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Post by fantom on Jul 9, 2015 11:53:47 GMT -6
Track athletes run longer than their event at the beginning of the season to build up their base endurance then get specific conditioning for their event as the season progresses. 100 runners run 300's 200 runners run 400's 400 runners run 600-800's So I think it's perfectly acceptable to run 300yd shuttles at the beginning of the season to build a base conditioning that gets more football specific as the season approaches Coach--are you talking training or testing. That is the point. I realize this is a 6 year old thread, but my issue with the 300 yd shuttle as a test is that I think it is "biased". Same with running 120's/100's. Much easier for the skill guys (in my opinion) than the bigger guys. As far as using a test to see "who worked out during the summer and who didn't" I think it is important to recognize that football is administered (for lack of a better word) differently in different places. At the schools I have worked with in Louisiana, it is easy to see who worked out and who didnt. You look at the role sheet. I realize that is not the case in other places. I'm not a fan of conditioning tests. They had a place back in the day but with year-round programs now there doesn't seem to be much point in most cases especially if the standard is high. If our best lineman fails a running test by a few seconds am I not going to give him equipment? The only conditioning test that I like is "Watching them in practice". |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 9, 2015 12:10:58 GMT -6
Coach--are you talking training or testing. That is the point. I realize this is a 6 year old thread, but my issue with the 300 yd shuttle as a test is that I think it is "biased". Same with running 120's/100's. Much easier for the skill guys (in my opinion) than the bigger guys. As far as using a test to see "who worked out during the summer and who didn't" I think it is important to recognize that football is administered (for lack of a better word) differently in different places. At the schools I have worked with in Louisiana, it is easy to see who worked out and who didnt. You look at the role sheet. I realize that is not the case in other places. I'm not a fan of conditioning tests. They had a place back in the day but with year-round programs now there doesn't seem to be much point in most cases especially if the standard is high. If our best lineman fails a running test by a few seconds am I not going to give him equipment? The only conditioning test that I like is "Watching them in practice". I realize this is a slipperly slope type of argument, and I go back and forth myself on certain aspects of these things, but I agree. What does the test "do" for you, keeping in mind we are talking about HS kids (13-18 year olds). For example, regarding the legendary Earl Cambell conditioning test story--you are dealing with pro athletes. There is little risk of any turmoil in the program being caused by a lesser player griping "why doesn't HE have to pass the test. I passed the test, I should be playing" At the HS level, the mindset of a 15 year old might be a bit different. So as fantom points out...what are you going to do with a conditioning test. Lets say your best players aren't your best conditioned players. What happens then? I read a lot of replies that say "oh, he starts at the bottom of the depth chart" etc. etc. (Insert eyeroll here). How many HS teams have that deep and competitive a roster that there is razor thin edge between 1 and 2 across the boards? |
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Post by coachklee on Jul 9, 2015 14:24:03 GMT -6
Interesting thread...at a previous stop we did a 240 yard shuttle.
Little
Skills were expected to come in under 45. Add 11 or so seconds would be 56 for a 300.
Tweeners (bigger backs & smaller linemen) had to be under 55. Add 14 would be 69/1:09 for a 300.
Big Skills (I coach line & their skilled dammit) had to be under 70. Add about 18 would put them at 88/1:28 for a 300.
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 9, 2015 18:54:30 GMT -6
we do the 300 shuttle once a week, my 7 thru 12 do it, I made it pretty easy at first, 2 min, now we are down to 75 sec, I don't jump their tail if they don't make it, the kids like it, I track it and they try to get their times down, 60 sec is a good time to make, fat guys won't do it, skill guys can beat it
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jul 9, 2015 20:43:55 GMT -6
Mniike
That is a ton of running! Lol
To some other posters ,
One question I have is, the 400 is anaerobic , so how is the 300 shuttle aerobic?
And if u r just doing it to see who lifted and ran, what in the world are u guys doing in offseason and summer pride? ( ok that was 2 questions)
Like someone said, u know who came check the roll sheet.
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Post by olinedude on Jul 10, 2015 0:13:47 GMT -6
I won't chime in on why to do a 300 yd shuttle but the times your talking about are very reasonable. We did 10 300yd shuttles and the majority of my lineman were under 70 seconds for all 10 with about 1:30-2:00 rest between each. We're talking 300 lb guys too finishing around a minute for each of them.
