mce86
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Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on May 8, 2009 14:13:26 GMT -6
Okay, I am a math teacher for freshmen and sophs...we were talking about dimensional analysis (changing yards to feet, quarts to gallons, etc)
I asked two football players...one a sophomore, how many yards is a first down? Student 1 "3?" Student 2 (with confidence) "no, its 12 you idiot."
Stunned, I then asked student 2...how long he thinks a football field is....response...."6 feet"
Um, no.
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Post by catz1 on May 8, 2009 14:22:04 GMT -6
Okay, I am a math teacher for freshmen and sophs...we were talking about dimensional analysis (changing yards to feet, quarts to gallons, etc) I asked two football players...one a sophomore, how many yards is a first down? Student 1 "3?" Student 2 (with confidence) "no, its 12 you idiot." Stunned, I then asked student 2...how long he thinks a football field is....response...."6 feet" Um, no. Guess you'll need to keep your schemes pretty simple this year...
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Post by mrronnied14 on May 8, 2009 14:23:38 GMT -6
You are pulling my chain right? They can't be that "special."
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Post by schultbear74 on May 8, 2009 18:33:27 GMT -6
Sounds like a few young'uns need to have their vasectomy early on.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2009 18:44:15 GMT -6
what position do they play?
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Post by camppack on May 8, 2009 19:32:21 GMT -6
I've thought for some time that kids growing up today don't understand the basics of the game as well as in the past. I think one problem is a lack of exposure to the game. So many of the kids I coach don't regularly watch or follow high school, college or NFL football.
When I was growing up (walking uphill 10 miles through the snow to school) my family was at a high school game every Friday even before I was old enough to play. I couldn't wait for Saturday to sit in a trance in front of the TV watching college football (Bo, Woody, Ara...those were the days!) Even more exciting were the actual college games I attended with my dad. These were the experiences that taught me the basics of the game and provided a foundation on which my coaches could build on once I started playing.
Today's kids are often kept overly scheduled by their parents. Their parents also have little time to "waste" sitting around watching football. When the kids are not busy with activities they are entertained by video games, computers, etc. When I attend college or NFL games these days I see few kids, probably due to the high cost of tickets and schedules built around TV (7:00pm start for kids?).
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Post by coachorr on May 9, 2009 8:47:48 GMT -6
My six year old knows the answer to these questions. Just goes to show, that parents need to be more involved in the development of their children. They should already know this before they get to you.
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Post by coachorr on May 9, 2009 8:56:11 GMT -6
I've thought for some time that kids growing up today don't understand the basics of the game as well as in the past. I believe the exact opposite is true. My kid has been playing NCAA on play station for two years and he knows way more (an infinite amount more) about the game than I ever did at the age of 6. When he is not playing play station he is watching a game on the DVR. I made sure to save some games of his favorite NFL and college teams and he watches them quite a bit. When the whether is outside we are either running routes or playing basketball by 2's and 3's, because of that he knows how to add by twos and threes and he can tell you the difference in the score as well. The point, parent involvement, or lack thereof.
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Post by tiger46 on May 9, 2009 9:08:38 GMT -6
I'm not trying to point fingers here. But, as coaches, who do we think is responsible for our players knowing such information? I'm a youth coach. I've learned to never assume a player- at any level- knows anything that you haven't directly taught to him. I live right across the street from my kids' Jr. High. I've been to a Jr. High game and saw stances so terrible, it's as if the players had never been taught. Although, I've walked by their practices and saw the coaches working with them. I've been to a HS game and heard a player getting chewed out by his coach for something that he didn't know. So, not only do we have the responsibility to teach things to them, we have to hammer those things into their heads repeatedly. For my 9>10yr old players, I've gotten out tape measures, cones, etc... to show them what 3ft./1yrd means. Show them how far 10yrds are. I do the math on my whiteboard for them and make them participate. Punts are rare at youth level. To make them understand playing downhill, in defensive drills, I demonstrate the difference of giving up 2.5yrds(first down) and giving up 2yrds(our ball) per play. On offense, we stress to them what it means to strive for that little extra half-yard. Is it crucial that a player knows the conversion of feet to yards? Probably not. But, it is fundamental knowledge what we coaches want them to have. Maybe we go overboard. But, it seems to help them understand the game of football better. Example: My LB's are 4yrds off the LOS. When I mark 2.5 yrds off from the LOS, they get to visually see just how little margin for error they have. They have to read, react and get to the ball-carrier quickly with good technique and bad attitude.
