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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2009 19:34:23 GMT -6
If that's true, that would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard...Bigger that Texas tech..who te hell ever heard of that school before Leach got there. Actually I did. I went to Texas Tech after graduating from Coach Jones at Kimball and went there because of Spike Dykes. So don't paint everyone with that brush.....Plenty of people knew of Texas Tech before and plenty of people in Texas will know about Texas Tech after he leaves. I love what the man has done for Texas Tech football, and now that we are on the map, I think we should do everything in our power to keep him, but don't discredit the program if they can't keep him. Sorry but it's a rant of a football alumni..... You can rant all you want, I'm not discrediting anything, I'm saying you never (or hardly) ever saw them on a national stage like they are now. I'm saying that it would be a stupid move to let him go for the reasons stated above. I love that program, and what leach has done. Trustme coach, Nothing's being painted with any brush
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2009 19:35:46 GMT -6
I've never heard of a coach being compensated by a school for leaving, that doesn't make sense and I'm sure they get money back if the coach opts out of a contract. Tuberville was given $5.2 Million when he "resigned" this last year. It's all negotiation. The parties to a contract can change them as they please as long as they have a meeting of the minds. "resigned" or was allowed to leave ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2009 19:37:45 GMT -6
So technically noone loses money, the school still receives compensation correct?
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Post by coryell2009 on Feb 13, 2009 19:41:20 GMT -6
Okay, sorry about that. I still feel that they should pay the man, but I remember Texas Tech being on the stage in basketball when I was recruited, but football was always on the cusp. I get sensitive to the dismissal around these parts for Spike Dykes. Anyway, they should pay Leach, because if he stays at least 2 more years we will be in the National Championship. All we need are some athletes similar to Mike Crabtree on defense and we are set. I try to tell some of the kids from Oak Cliff when I use to volunteer at Kiest Park to look into going to TT. I still find it funny that Crabtree didn't play WR until he got to Tech.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 7:07:29 GMT -6
That happens sometime, Randall Cunningham was a punter until he got into the NFL.
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 14, 2009 9:51:45 GMT -6
Tuberville was given $5.2 Million when he "resigned" this last year. It's all negotiation. The parties to a contract can change them as they please as long as they have a meeting of the minds. "resigned" or was allowed to leave ? Only he and a few select folks know the real answer. The company line was that he resigned and was paid his buyout "because it was the right thing to do". The real truth is it was a negotiated "divorce"...resigned or fired is semantics. He's not the coach, and he got paid for not coaching. Call it what you want.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 14, 2009 11:16:29 GMT -6
That happens sometime, Randall Cunningham was a punter until he got into the NFL. If you remember, he was a QB in college (who also happened to punt). He holds UNLV records for: pass attempts in a career pass completions in a year completion percentage in a game, season, and career lowest interception percentage for a career passing yards for a career 200 yard passing games in a career touchdown passes for a career total offensive yards for a career (he was a 4-year starter) he did punt, of course, and holds these records at UNLV: punting average per game, for a season, for a career (he had a 142 punts for his career) So, it wasn't like he was some slap that the NFL "turned" into a QB. He was a tremendous athlete that played QB. He was a very good punter, too. However, he simply faded away from punting once he entered the NFL. He did punt 20 times in the NFL for an average of 44.7 yards.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 18:16:41 GMT -6
Ok, I wasn't aware I know he punted in college, but the stories I was always told was that he was converted from a punter.. Some say in the NFL. I remember that 90 something yard shot he quick kicked in the vet years ago
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Post by poorbob on Feb 16, 2009 2:54:56 GMT -6
I could possibly get in trouble for posting this, but I don't think anyone will mind. It is a great summary of the situation by a guy that wasn't a Leach supporter to begin with. Looks like to me this is the classic "Jocks (Tech Admin) picking on the nerd (Leach)" scenario.
For context, Hance is the chancellor and Meyers is the AD. From the Tech board: "Now obviously, my info and accounts of the situation aren't first hand, but I've talked to several people with much better connection in regards to this than I have.
I will say this as well, it's moved me from being firmly in the camp of the anti leach to taking a look at both sides and seeing that there's plenty of blame and error to go around.
From what I was told, and I'll keep the names out of this (but I feel it's improtant for you guys to know), some of the Leach/Myers problems started when Bob Knight was hired and the 2 of them were none to fond of each other... I don't have anything to substantiate that, but I've heard it several times now, and I believe who told me.... I don't know why they didn't jive, but I could see those 2 personalities clashing. Anyway, I was told that Mike felt like Myers always had Knight's back and never his.
