that is hard and fun. We run low hurdles over pizza boxes turned up, we throw medicine balls, every kind of plyometric, jump rope, dots, "Navy Seal Training" of pushups, situps and stairs. Just a TON of variety. Record boards of every imaginable test. Ladder boards, let them choose who they want to run against in the 40, 20 backwards, Open 400 etc. Hill work, stadium steps, pulling sleds, pushing sleds. Lots and lots of fun, hard work and sweat. All that said - kids get faster by running fast. They need to be in shape of course, but you don't get faster in the forty by running 200's. Now - there is nothing wrong with speed endurance but don't confuse it with running fast 40's. They are both important and need their own days. Jack Rarick Holt Football www.coachsvideoassistant.comAll of that is good. But I beg to differ that running the 200 or even the 400 will not make that kid a better football player. Isn't that the ultimate goal? Develop a well rounded football player that is not only physically tough but also mentally tough. Also stepping up and competing in an individual event will raise that athlete's level of performance in all aspects of his athletic endeavors. The GOAL should be to develop BETTER ATHLETES then you worry about what sport they play.
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Post by PSS on Nov 8, 2009 12:26:02 GMT -6
All of that is good. But I beg to differ that running the 200 or even the 400 will not make that kid a better football player. Isn't that the ultimate goal? Develop a well rounded football player that is not only physically tough but also mentally tough. Also stepping up and competing in an individual event will raise that athlete's level of performance in all aspects of his athletic endeavors. The GOAL should be to develop BETTER ATHLETES then you worry about what sport they play. What is the purpose of that statement? What does it bring to this discussion?
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Post by jrarick on Nov 8, 2009 12:56:16 GMT -6
I'm a little confused too. I just wanted to make the point that even though we might have some football kids on our track team compete in the 400 - even the 800 and the 1600 we will still put in some time with 40's etc as you need to work that specific type of acceleration if you want to get faster at that distance.
I don't think it is ONE or the OTHER. I think you just need to be smart and plan your week for both. We try to balance our work load through out the week with a lot of different things for a lot of different kids.
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Post by PSS on Nov 8, 2009 13:02:39 GMT -6
Coachdawhip, As a football coach why wouldn't you want them competing and getting faster for football? As others and myself have stated on this thread, track has the ability to push athletes past their limits and make gains in speed development that can't be gained anywhere else. I'll give you several examples: the freshman receiver at Nebraska that from Dayton, TX was the state champion and set the state record in the 300 hurdles this past year; the freshman receiver at Texas was the fastest athlete in the state of Texas last spring running the fastest 100 m.; the kick returner at Texas was the fastest in the state of Texas the year before.
Now take avg athletes and make them run track, that is your off-season running program, and those kids get faster, and they get mentally tougher. As a bonus they learn how to compete in tough situations.
I've seen state champions do it at all levels in the state of Texas. So you can't tell me it can't be done.
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Post by phantom on Nov 8, 2009 13:37:20 GMT -6
Coachdawhip, As a football coach why wouldn't you want them competing and getting faster for football? As others and myself have stated on this thread, track has the ability to push athletes past their limits and make gains in speed development that can't be gained anywhere else. I'll give you several examples: the freshman receiver at Nebraska that from Dayton, TX was the state champion and set the state record in the 300 hurdles this past year; the freshman receiver at Texas was the fastest athlete in the state of Texas last spring running the fastest 100 m.; the kick returner at Texas was the fastest in the state of Texas the year before. Now take avg athletes and make them run track, that is your off-season running program, and those kids get faster, and they get mentally tougher. As a bonus they learn how to compete in tough situations. I've seen state champions do it at all levels in the state of Texas. So you can't tell me it can't be done. Does track make them faster or does track make fast football players into fast track athletes?
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Post by PSS on Nov 8, 2009 14:49:43 GMT -6
To answer your question Phantom. The programs that I have been around for the last 18 years, the athletes would go in to track season running the 4.5 or 4.6 forties and come out at the end of the season running 4.3 and 4.4 forties. Also keep in mind this was in combination off-season weight training. Remember, we are a little different in TX. We get our kids in a class everyday for off-season.
In Texas we start having track meets in early February and go through May. Some places have Fresh / JV meet one night and turn around and have Varsity meet the next. Everyone gets to run and compete and get better. Get faster and compete, that carries over to the FB in the fall. Those kids know how to battle through adversity. They worked their rear-end off, after an off-season workout, everyday to be better than everyone.
One other thing to keep in mind. The vast majority of track coaches in Texas, including Head TC are the football coaches.
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Post by PSS on Nov 8, 2009 15:59:11 GMT -6
An article about football and track. It focuses on the receiver from Texas but has a quote from the Texas Track Coach that was the Olympic coach. He states: "Track athletes, especially in events in which they compete alone, must dig deep inside themselves to find their peak performance at the right time." Again, this is the high level mental toughness and high level of competition that off-season programs can not offer. stats.nj.com/cfb/story.asp?i=20091022074344930000101&ref=rec&tm=83&src=CFB
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Post by jrarick on Nov 9, 2009 8:45:39 GMT -6
The biggest struggle - yet the greatest reward I have as a track-football coach is the difference in the sports. In football, everything is regimented, every kid knows where they are supposed to be every second and there is a coach with them to coach them. In track, many parts of their two hour workout is not "closely" supervised as our coaches spread out and coach different events with different kids at different times. A lot of time our athletes do their warmups on their own, cool downs, some station work, 40 sprints in small groups etc without the help of a coach MAKING them do their best. They have to find a way to push THEMSELVES. I'm not really sure, after doing this for 35 years, if we actually build character in our football/track kids, but we certainly reveal it. Jack Rarick Holt Football www.coachsvideoassistant.com
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Post by coach31 on Nov 9, 2009 10:32:28 GMT -6
We don't have JV track meets. We have exhibition after the competitive heats. I would love to "make" our guys run track, but I have found that there is little competitive benefit for athletes who are not top 3 on the team. I oversee all of our home meets and it seems like there is no reward for the lower end kids. Any ways to fix this?
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Post by calicoachh on Nov 9, 2009 15:52:15 GMT -6
IF you can play any other spring sport(baseball, volleyball, tennis, golf) then, by all means, go play that sport. otherwise, we don't cut anyone from the track team. It also helps that i am the head football coach and i coach the throwers on the track team. i don't understand it when football coaches discourage thier players from doing track, don't you want your guys faster and and your big guys more agile and with better balance and explosion? i have never seen a thread on this board ..." my guys are too fast"
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