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Post by easye17 on Apr 1, 2009 19:28:10 GMT -6
Had this happen to me this year and I'm interested in how others might have reacted.
Good player, or at least could have been a good player, pretty much loafs through the summer and through team camp and camp itself. Constantly the coaches are on him for practicing harder and giving full effort. Mind you, its are first year and we're trying our best to instill our expectations and practice habits.
First scrimmage comes around and the kid, who is a decent player and could be a very good player if he listened and worked at it, is with the 2nd team - he started every game the previous season. And the reason we put him with the 2nd team wasn't cause we were trying to punish him, but because he was out played throughout the summer by two other kids. So the next monday morning of week 2 of camp, the kid is even slower in practice and loafing from period to period, etc. So I call him over during a break and ask him whats up. His response - F this and F that, this is BS, I should be starting, etc., then he proceeds to spike his helmet and scream across the field as he throws off each piece of equipment. So, at that point, what do you do? ...
My response was to get practice started again and get the coaches getting the kids moving. I then followed the player into the locker room picking up his stuff and proceeded to clear out his locker as he changed right in front of it. I didn't say a word to the kid, then walked to the AD's office and told him about the situation. The interesting thing about it, the team knew why and didn't even mention it again. I didn't really even have to say much about it to them cause they understood what we were doing and what needed to be done.
So, what would you guys have done? Interested in hearing other points of view.
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slimbo7722
Sophomore Member
Some days yoour the dog...some days you are the hydrant.
Posts: 139
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Post by slimbo7722 on Apr 1, 2009 19:43:31 GMT -6
The exact same thing you did. He would be history.
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Post by phantom on Apr 1, 2009 19:45:50 GMT -6
Had this happen to me this year and I'm interested in how others might have reacted. Good player, or at least could have been a good player, pretty much loafs through the summer and through team camp and camp itself. Constantly the coaches are on him for practicing harder and giving full effort. Mind you, its are first year and we're trying our best to instill our expectations and practice habits. First scrimmage comes around and the kid, who is a decent player and could be a very good player if he listened and worked at it, is with the 2nd team - he started every game the previous season. And the reason we put him with the 2nd team wasn't cause we were trying to punish him, but because he was out played throughout the summer by two other kids. So the next monday morning of week 2 of camp, the kid is even slower in practice and loafing from period to period, etc. So I call him over during a break and ask him whats up. His response - F this and F that, this is BS, I should be starting, etc., then he proceeds to spike his helmet and scream across the field as he throws off each piece of equipment. So, at that point, what do you do? ... My response was to get practice started again and get the coaches getting the kids moving. I then followed the player into the locker room picking up his stuff and proceeded to clear out his locker as he changed right in front of it. I didn't say a word to the kid, then walked to the AD's office and told him about the situation. The interesting thing about it, the team knew why and didn't even mention it again. I didn't really even have to say much about it to them cause they understood what we were doing and what needed to be done. So, what would you guys have done? Interested in hearing other points of view. Bye. |
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Post by spreadattack on Apr 1, 2009 19:50:56 GMT -6
Well done. Drop a note to the AD that you're happy to talk to his parents if he hears anything from them -- i.e. that you're available if anything comes up. but well done
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Post by bigm0073 on Apr 1, 2009 20:08:17 GMT -6
What else could you do  .... I mean you did the ONLY thing you could do. The kid for whatever reason was not responding to your feedback and the situation got worse. I would have handled it the same way (And I have..). The team is better off without that type of nonsense. You did not need that T.O. crap. Move on and your team is better off for it. |
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Post by endersgame on Apr 1, 2009 20:18:08 GMT -6
He wanted to take his uniform off on the practice field in front of you and the team? Don't let him put it on again.
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Post by easye17 on Apr 1, 2009 20:46:59 GMT -6
Has anyone ever done something where they let the guy stick around after a suspension or something (not that I would have done that), but I'm wondering how it may have impacted the team later on. And I'm not questioning my decision at all, just looking to see what happens.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 2, 2009 7:56:32 GMT -6
If a coach is going to set participation standards for playing time rather than just talent standards you can expect this to happen at first. I had a kid quit for the same reasons, was promised that hed be DA MAN but fell behind in the summer because he didnt show up and others did. He had to play jv and show me something which his ego didnt like. We moved on.
when you change the culture you are going to have things get worse before they get better almost without fail. the other kids see that joe superstar is held to the same standards and it all comes clear to them. if you have to make exceptions then the kids see right through and lose respect for you.
regarding this kids display. sounds like a real chucklehead cancer type.
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 2, 2009 8:16:37 GMT -6
you should hold his hand, pick him some flowers, and make him some chicken soup.....maybe sing him an 80's ballad in the hopes he'll come back.......
heck no.....you handled it great.....bye bye.....