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Post by mnike23 on Jul 10, 2015 7:19:47 GMT -6
It is a ton of running, but I relate it to a game. Not every play is 70 yds or 30 or 50 etc.
It's 5 one time and the next is 40. Around 125 plays a game, maybe more maybe not.
The day we do 4th qtr, it's all we do. And normally they have Friday thru Monday off.
Always right before fall camp starts. It's a test of testicular fortitude and mental toughness.
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Post by aimeeg on Aug 22, 2016 9:42:22 GMT -6
My 13 year old runs the 300 (50x6) in 45 sec.
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Post by realdawg on Aug 22, 2016 11:17:14 GMT -6
25 or 50 yard turns? We did 50 when we did it and used 60 65. And 70 seconds for the 3 groups. Most of them can make those times. Especially if you consider 60.99 as 60.
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Post by rosey65 on Aug 22, 2016 12:33:13 GMT -6
It tests your "guts," which is fine, but what else? When I was in HS, we had a conditioning ladder (240 yards, post-post and back, in 45 seconds, 30 sec rest, x10) we had to pass in order to get our shoulder pads. This helped to "encourage" us to work out in the offseason. If you didnt pass, you had to come back the next morning before double days and run again, running every day until you passed. There was always a day in the 2nd week that the linemen had their times fudged. This had a very clear purpose: 1 was to encourage us to run in the offseason, and 2 was to weed out the people who really didnt want to play.
What does your 300yard shuttle measure? What is its purpose? And most importantly, what happens if they fail?
As a coach at my current program, we dont have a need for any type of conditioning ladder. We work out year-round, and we train with the goal to be in shape in August...and we are never in good enough shape. That's what conditioning is for. No one, players nor coaches, need an arbitrary number to determine just how out-of-shape your team is.
I'll liken this to a similar thread about grading OL film. I dont need concrete proof that my backup RT sucks. I know he sucks. I also dont want to put my 315lb C or uncoordinated Soph OLB on a clock, knowing they wont meet my arbitrary standard. If you want to do a test, I'd say have the team together and PRACTICE for said test. Like the OP said, we do a bench press test, but we spend 6 months in the weight room practicing bench.
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Post by brophy on Aug 22, 2016 12:52:44 GMT -6
one question
if this is a Conditioning Test, I'm curious what the hell your (strength & conditioning) program has been doing with these kids the past 8 months?
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Post by gian3074 on Aug 22, 2016 14:48:39 GMT -6
Why do you think that the NFL teams still use the 300 yard shuttle for their conditioning test? I'm not one to assume that because an NFL team does it means it's magic, but do you think they do them because they work or because "It's what we've always done?"
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Post by fantom on Aug 22, 2016 19:23:36 GMT -6
Why do you think that the NFL teams still use the 300 yard shuttle for their conditioning test? I'm not one to assume that because an NFL team does it means it's magic, but do you think they do them because they work or because "It's what we've always done?" In the NFL after minicamps in mid-June they don't see the players again until camp starts late in July. |
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Post by 53 on Aug 22, 2016 20:18:53 GMT -6
If I'm going to test their toughness, it sure as hell isn't going to be in running them.
