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Post by gobigred on Aug 8, 2009 23:45:41 GMT -6
Ok - the debate I have heard a lot lately is to condition or not to condition during regular practice time. The arguement against is that the players, if going hard in indy, combo, etc. will be getting plenty of game specific running. Plus, by not taking time to condition, you add time to skill work. What are your thoughts and experience?
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 8, 2009 23:49:54 GMT -6
maybe in 2-a-days (fall camp) ... but once the season starts, create up-tempo practices that condition the players.
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Post by kylem56 on Aug 9, 2009 3:07:32 GMT -6
During two a days. We have a "competitive conditioning" session for 20 minutes where one day it may be sled races, relay races, parachute races, etc.
During the season, we try to use team offense (perfect play then sprint 50 yards), team defense (pursuit drill), or one of the special teams (KO, KOR, or PUNT) to get in our conditioning.
We try to make conditioning as football specific as possible during the season
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 9, 2009 3:30:20 GMT -6
Id rather strength train for 15 minutes than do a bunch of cals and monkey rolls and that useless stuff.
we lift 3-4 times a week during the season as part of our practice. we usually end practice with hills or relay races because sprinting a couple of times a week is a good thing in my opinion.
I like a county fair style set up for blocking adn tackling stations, I also like many reps at running our plays vs cone defenses, no huddle, just check assignments and go, fast pace, good conditioning and good way to keep athletes thinking assignments when gassed.
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Post by bluboy on Aug 9, 2009 6:45:12 GMT -6
Our conditioning is done through drill; meaning that we will do kick-off coverage, punt coverage, perfect plays or pursuit drills. We very rarely simply line-up and do sprints. Our kids lift after practice during pre-season and 2x a week after practice iin-season.
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Post by blb on Aug 9, 2009 7:01:38 GMT -6
First three days (helmets only) are supposed to be for conditioning and we will do quite a bit - still have a few stragglers who weren't around much in summer and need it.
After we put pads on we do more "finish" drills (something football-related) than running.
During season we do "concealed running" or finish drill at end of practice. We are concerned with their legs being fresh on game night.
We try to have very high tempo practices so kids get a lot of conditioning during.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 9, 2009 7:29:56 GMT -6
We do a lot like blu said above, drills that require lots of running several times to get conditioning in some days. I also like the idea of running 6-8 sprints right before a team period to get the a bit winded and more into that game situation feeling. I argue with our HC over the fact I just don't feel you can get all the conditioning you need just from practice, I don't think you can ever replicate the speed and intensity of a game during a practice. So I think you need to do some sort of conditioning before, during, after practice. I also think you need to be smart about it, do things that translate to football like kick off, pursuit, things like that. I love doing 10 and turns with the OL where they are only running 10 yds but the second they hit 10 yds they get down in a stance and have to sprint back on a cadence, get down and repeat about 10 times. Real quick, intense, conditioning that gets them some extra cond. pretty fast.
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Post by phantom on Aug 9, 2009 7:43:56 GMT -6
We run some after practice. Personally I don't know that we need to because we run a very high-tempo practice. The kids, though, seem to expect them, feel that it gives them an extra edge. Does it make a difference? I don't know. Physiologically, probably not. Mentally? Well, it seems to matter to them so I guess it does.
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Post by kcbazooka on Aug 9, 2009 9:07:49 GMT -6
We open practice with 10x20's - something we put in a couple of years ago. in the past we have done what was already mentioned - kickoff sprints, pursuit, etc. and we still do those types of conditioning at teh end of practice. but we like to start with straight out runs for conditioning and maybe more for pride. our kids will be playing both ways and they have to be in great shape. following the sprints is a session where they can cool down -- individual kicking drills, walk throughs, etc.
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Post by groundchuck on Aug 9, 2009 9:42:50 GMT -6
During our first 2-3 days we will run some county fair style circuits. But no monkey rolls LOL. They will be: 1. Bags 2. Ropes 3. Tire Flips 4. Pushups and situps 5. Reactions
After these first three days we are done with this. I believe in getting in shape by practicing football full speed. We do a ton of half-line at warp speed. For D practices we perform pursuit drills and tip drills. If one guy is not hustling it does not count. Something we are going to try this year is awarding points to how many defenders get to the ball carrier in pursuit drill within 'x" seconds of the first touch. The number of players who make a tag within that time will equal the points awarded (7 guys = 7 points.) Then go to 100 points or something like that.