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Post by coachorr on May 9, 2009 9:41:53 GMT -6
I Although, I've walked by their practices and saw the coaches working with them. I've been to a HS game and heard a player getting chewed out by his coach for something that he didn't know. If only high schools would realize that the youth coaches should be the ones coaching the kids they would see that they would win more games. I just heard this comment this year in fact. High school programs need good youth programs for their success, however, there is a big difference in competition between trying to win 6 or 7 youth games or trying to win a 5A state title.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 10, 2009 13:25:52 GMT -6
Okay, I am a math teacher for freshmen and sophs...we were talking about dimensional analysis (changing yards to feet, quarts to gallons, etc) I asked two football players...one a sophomore, how many yards is a first down? Student 1 "3?" Student 2 (with confidence) "no, its 12 you idiot." Stunned, I then asked student 2...how long he thinks a football field is....response...."6 feet" Um, no. Guess you'll need to keep your schemes pretty simple this year... Not necessarily. So...they don't know their measurements. Maybe they'd know them in meters. Doesn't matter. They see the distances. How far do you have to go for first down? Answer: from this stick to that stick. How long is the field? A: from this chalk line to that line. Similarly, the only reason to look at your speedometer while driving is when they're clocking you with radar or other means. Otherwise, you see how fast you're going, and can tell whether that's a safe speed for the conditions.
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Post by atalbert on May 14, 2009 11:47:33 GMT -6
The lesson he learned this year was a very expensive lesson as the kid who took his place is no where close to as athletic, but he has 2 other qualities - he was smart and he was disciplined and you know...if you are smart and disciplined, then you can get away with being a little less athletic because you aren't out of position to begin with." Dumb kids don't cut it. My Sam last year was a physical freak who absolutely loved to run into things full speed. Problem was, I don't know if he ever watched a football game. I tried coaching him up and showed him film of himself making wrong reads, etc. The final straw was a game where I counted him dropping into pass coverage 14 times (yes, I counted)...when they were RUNNING AT HIM. He wouldn't admit it, but I KNOW he thought the tackle coming to get him was the TE going out for a pass. I asked him who he was keying on and he admitted he had no idea. The problem was that the one of 5 plays when he was in the right spot, he picked up the RB and choke slammed him with 1 hand and knocked him out of the game. If he was anywhere close to where he needed to be, he made a big hit. I got so pi$$ed that I benched him the next game and put a kid with half of his talent in and it was amazing. He was where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there. Granted, he missed a couple tackles and got steamrolled once, but he still "made the play" when the FB tripped over his head. The physical specimen quit Week 8 because football wasn't fun anymore (translation: its not jr. high anymore where I can run around and be the biggest, strongest kid. Now, I actually have to put effort into this) The replacement filled in and did a nice job...solely because he was smart enough to understand he needed to be smart to survive
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Post by phantom on May 14, 2009 12:11:01 GMT -6
Guess you'll need to keep your schemes pretty simple this year... Not necessarily. So...they don't know their measurements. Maybe they'd know them in meters. Doesn't matter. They see the distances. How far do you have to go for first down? Answer: from this stick to that stick. How long is the field? A: from this chalk line to that line. Similarly, the only reason to look at your speedometer while driving is when they're clocking you with radar or other means. Otherwise, you see how fast you're going, and can tell whether that's a safe speed for the conditions. On paper, true. The fact is this info is fourth grade stuff and these kids don't know it. That means that it's fair to infer that there's a lot of other stuff that they don't know or figure out.
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Post by casec11 on May 15, 2009 6:41:26 GMT -6
It sounds like they were confused by the question and not paying attention, when the first kid answered 3 maybe he thought you asked how many feet in a yard.... the second kid...who knows... at least I hope they were confused.
[glow=red,2,300]coachorr wrote: If only high schools would realize that the youth coaches should be the ones coaching the kids they would see that they would win more games. [/glow] I don't think he was stating that at all. I think he was trying to say some coaches assume the kids know how to do or what things are no mater what the level and don't teach them the details enough.
