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Post by phantom on May 15, 2009 19:59:58 GMT -6
This is not a fan post because I have no particular interest in the Indianapolis Colts but they just lost their OC and OL coach. Longtime OL coach Howard Mudd and OC Tom Moore retired because of, IMO, foolishly shortsighted nickel and diming on the part of the Colts.
How will this effect the Colts? How will it effect the coaching profession in general?
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Post by kylem56 on May 15, 2009 20:04:38 GMT -6
It should be interesting. The old saying "its not the X and Os but the jimmies and joes" is always said but I think it applies the most to the NFL level. From the sounds of it though, according to Bill Polian they have been grooming other guys on staff for when this day would come. These retirements may have an effect on the team but I doubt any of us will be able to notice.
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Post by phantom on May 15, 2009 20:11:50 GMT -6
These are not guys who will be easily replaced.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2009 20:58:14 GMT -6
I was under the impression these retirements had more to do with the NFL changing the pensions of assistant coaches. Granted, I guess the Colts could have raised salaries to offset those pension changes, but in this economy, unfortunately everyone has their limits.
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Post by adw30 on May 16, 2009 1:04:15 GMT -6
I doubt this will have much affect on what the Colts will do offensively next season. Clyde Christensen the new OC was the receivers coach and has been on staff since 2002. Obviously a new coordinator may bring a few new ideas to the table, but the Colts offense will remain intact as long as Peyton Manning is the quarterback.
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Post by ftbll7801 on May 16, 2009 1:57:48 GMT -6
IMO Mudd will be sorely missed. He does a great job and has turned out a group that isnt near as touted as some others but always produces results....
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Post by brophy on May 16, 2009 5:09:14 GMT -6
wow - How do you replace Mudd?
How much of this would be convenience for both parties to exit given they have a new header, as well?
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Post by coachd5085 on May 16, 2009 6:33:03 GMT -6
wow - How do you replace Mudd? How much of this would be convenience for both parties to exit given they have a new header, as well? I think this is definitely a contributing factor. 35 years in the league...at 70 years old, it isn't entirely about the money.
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Post by wingtol on May 16, 2009 7:31:27 GMT -6
wow - How do you replace Mudd? How much of this would be convenience for both parties to exit given they have a new header, as well? I think this is definitely a contributing factor. 35 years in the league...at 70 years old, it isn't entirely about the money. No but from what I read the benefits in their pension changed so I would guess at that age the benefits are pretty important. On the football side I would imagine Manning knows the O inside and out and nothing will change with that. Now the loss of Mudd could prove to be a huge loss for them, look what he did with that line last year. He will hurt them more than losing Moore. But then again look at what the Steelers did after a total re-haul of their staff as well the last few years.
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Post by spreadattack on May 16, 2009 8:38:07 GMT -6
Mudd is huge, and I think the loss of Moore is more significant than people might think.
I know Peyton Manning is still there but it seems to me that there's a lot more turnover at the Colts than people think. Lots of the parts that made them so good for so many years (even with only one Super Bowl, if you look at total games won over the past however many years it is Patriots and Colts and no one else), are fading out.
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Post by phantom on May 16, 2009 9:11:13 GMT -6
wow - How do you replace Mudd? How much of this would be convenience for both parties to exit given they have a new header, as well? Broph, the NFL very quietly passed a new rule allowing teams to opt out of the league pension program for coaches. The Colts were one of five or six to make the move. That's what I meant by "nickle and diming". I do not believe that you can lose the coordinator of one of the most consistently productive offenses and a highly respected OL coach and just go on like it's business as usual.
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Post by airman on May 16, 2009 15:21:22 GMT -6
moore had retired, then unretired and now retired again.
former buffalo bills qb frank reich in now the qb coach. he was on the staff last year.
it is interesting how the colts have quickly moved away from the dungy era. they drafted 2 big defensive tackles and are going to play more man coverage under the new dc.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 16, 2009 17:48:02 GMT -6
I think this is definitely a contributing factor. 35 years in the league...at 70 years old, it isn't entirely about the money. No but from what I read the benefits in their pension changed so I would guess at that age the benefits are pretty important. At that age, you are SPENDING a pension, not contributing and earning credit for it. The only way change in the pension program would financially matter much to coaches with 35 years in the system would be something causing a forfeiture of benefits, which I can not possibly imagine being the case. I think it is more what another poster alluded to. A lack of respect type of situation combined with the coaching changes
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byuwolverine
Junior Member
Life is a game of inches --- Add them up in any aspect and there is your outcome.