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Post by jpdaley25 on Apr 2, 2009 8:38:25 GMT -6
I have experienced something just like that at every new school I've gone to. A selfish, lazy kid with a bad attitude - you are better off without him. Has he tried to come back yet, or was he a senior? Any repurcussions with the parents?
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Post by CoachDaniel on Apr 2, 2009 8:41:32 GMT -6
And I think you mentioned Coach, he was not being punished - he had been outworked, and outperformed by other players! Don't see where there's anything else you could, or should do. Nice job Coach.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Apr 2, 2009 8:51:14 GMT -6
We had two kids do this last season. They didn't know how hard school ball was going to be. I coach seventh grade, and at that age our youth program still allows them to play. These two had played youth ball and got to do whatever they wanted because they were the "stars". One day in practice we started doing conditioning, and they just sat down. The HC's for the seventh and eight grade teams started asking them if something was wrong. They said "why do we have to do this s***, we never had to do it in rec ball". They were told to either get up and decided if they wanted to be apart of the team. They both walked off and went to the lockerroom. One of the coaches went to let them in so they could change and get their stuff.
I went to a youth practice a few weeks later, and saw both of the kids. Sure enough, they were both sitting around while the rest of the team ran. When I went by to watch a game, one was the qb and the other was the rb. They were the only two that got to touch the ball.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 2, 2009 9:33:01 GMT -6
You nailed it. It starts young.
We had a thread going about tarzan awhile ago and tarzan was one of those "naturals" kids, it came easy. Didnt want to do the required work because nobody else made him. Hes been outside of our circle of trust for months and just yesterday asked about earning points. I think hes getting the message that life goes on without him.
Someone else said it best "Its a long season reading everyone elses name in the paper"
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taufb
Freshmen Member
Posts: 19
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Post by taufb on Apr 2, 2009 12:45:21 GMT -6
Been there and done that. You did the right thing without a doubt. Keep up the good work. When rebuilding or taking over a program the first thing they must accept is that it is now going to be your way. Doing the right thing all the time is the key and it sounds like that is what you are teaching. Good luck
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Post by fbcoach74 on Apr 2, 2009 13:32:13 GMT -6
you did the right thing. we had a kid act in a similar manner his junior year. he was our best linebacker, but was lazy so he was a back up all year and only saw mop up time. After the season we addressed it and his senior year he finally got it.
I think as coaches you can give them opportunities and you can let them know why, but it is up to the player and if not they need to leave
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Post by unc31 on Apr 2, 2009 13:48:20 GMT -6
I took on the challenge of a team a few years ago that had won only 4 games in 5 years. We do a ton of year round work ie; speed development, weights, skill development, 7 on 7, camps, etc. Our policy is that if you don't participate in 80% of what we do, you cannot dress for a scrimmage or for a game until you make it up.
That first year we had a bonafide stud OL/DL that was 6-4 305 and ran a legit 4.9. He was definite prospect. This kid did not want to do anything as far as off season work. So when the season started, of course he did not get to suit up for any pre-season scrimmages because he had not made up all of his missed workouts. He drug his feet thinking we would let him play anyway. So, going into the third game of the season he finally finished his make up work and was allowed to dress out. He had been practicing all along, so we allowed him to play a little in the second half. As expected he was a beast.
The following Monday, I talked with him and told him that if he wanted to be a starter he would have to bust his tail. I told him to make sure that he was on time for everything and brought a good attitude every day.
Two days later he missed a practice even though he was at school that day. When I questioned him about it he said he had to do something for his mother. Needless to say that was his last day on the team.
The good news is that we went on to go 11-4 and play for the Eastern Finals without him. Classic case of a great player who was a cancer. I am sure he was a big part of the reason for the team not winning previously.
You have to be willing to sacrifice the GOOD players. If this same scenario had happened with a 2nd team WR, it would have meant nothing and sent no message to the rest of the team. Because he was the stud it had a great impact.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 2, 2009 16:47:30 GMT -6
This is great stuff and I agree with it 100%. Where things get REALLY TOUGH is when the AD or Administration is way to soft and touchy feely about things which basically means "no administrative support" for those hard lines.
When rules are in place to prevent year round workouts and "brow beating" kids to work out then you have a situation where you can end up unable to have "must make it up" policies.
Those are the situations to avoid in my opinion.
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 2, 2009 17:12:07 GMT -6
the closest I've ever been to this situation was when one of my kids did a terrible two tantrum at a Costco. We left and I put him to bed when we got home.
I think you handled it exactly as you should have.
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Post by coachjoe3 on Apr 3, 2009 9:16:13 GMT -6
Good job coach, you handled it great. And the fact that he didn't say anything as you were clearing out the locker is telling. No protests, no "Hey, what are you doing?" He knew what was up and didn't care.
Did you ever get any angry calls from his Mom or Dad?
A side note: I think it also tells a lot about the guys he left behind that they didn't fall into gossip or speculation or any "Didja see so-and-so?" about the incident. Good team-building, coach!