[glow=red,2,300]coachorr wrote: I just heard this comment this year in fact[/glow] It must have been from a loon, although you can find many great coaches in the youth ranks as well as some terrible ones
[glow=red,2,300]coachorr wrote:High school programs need good youth programs for their success, however, there is a big difference in competition between trying to win 6 or 7 youth games or trying to win a 5A state title. [/glow] I do not think that all high school programs need that. Some youth leagues have 11 games plus 3round playoffs then the Winner goes on to play in the state championship series for 3 rounds. I think that is too many games for kids, but is highly competitve... Not on the 5A highschool level however. I just wanted to through some points out there... and do not mean any ill will to your comments
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Post by morris on May 15, 2009 7:07:17 GMT -6
This does not relate to the conversion portion but sometimes I think we give the kids too much to see. We all want our players to understand how things relate to what they are doing. So we draw up 11 on 11 and start moving backs, rec and the whole bit. That kid is trying to see 11 moving parts when that is not what we are asking them to do. I think this is why the smart kids get it. They can break it down to smaller parts on their own and make connections. The other kids can not or have a hard time. Those teams you play that are always good fundamental teams I bet most of them break it down into small parts. Remove all the other stuff and work on the most basic concept of it an dbuild from there. Like a scaffolding teaching method.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 15, 2009 15:13:43 GMT -6
Not necessarily. So...they don't know their measurements. Maybe they'd know them in meters. Doesn't matter. They see the distances. How far do you have to go for first down? Answer: from this stick to that stick. How long is the field? A: from this chalk line to that line. Similarly, the only reason to look at your speedometer while driving is when they're clocking you with radar or other means. Otherwise, you see how fast you're going, and can tell whether that's a safe speed for the conditions. On paper, true. The fact is this info is fourth grade stuff and these kids don't know it. That means that it's fair to infer that there's a lot of other stuff that they don't know or figure out. I see what you mean. You could even turn it around and say that if they haven't learned it anywhere else, they might as well learn it in football. Like when I was teaching a college course in Environmental Science and sat in on another prof's teaching another section of it, and noticed he was teaching things I didn't even consider part of the course subject matter, although somewhat related -- but then I realized those were basic things the students should know but don't seem to yet, and where else would they learn it?
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Post by coachorr on May 15, 2009 22:23:17 GMT -6
It sounds like they were confused by the question and not paying attention, when the first kid answered 3 maybe he thought you asked how many feet in a yard.... the second kid...who knows... at least I hope they were confused. [glow=red,2,300]coachorr wrote: If only high schools would realize that the youth coaches should be the ones coaching the kids they would see that they would win more games. [/glow] I don't think he was stating that at all. I think he was trying to say some coaches assume the kids know how to do or what things are no mater what the level and don't teach them the details enough. [glow=red,2,300]coachorr wrote: I just heard this comment this year in fact[/glow] It must have been from a loon, although you can find many great coaches in the youth ranks as well as some terrible ones [glow=red,2,300]coachorr wrote:High school programs need good youth programs for their success, however, there is a big difference in competition between trying to win 6 or 7 youth games or trying to win a 5A state title. [/glow] I do not think that all high school programs need that. Some youth leagues have 11 games plus 3round playoffs then the Winner goes on to play in the state championship series for 3 rounds. I think that is too many games for kids, but is highly competitve... Not on the 5A highschool level however. I just wanted to through some points out there... and do not mean any ill will to your comments Points well taken. I just have a hard time believing what I hear from people sometimes when they make comments like "the varsity coaches are a bunch of idiots, the program would be better off if some of the youth coaches were running the program." And, that my friends is a cancer and does nothing to benefit the kids who are playing for the coaches who are trying to win. Don't get me wrong, any youth coach is worth his weight, if he can teach the little things, but a lot changes when you go from a local youth league to a statewide 5A championship. In some ways, too much success at the youth league could have some negative implications (don't read too much into this statement) I think a good program overall can curb the "premadonna" ideal from kids as they enter into the program their ninth or tenth grade years. BTW, youth coaches are some of the best teachers of fundamentals there are. The good ones that is. What's more, the good ones are good and usually don't act like it. It is really a breath of fresh air.