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Post by byuwolverine on May 16, 2009 19:40:59 GMT -6
I like how Tom Moore predicated his offense on repetition and simplicity, getting big plays of the stretch and its multiple play action options, but I felt he just needed to add a bit more in terms of formations and motions.
Don't get me wrong I am a big fan I just feel that there can always be too many and too little and I feel that he and peyton could have had more success by spicing it up formation wise to make the defense re check multiple assignments.
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Post by Coach JR on May 18, 2009 9:13:21 GMT -6
It should be interesting. The old saying "its not the X and Os but the jimmies and joes" is always said but I think it applies the most to the NFL level. From the sounds of it though, according to Bill Polian they have been grooming other guys on staff for when this day would come. These retirements may have an effect on the team but I doubt any of us will be able to notice. Just my honest opinion, but it would seem that the talent level differentual from the best NFL team to the worst isn't that great. We all know that some teams have a better QB, or RB, or WR than others, but I'm talking across the board. Also, I think QB is the primary factor in a teams success in the NFL. Yes you can win with a game manager like a Trent Dilfer, but that's the exception, not the rule. "Scheme" woud seem to matter more at this level. Or, rather scheme, and fitting scheme to fit personnel. I can't help but think that the Colts will suffer at the loss of so much of it's brain trust, but I believe that Peyton Manning has been, is, and will be the de facto OC. Unless there's a complete overhaul with trades and draft picks, the Colts had their window, and they capitalized with a Super Bowl win...Peyton is playing for Hall of Fame stats now, whether he realizes it or not. They've lost too much in coaches and player the last few years.
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Post by coachdawhip on May 20, 2009 17:21:57 GMT -6
wow - How do you replace Mudd? How much of this would be convenience for both parties to exit given they have a new header, as well? Broph, the NFL very quietly passed a new rule allowing teams to opt out of the league pension program for coaches. The Colts were one of five or six to make the move. That's what I meant by "nickle and diming". I do not believe that you can lose the coordinator of one of the most consistently productive offenses and a highly respected OL coach and just go on like it's business as usual. NOT TRUE!!!!The Colts are still on the old plan. Their former teams are the one screwing them sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/17/nfl/index.html
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Post by coachdawhip on May 20, 2009 17:23:23 GMT -6
For the record. I think the colts will be fine, but they haven't made smart moves since winning the title to add any real pieces.
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Post by phantom on May 20, 2009 17:30:31 GMT -6
Broph, the NFL very quietly passed a new rule allowing teams to opt out of the league pension program for coaches. The Colts were one of five or six to make the move. That's what I meant by "nickle and diming". I do not believe that you can lose the coordinator of one of the most consistently productive offenses and a highly respected OL coach and just go on like it's business as usual. NOT TRUE!!!!The Colts are still on the old plan. Their former teams are the one screwing them sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/17/nfl/index.htmlOK. Thanks. I didn't know that.
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Post by fbdoc on May 22, 2009 7:46:58 GMT -6
Saw a blurb on ESPN today that both Moore and Mudd would be coming back as "Consultants". Probably a way to get paid a fee rather than a salary.
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
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Post by hoosier on May 24, 2009 11:41:10 GMT -6
it is interesting how the colts have quickly moved away from the dungy era. they drafted 2 big defensive tackles and are going to play more man coverage under the new dc. i havent heard anything about more man coverage. Coyer spent last year with the Buccs (Tampa 2) and seems to indicate the defense will be much the same. Polian said thats one of the reasons they wanted to higher him too; he didnt want to change much. knowing Hayden and Jackson as i do, i think it would benifit them to continue the zone schemes. neither are really good man CBs in my opinion. the Colts have always had a good turnover rate since Polian and Dungy have been there. "next man up" has been their slogan. they have to apply that to the coaching staff now. im glad, as a fan, that Mudd and Moore will be consultants (whatever that means) but they will be missed. what made them so great i think is that they've been around so long, have seen every problem, and know how to fix it.
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