In short we are rewarding hustle and proper angles.
I got this drill from a coach I worked with at another school. GENIUS game. It is called "Punt for Points."
Align 11 lines at the 40 yard line (going in). Then in the middle place your long snappers and kickers. Place a coach on the 10 yard line, the 5 yard line, and the goal line. Depending on your punter you could align closer or farther away.
Long snapper 1 will snap the ball to the punter who will punt the ball. He must call out the direction. LS and P will not run sprint down unless you have a bunch of those guys.
On the snap the 11 players on the line will chop thier feet and on the "THUD" of the ball being kicked they sprint down the field. They must find the ball and down it inside the 10. If the ball is downed between the 5-10 the team earns 1 point. Inside the 5 yardline 2 points. Inside the 2 yardline 3 points. Inside the 1 then 4 points. If the punter coffin corners it inside the 5 you get 5 points. If the ball goes in the endzone no points are awarded.
The other stipulation is all players must get to the downed punt within a few seconds of it being picked up. We will leave that to the coach's discression b/c the 5-9/310 pounder will not get there in 2 seconds for example. Once they have all huddled around the ball they will break it out and jog back around the outside of the field to thier lines. Also no points are awarded if the long snap is bad or if the punter does not call out a direction. We will put a stop watch to the longsnap-punt but not the first day.
We will play to 25 points for the team. We will have +/- 60 kids so when we 11 lines we'll have about 5-6 in a line when we pull out the long snappers and punters.
When you do this your kids will be busting-*** to get there.
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 9, 2009 15:34:01 GMT -6
we lift during the period on monday and wednesday .... but, we don't waste time simply lining up and "running" during afternoon practices.
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Post by windigo on Aug 9, 2009 16:08:28 GMT -6
We always condition. There is nothing worse than loosing a game because you were tired. But everyone gets tired. What I try and teach with the conditioning is the ability to dig deep when tired.
Here is the drill in macro terms. Tire them with about 10 mins of hard sprinting then introduce some kind of game usually a relay race where the winners are rewarded. This teaches the mind way more than the body. It teaches the ability to suck it up and play well when tired. I really regard this as mental conditioning not physical.
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Post by coachorr on Aug 9, 2009 16:09:54 GMT -6
Windigo, I like that.
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 9, 2009 18:16:49 GMT -6
We do a curcuit like dcohio says during 2 a days. we are at each station for 8-10 reps..we try to simulate an 8-10 play drive..so the kids do a rep and rest approx 45 sec's just like in a game. each rep is approx 6-8 sec's long...IMo..we get more high quality reps like this. the idea is to explode, change direction, finish and then rest..we call this an active rest..Rest IMO is one of the least coached part of a football play.what are you doing IN BETWEEN plays..well, you have to rest..gather information..get a plan..get into a stance
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Post by groundchuck on Aug 9, 2009 21:15:38 GMT -6
I really emphasize full speed reps. When we start practice next Monday we are going to demand our QB, FB, and HBs sprint full speed for 10 yards when repping midline (or any other play) in group time. If we are running option and the FB does not get the ball he better sprint 10 yards. If he gets the ball the other guys better sprint 10 yards carrying out fakes.
One it creates great habits and two it gets them in football shape.
Seven second bursts.
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Post by davecisar on Aug 10, 2009 4:57:52 GMT -6
When I played HS and College ball, we always ran sprints at the end of practice I always "left enough fuel in the tanK" during the last hour of practice to make sure I made a descent showing during sprints I want my youth kids to go all out at practice so we condition during practice, so they leave it all out on the practice field- My favorite:
All backups 15-20 yards away - line painted on field Offensive or defensive reps on air Rep- See all fits correct- yell rotate- Backups sprint in from line yelling who they are subbing for, when they get to where their partner is- they slap hands and their subbing partner sprints to get behind the line No one is allowed to cross line that isnt sprinting, No one is allowed to cross the line that isnt yelling his partners name out No one is allowed to go back in if they didnt sprint off the field
Allows us to: get real good at subbing correctly and quickly, condition, get everyone on our team involved and not standing around I call the cadence so we can get 1 rep every 12-20 seconds- backs run plays out 10 yards, linemen freeze on second step if they arent pulling- pullers go to POA
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tedseay
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Post by tedseay on Aug 10, 2009 5:33:50 GMT -6
"Just" conditioning is a waste of time, when you can be conditioning AND working on football skills.