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wagl
Sophomore Member
Posts: 194
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Post by wagl on Apr 5, 2009 16:00:14 GMT -6
Good job. Ive seen it handled the right way- and the wrong way. It has been my experience that kids like this - if they are allowed to stick around - end up screwing the team when times get tough. In 2005 we were playing for South State- we had 2 kids that were D1 talents- they should have been dealt with harder as freshmen and sophs - they did just enough to stick around for 2 years...IN 05 - SR year - they got drunk the night before the game-we didnt know it til after the game- when about half the team wanted to kill them...after we had been upset.
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Post by airraider on Apr 5, 2009 16:14:54 GMT -6
So the next monday morning of week 2 of camp, So I call him over during a break and ask him whats up. His response - F this and F that, this is BS, I should be starting, My only issue with this was that it took a scrimmage and a whole week of camp for your to ask him what was up with him. If you would have asked him this as soon as the problem was seen.. then one of two things would have happened.. He would have improved.. or he would have had his blow up right then and there.. Either way 3 or so weeks would not have been wasted on his behavior. |
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Post by CoachFetty on Apr 5, 2009 16:43:52 GMT -6
You handled it correctly
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zbessac
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by zbessac on Apr 5, 2009 17:08:18 GMT -6
I agree with airraider, sometimes we forget that these young men are still kids and they don't act or react to things like adults. What this young man did was very wrong and in someway needs to be punished. But when you were a kid did you make some big mistakes that you later wish you would have handled differently. I had this same situation happen to me and was approached by the player to see if he could rejoin. He apologized and tried to explain why he did it. I said I didn't think he deserved to be back on, but that I would talk to my senior board and let them decide. He was allowed back on, but only after apologizing to the team, serving a three game suspension AND started last on the depth chart. He played sparingly in his first three games back, however, by our 9th game (last game of the year) he got to start. He had a good playoffs for us. I think the whole situation taught him a remarkable lesson and I haven't heard another word about him being a bad attitude kid in his other sports since.
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Post by champ93 on Apr 5, 2009 17:14:17 GMT -6
Well done-I have handled similar situations the same way.
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Post by easye17 on Apr 5, 2009 19:28:47 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong, I had talked to the kid numerous times before this incident and I have since talked to him. He is currently contemplating whether he wants to play football next year or to sit out. I do see him in school and I do talk to him on occasion. And yes, I know kids make mistakes and they are more than willing to come back. But in this situation, we're going to have to have a sit down with the AD and his parents before he ever steps foot again into our locker room. Kids do make mistakes, but they still do need to follow the rules. If he's willing to do that, then he can play. If not, then he won't.
Compounding this situation, and also the reason why I don't think he'll end up playing, is that he is an all-state wrestler and the wrestling coach essentially lets him do whatever he wants. There's zero accountability with him in wrestling. I'm the only coach he's ever had to hold him accountable for his behavior. Not a surprise he doesn't like me much.
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Post by bleefb on Apr 5, 2009 20:43:57 GMT -6
I had a similar situation a few years ago(I don't know if I feel better or worse to see how many people have had a similar situation) except the kid had a total of one tackle as a Junior. He started dogging when we moved an All-City linebacker into "his" spot. Before it was done, the Dad came to my house to fight me, my principal tried to get me to take him back AND apologize to the Dad, and it went all the way to the Superintendent before it was over. Ahh, good times.  |
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wwol
Freshmen Member
Posts: 90
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Post by wwol on Apr 5, 2009 21:06:15 GMT -6
well done coach
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Post by chuge325 on Apr 8, 2009 6:52:21 GMT -6
In your follow up post you mentioned that you continue to talk to him. There is always room for someone to work his way back in life - although with some things the road is too long for most to attempt it.
You handled it great. In fact, I don't think most anyone I know would have handled it without hollering at the kids. To just clean his locker out while he watched, and now have time to speak to him is wonderful. And you placed the team, and each player's accountability to the team, ahead of one good player. I'm sure that spoke very loudly to your team and is a part of your turn around success. We all know that football is the ultimate team-first game, and you set the tone for success by handling it so well. And that's for sharing it. I will use your example as I teach some of our young coaches how to handle things. Well done all the way around.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 8, 2009 7:42:17 GMT -6
Been through something like that- only I was that kid. I wasn't a star player. I got into it with the varsity HC during off-season football when I was a freshman. Never played football again and football was my favorite sport.
The bad part was that the varsity HC wasn't even the coach that caused my blow up. It was an AC that almost no one liked. I wasn't the only player that left football because of him. The worse part about it for me- even more so than losing 3yrs of HS football- is that I never apologized to that HC. It's been well over 20yrs since that happened and I'm sure he forgot about the incident no more than a few days later. But, if I ever saw that man again the first thing I would do is extend my hand and apologize for my stupid behavior.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Apr 8, 2009 7:50:59 GMT -6
I would have done exactly the same thing.
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.... I mean you did the ONLY thing you could do.