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Post by brophy on May 16, 2009 5:03:49 GMT -6
tell me I'm not the only one that immediately thought
In HS, I probably would have been one of "those guys" that just wasn't able to connect everything together on what is important (most times it is thinking the game is just emotion - because that is all we are told, "just kick his ass " was the extent of most coaching) and it takes a great deal of patience and accountability (testing) to reinforce what is important. Always assume they don't know anything - even when they can repeat answers and nod approvingly when we go over material. (sigh)
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Post by tiger46 on May 16, 2009 14:10:27 GMT -6
Again....I was definitely not trying to point fingers at anyone. I hope that coach mce86 did not take it that way. I apologize now to coach mce86 if my post was taken that way. I am a youth coach. He's a HS coach. Football is something I coach on the side. Coaching football is part of his profession. I was not trying to tell him how to coach football players. I was commiserating with him about having to teach things to players that we assume that they know. And, that we can never assume that they already know anything. Football programs with feeder schools would possibly be exceptions to me. I think HS coaches that have feeder programs should be able to expect their players to be handed up to them with some basic knowledge of what they're doing.
I grew up in a small town. No tackle football until 7th grade. But, it was a feeder system. We learned things about tackle football in 3rd thru 6th grades before we ever played a down. It was part of our P.E. curriculum. And, of course, we all played sandlot football. I was not- and, am still not- an expert on football. Nor, will I ever be. But, when I first tried to be a youth coach, I assumed everybody knew some basics of football. Fast-forward to the kids(9>10) and (11>12) that I coach today. I coach kids in a poor neighborhood. They play recess and street football, too. Also, to the best of my knowledge, I have never had a single boy on one of my teams that has never played Madden NFL. All of them own it or have played it. Given my background and theirs; I was a bit shocked when I found out how many of them didn't know the difference between 'offense' and 'defense'. lol!
Btw, one of the least enjoyable experiences for me when I go to HS & Jr. High games is to have to listen to some @$$hole in the stands bad-mouthing the coaches on the field. Last season, I left a game early because of one of those jerks in the stands. This 'expert' was spewing utter garbage. But, he had everyone around him believing his crap although he was proven wrong time and again by the play on the field. What was worse was that he wasn't the only football expert sitting in the stands. He was just the loudest. Maybe that's the trouble with football. There's always more expert coaches sitting in the stands giving opinions than there are of us dumb coaches on the sidelines actually doing the job.
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byuwolverine
Junior Member
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Life is a game of inches --- Add them up in any aspect and there is your outcome.
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Post by byuwolverine on May 16, 2009 19:44:27 GMT -6
Wow with that situation, Im only twenty but by the time those kids graduate I would pull a Vermeil and retire due to burnout. But I'll fight back the tears.
Seriously though, kids can be taught anything, just takes creativity, time and that they know you care about them.
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Post by coachorr on May 17, 2009 8:42:58 GMT -6
tiger46, I got a lot out of your post, I think I am going to talk about measurements when I work with younger kids. Great comments.
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hammer58
Freshmen Member
If you think what you lifted yesterday was heavy; you haven't done anything today.
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Post by hammer58 on May 21, 2009 21:21:12 GMT -6
I think we as HS coaches do take a lot of things for granted. Just had a game today (in many parts of Canada we play JV in the spring for a variety of reasons). Now my OC assumed that all the players would know that we have only 2 TO's per half, so when we called the 3rd one (oops) he was all over our QB for taking us out FG range with 1 second left in the first half. Turns out no one ever told our Qb about this rule...just assumed he would know. As you know S###t rolls downhill so guess who else got a new butthole? OC might quit now..LOL. Seriously though when dealling with these young guys, assume they know nothing and you know everything and teach them all you know in a respectful manner. Then rep it and then teach it again. This has been the way from Pop Warner to Vince Lombardi to Urban Meyer.
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Post by coachcb on May 22, 2009 18:14:22 GMT -6
The unfortunate fact of the matter, my friend, is that your students are just the right age to start breeding... At the very least, I'm only about 10 years older than these kids, so I won't have to worry about them taking care of me when I become "infirm". However, those of you in the generation that came before me; WATCH OUT. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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GANNO
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Post by GANNO on May 25, 2009 8:18:16 GMT -6
Lets all come up with one questions to test football IQ before the summer starts!!! We can compile our list of questions and give them to our kids!!!
My question: Without penalties, what yard line does the ball get placed on if a kickoff is ruled a touchback?
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