Time is your most inelastic resource -- use it wisely.
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 10, 2009 10:43:48 GMT -6
"Just" conditioning is a waste of time, when you can be conditioning AND working on football skills. Time is your most inelastic resource -- use it wisely. Bingo... excellent point. "Time is the only thing we all have in common"
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Post by blb on Aug 10, 2009 11:08:56 GMT -6
Just to provide a little counterpoint for thought, one of all-time winningest coaches in our state said this:
"We believe in wind sprints. We do not try to disguise them. We do not try to make them fun. We run them for the literal hell of it...It is our objective to run one half-mile at maximum speed at the conclusion of every practice session."
He feels besides conditioning this builds up a pride in his teams that make them very difficult to beat and has led to many fourth quarter, come-from-behind victories. His kids believe that nobody could have run as much and thus worked as hard or endured as much they have, and thus they deserve to win.
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Post by formrbcbuc on Aug 19, 2009 12:47:55 GMT -6
What about situations where you are extremely thin at depth!?!? I'm coaching at the jv level and we have 6-7 backers depending on injuries or who is being moved up to the varsity and my players practice but are out of condition . when you couple this with the fact that only 3-4 of them are able to play full speed right now would it make sense to do extra positional conditioning with these players?!?! we run a 4-4 so I figure our LBs need to be the the players who are in the best shape.
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Post by coachorr on Aug 19, 2009 14:55:32 GMT -6
I cannot take the chance of having a team show up and lose because they are not in good enough shape. We have 8 to 10 two way players, so we need 4 quarter guys.
In the morning, we practice from 8 to 10 AM. To avoid what Cisar is speaking of (kids running practice like a marathon to save up for the last) we condition right after dynamic warm-up and stretch. Not only is it the coolest time of practice, kids condition harder and I believe that it conditions them to play through tiredness for the rest of practice.
Yesterday we did 12 50 yard sprints, however, we ran out of formation and a play and used a snap count. Each set of three sprints was a quarter of football. For every three correct plays we scored a touchdown per quarter, for every mistake (off-sides, dropped ball, step with the wrong foot anything) the other team scored a touchdown. We want to win by 21 points, if not we run extra.
In the evenings, we condition at the end of practice, however, we will work on a team concept while we do it ie: pursuit drill, kickoff team on air, punt team etc etc.
During practice, the linemen push the sled alot, backs and receivers run a lot of routes. If we make a major mistake on offense during a team period like Inside run, Skelly, team, Pass under Pressure (off sides, fumble, etc.) we will do extra conditioning during each period.
Here is an example of an inside run period for 15 minutes and how the consequences get progressively harder with each mistake made. It is two fold, extra conditioning makes it harder to do it perfect so the kids have to be even more focused with each progression in the consequences.
Fumble: Everyone in the drill O and D does 10 Pushups Off sides: Everyone on the team does 15 push-ups (unless it is the dline) Missed block (subjective): Everyone runs a gasser. Fumble: Everyone runs two gassers. Off sides: Everyone runs 100 yards of bear crawl hit-its Jogging out of the huddle: Everyonr runs 200 yards of bear crawls.
It isn't punishment, however, in a game if these mistakes are made, we all suffer the consequence. On day one and two it was kind of a B., but lately we have only been getting up to 15 pushups and that is a rare occasion.
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Post by phantom on Aug 20, 2009 11:51:33 GMT -6
What about situations where you are extremely thin at depth!?!? I'm coaching at the jv level and we have 6-7 backers depending on injuries or who is being moved up to the varsity and my players practice but are out of condition . when you couple this with the fact that only 3-4 of them are able to play full speed right now would it make sense to do extra positional conditioning with these players?!?! we run a 4-4 so I figure our LBs need to be the the players who are in the best shape. You could make the argument that this is exactly the situation in which you do NOT need extra conditioning since all of the players are getting a lot of good work at practice.