From then things went on and there were a few minor disagreements until Knight retired, then Myers put his full support into the football program. So much so that some fundraising efforts for other programs have been ignored/dismissed because football is our only concern now (not verbatim, but what has been relayed to several other coaches / programs (past and present)....
Then Mike tried to get his contract renewed before the season and Gerald's response was less than flattering, but Hance stepped in and smoothed it over to everyone's understanding. Mike was fully "ok" with the delay until the OU game. After the loss, he started getting signals that he was no longer wanted around.
Note this, Mike has expressed to these guys that he really does like it in Lubbock and he really wants/wanted to stay. Once he started "getting the message that he wasn't welcome any more, he got his team of agents involved. From what I've been told, he felt like they were his only option to remain at Tech and he may regret the decision, but he felt like it was his only choice at the time...
They proceeded and at the end of the season, Mike was basically told that he might want to look elsewhere because the funds weren't available for him, key word being him... So he went to Washington, but some things went sideways with that whole deal (not all are suitable for this board), but he was basically told to seek employment elsewhere, and he did.....
Apparently, when Tech (administration) tried to contact him, he didn't want to talk without his agents and that was a bad move b/c, they don't work well with Tech.... Also, they and Mike were real sketchy with Tech and not forthcoming on all the details.
So, Myers decided to play hardball, and Leach in turn decided to play hardball...
In steps Hance. Being the politician that he is, Hance thought he could ride in and save the day. It didn't go as planned (needless to say) and Hance wasn't about to look like the bad guy (once again, politician takes over) and Hance went on the defensive to not look like the bad guy either...
I was also told that Hance and Myers already have a replacement in mind (not sure who).
From what I heard, the clauses were like this:
The media rights one basically was a shot at Mike b/c it basically insures that Mike will have to do a lot more of what he really hates to do, sit in front of a camera, go to speaking engagements etc... Now, that being said, Mike should reciprocate some funds to help pay for his employment, but we, Tech knew the score and we knew that he wasn't a schmoozing type of guy, so this could only be taken one way by Mike...
The rest of them (clauses) are what they are, insurance issues for Tech...
So, now we are where we are. Mike feels unwanted, and maybe rightly so by at least one individual. Tech feels slighted by past flirtations and the job he didn't do in the Cotton Bowl etc... Hance feels like Mike doesn't want to deal, Myers doesn't want Mike to deal and Mike just wants to be wanted and stay put (so the story goes).
I feel like Mike is a good coach and I like all his eccentricity, and now I understand why he's always been so willing to look at other avenues....because he's never felt comfortable with Myers.
I also feel like Gerald has done good things for Tech, but he thought his lasting legacy would be Bob Knight, but Bob really wanted to get Pat a job.... When the legacy didn't go as planned, Myers moved on to making football his legacy, but with the problems with Leach, it wasn't ever going to work, so Myers wanted Leach out of the way to get his guy in. So Myers is a one step forward two steps back type of guy...
Hance, thought he'd save the day and be the man, but didn't realize what he'd gotten into until it was far past driven..... It really should've been the university president anyway who has been non-existent for all of this.
I just think that Mike should move on for his own sake. If he sticks around, he'll look like he's got no alternative.... If he waits to get fired, he's the lame duck... If he signs, he's only going to have a horribly strained relationship with Myers until he dies or retires (I think the first option will come sooner than the later)..
I also think Mike isn't free of blame in this deal, but I do not think he deserves to get what he's getting here. He's having his career dismantled here and part of it's his fault b/c of his representation but the way this is going down, he's looking like a problem child, and that's not the case..."
I've also heard that Meyers did VERY sophomorish things on an airplane that Leach was on with him. He supposedly messed with his seat and made fun of him to his face. Sad to see such an ass make a mess of things.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 16, 2009 6:57:28 GMT -6
poor bob
If you are thinking of being a coach, you should consider dropping the second career as gossip columnist right now. Professionals don't publish opinions with the prefacing statement "I don't know, but I heard...." when the information they "heard" is standard booster/fan stuff found on any internet website.
Just some advice. Take it or leave it.