I want to test them at game like situations as much as possible.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 22, 2016 20:24:28 GMT -6
Why do you think that the NFL teams still use the 300 yard shuttle for their conditioning test? I'm not one to assume that because an NFL team does it means it's magic, but do you think they do them because they work or because "It's what we've always done?" Because there is a HUGE population of players to choose from. NFL teams can set the standard as high as they want because labor is such an expendable asset. And I guarantee you that if an NFL team had a guy who was $hitty at the 300-yard shuttle but played at an all-Pro level, that dude is making the team regardless of what the stopwatch says. |
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Post by gian3074 on Aug 22, 2016 20:32:13 GMT -6
Why do you think that the NFL teams still use the 300 yard shuttle for their conditioning test? I'm not one to assume that because an NFL team does it means it's magic, but do you think they do them because they work or because "It's what we've always done?" Because there is a HUGE population of players to choose from. NFL teams can set the standard as high as they want because labor is such an expendable asset. And I guarantee you that if an NFL team had a guy who was $hitty at the 300-yard shuttle but played at an all-Pro level, that dude is making the team regardless of what the stopwatch says. I was wondering if it could also be that NFL teams use it not as a way to test your conditioning but as a way to test how you take your offseason program. Albert Haynesworth years ago failed his test in Washington and Shanahan refused to let him practice until he did. This year in Buffalo Karlos Williams came to camp overweight, out of shape and was put on the Non-Football Illness list until he finally passed. He was cut anyway. We're also talking about the NFL which is a completely different situation so I probably shouldn't put too much thought into it but it made me think. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 22, 2016 20:55:27 GMT -6
Because there is a HUGE population of players to choose from. NFL teams can set the standard as high as they want because labor is such an expendable asset. And I guarantee you that if an NFL team had a guy who was $hitty at the 300-yard shuttle but played at an all-Pro level, that dude is making the team regardless of what the stopwatch says. I was wondering if it could also be that NFL teams use it not as a way to test your conditioning but as a way to test how you take your offseason program. Albert Haynesworth years ago failed his test in Washington and Shanahan refused to let him practice until he did. This year in Buffalo Karlos Williams came to camp overweight, out of shape and was put on the Non-Football Illness list until he finally passed. He was cut anyway. We're also talking about the NFL which is a completely different situation so I probably shouldn't put too much thought into it but it made me think. Haynesworth's failed conditioning test in Washington was just the tip of the iceberg. There is a reason that Washington signed him. Washington essentially bid against themselves...there really weren't any other takers for Haynesworth (maybe a couple other bad teams). Most NFL GMs knew Haynesworth played his a$$ off his last year in Tennessee because it was his contract year. The scout on Haynesworth is that he would return to his traditional turdishness after getting paid. That's pretty much what happened. In fact, he is considered one of the all-time biggest free agent busts in NFL history. Although I'm sure he isn't losing any sleep! Karlos Williams is a running back. That is probably the most expendable position in the NFL right now. |
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Post by fantom on Aug 22, 2016 21:05:08 GMT -6
I was wondering if it could also be that NFL teams use it not as a way to test your conditioning but as a way to test how you take your offseason program. Albert Haynesworth years ago failed his test in Washington and Shanahan refused to let him practice until he did. This year in Buffalo Karlos Williams came to camp overweight, out of shape and was put on the Non-Football Illness list until he finally passed. He was cut anyway. We're also talking about the NFL which is a completely different situation so I probably shouldn't put too much thought into it but it made me think. Haynesworth's failed conditioning test in Washington was just the tip of the iceberg. There is a reason that Washington signed him. Washington essentially bid against themselves...there really weren't any other takers for Haynesworth (maybe a couple other bad teams). Most NFL GMs knew Haynesworth played his a$$ off his last year in Tennessee because it was his contract year. The scout on Haynesworth is that he would return to his traditional turdishness after getting paid. That's pretty much what happened. In fact, he is considered one of the all-time biggest free agent busts in NFL history. Although I'm sure he isn't losing any sleep! Karlos Williams is a running back. That is probably the most expendable position in the NFL right now. I just read that he'd also been suspended for violating the league's drug policy. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 22, 2016 21:18:21 GMT -6
Haynesworth's failed conditioning test in Washington was just the tip of the iceberg. There is a reason that Washington signed him. Washington essentially bid against themselves...there really weren't any other takers for Haynesworth (maybe a couple other bad teams). Most NFL GMs knew Haynesworth played his a$$ off his last year in Tennessee because it was his contract year. The scout on Haynesworth is that he would return to his traditional turdishness after getting paid. That's pretty much what happened. In fact, he is considered one of the all-time biggest free agent busts in NFL history. Although I'm sure he isn't losing any sleep! Karlos Williams is a running back. That is probably the most expendable position in the NFL right now. I just read that he'd also been suspended for violating the league's drug policy. Yeah. Fat, middling running backs with a drug problem and $hitty attitudes don't have particularly long NFL careers. |
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Post by carookie on Aug 22, 2016 21:36:35 GMT -6
Why do you think that the NFL teams still use the 300 yard shuttle for their conditioning test? I'm not one to assume that because an NFL team does it means it's magic, but do you think they do them because they work or because "It's what we've always done?" I honestly believe its because "thats the way things have always been done" and to "show players how hard things are". Having now coached with a number of guys who coached and played in the league, and having visited a handful of NFL training camps, I don't think there is much that they do coaching wise that would translate to success on the HS level. |
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