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Post by formrbcbuc on Aug 20, 2009 12:23:14 GMT -6
What about situations where you are extremely thin at depth!?!? I'm coaching at the jv level and we have 6-7 backers depending on injuries or who is being moved up to the varsity and my players practice but are out of condition . when you couple this with the fact that only 3-4 of them are able to play full speed right now would it make sense to do extra positional conditioning with these players?!?! we run a 4-4 so I figure our LBs need to be the the players who are in the best shape. You could make the argument that this is exactly the situation in which you do NOT need extra conditioning since all of the players are getting a lot of good work at practice. We run practice at a high tempo, but they still seem winded before we even start practice. It is getting better but they were getting tired during our dynamic stretching at the JV level. Unlike our varsity players a good number of the JV did not do their off-season conditioning and lifting. I don't run them into the gound we do a mixture of drills such as up downs, sprint, pace, jog around the field while at the 50 and the corners of the endzone doing 15 push ups and crunches for about 5 minutes via position. Also gassers are done, usually 4-5 with a minute,minute and a half in between. I can see how it could be a problem but I figure since we are so thing at depth if we are not in top conditiong deeper teams will wear us down.
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Post by realdawg on Aug 20, 2009 17:11:17 GMT -6
First, our players are are in pretty decent shape after going through our winter, spring, and summer programs. After dynamic warmup, we go through a series of speed and agility drills. At first there were 5 stations, chaos, circle, shuttle, box, and T. Somedays we may not do all 5 but especially the first few days we do. Each station is 2 and a half minutes long. We are stressing the agility and speed part of the drill, but after 15 minutes of it, the kids get a pretty good workout. We also start each indy period with some kind of running drill (i.e. LBs might do some back drills, dbs might do some back pedal and break on the ball stuff) After practice we may run a little (5 40s or so) more for tradition than anything else. (Unless we have a bad practice.)
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Post by alneufeld on Aug 20, 2009 21:42:38 GMT -6
My payers came in rotten shape, so we have been running their butts off. They are tired, but getting there. 2-a-days end soon, and we make them condition every day.
One of the best drills I've used is to run no huddle O vs D up and down the field. They have to respond and work hard with little rest. Seemed to work pretty well.
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Post by phantom on Aug 21, 2009 9:56:32 GMT -6
You could make the argument that this is exactly the situation in which you do NOT need extra conditioning since all of the players are getting a lot of good work at practice. We run practice at a high tempo, but they still seem winded before we even start practice. It is getting better but they were getting tired during our dynamic stretching at the JV level. Unlike our varsity players a good number of the JV did not do their off-season conditioning and lifting. I don't run them into the gound we do a mixture of drills such as up downs, sprint, pace, jog around the field while at the 50 and the corners of the endzone doing 15 push ups and crunches for about 5 minutes via position. Also gassers are done, usually 4-5 with a minute,minute and a half in between. I can see how it could be a problem but I figure since we are so thing at depth if we are not in top conditiong deeper teams will wear us down. Your argument is better than mine for those circumstances.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Aug 21, 2009 14:13:14 GMT -6
I respect and understand the many posts regarding building conditioning into well organized drills and agility sessions.
For us, however, conditioning is not solely about building better legs and lungs; it is about showing young men that they have more in them than they ever thought possible. We continually discuss building heart and feeding the spirit and our kids take great pride in knowing that there's not a better conditioned team in our league.
Furthermore, by conditioning at the beginning of practice as opposed to the end, our kids must demonstrate mental fortitude for the myriad drills and team sessions that follow. We believe this pays great dividends in the second half.
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Post by alneufeld on Aug 22, 2009 0:26:18 GMT -6
I respect and understand the many posts regarding building conditioning into well organized drills and agility sessions. For us, however, conditioning is not solely about building better legs and lungs; it is about showing young men that they have more in them than they ever thought possible. We continually discuss building heart and feeding the spirit and our kids take great pride in knowing that there's not a better conditioned team in our league. Furthermore, by conditioning at the beginning of practice as opposed to the end, our kids must demonstrate mental fortitude for the myriad drills and team sessions that follow. We believe this pays great dividends in the second half. Sounds like a great idea.
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