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Post by spreadattack on Feb 16, 2009 16:10:36 GMT -6
poorbob, dragging Bobby Knight into this and all this other hearsay is both nonsensical and not relevant. For more (though not incredibly more) coaching interest, here are the four contract clauses that are an issue: www.collegefootballtalk.com/2009/02/12/new-details-emerge-in-leach-negotiations/- If Leach is fired, the contract is only guaranteed to 12%. - His buyout would be increased from $500,000 to $1.5 million - Leach would have to get permission to speak with another school, or else risk owing Tech $1.5 million - All money from his personal speaking opportunities or future book deals would go to Texas Tech. --------- All four of those are things I would not agree to. Coaches like Mark Mangino and and Bill Snyder both have 100% of their contracts guaranteed (not to mention people like Charlie Weis). The Fourth too is completely crazy. Maybe a sharing deal, but all money? Now, maybe all this speculation about Myers not liking Leach is behind some of this, but there goes. The only thing I will venture is that the AD is still angry abut Leach interviewing at Washington without telling him -- which was probably not the way to handle it -- but I can't even be sure about that. It's all business.
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Post by morris on Feb 16, 2009 16:24:18 GMT -6
that last clause SUCKS. I have no clue why anyone would agree to that unless they had not interest of ever doing a book or speaking while coaching where they are out. That is just crazy to agree to that.
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Post by poorbob on Feb 17, 2009 0:53:47 GMT -6
Hey guys, Sorry for posting this if it's too much hearsay. My only comment in the whole post was the last part about Meyers. I just wanted to give a summary as to the situation.
So to clarify, the long quoted piece was not mine. It was another person who is well connected and I thought it was a good summary of the events leading up to this frustration.
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Post by poorbob on Feb 17, 2009 17:32:06 GMT -6
It's pretty much known now that Leach will be gone by Monday. Some people in Lubbock are actually excited about it. I hate whoever made that decision and it's pretty much ruined my plans of being a Student Assistant at Tech. Great.
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Post by tye2021 on Feb 18, 2009 9:58:52 GMT -6
It takes some major b--ls to ask a man to sign over the rights to his name!
They wouldn't have to fire me I would have resigned!
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 18, 2009 10:08:35 GMT -6
poorbob, dragging Bobby Knight into this and all this other hearsay is both nonsensical and not relevant. For more (though not incredibly more) coaching interest, here are the four contract clauses that are an issue: www.collegefootballtalk.com/2009/02/12/new-details-emerge-in-leach-negotiations/- If Leach is fired, the contract is only guaranteed to 12%. - His buyout would be increased from $500,000 to $1.5 million - Leach would have to get permission to speak with another school, or else risk owing Tech $1.5 million - All money from his personal speaking opportunities or future book deals would go to Texas Tech. --------- All four of those are things I would not agree to. Coaches like Mark Mangino and and Bill Snyder both have 100% of their contracts guaranteed (not to mention people like Charlie Weis). The Fourth too is completely crazy. Maybe a sharing deal, but all money? Now, maybe all this speculation about Myers not liking Leach is behind some of this, but there goes. The only thing I will venture is that the AD is still angry abut Leach interviewing at Washington without telling him -- which was probably not the way to handle it -- but I can't even be sure about that. It's all business. Man from the looks of those clauses, either TT is really inept at dealing with this type situation, doesn't have a clue what is going on in coaching/football today, or whoever wrote them wants Leach to say no.
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 18, 2009 10:13:58 GMT -6
It's pretty much known now that Leach will be gone by Monday. Some people in Lubbock are actually excited about it. I hate whoever made that decision and it's pretty much ruined my plans of being a Student Assistant at Tech. Great. Leach will be fine without Tx Tech, with his personality and quirks he'll have to find the right fit, but he can do that probably. TT will slide back to mediocrity most likely. Wonder if TT will try to salvage it by finding another Air Raid guy?
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Post by coachcb on Feb 18, 2009 10:19:12 GMT -6
If Texas Tech and Leach can't come to an agreement, the only party that's going to be hurt is Texas Tech.
If Leach is let go, he'll have another job within a matter of weeks and he'll be building another fantastic football program.
Texast Tech, on the other had, will probably fall back into obscurity within the Big 12.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 18, 2009 11:08:48 GMT -6
It's kind of interesting to read this thread and also the one a bit down the board about letting an ast. coach go because he is mad about getting a .8 of the stipend instead of the whole thing. I could be wrong but it seems that college coaches are allowed to be upset about money/contracts but HS coaches should suck it up and take less for the program. Any thoughts? Am I way off on that?
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Post by phantom on Feb 18, 2009 11:14:15 GMT -6
I can't even imagine what TT is thinking.
Is it possible that they're trying to dump Leach's salary? Can they be so out of touch that they think they can still win with anybody but an exceptional coach?
I know that there are a lot of Texas people on here so don't take this wrong:
They're Texas Frikkin Tech. They're in possibly the toughest league in the U.S. and they're in freaking Lubbock. They have to convince kids that its a better idea to spend five years in Lubbock than in Austin or Boulder.
And they think they can do it on a bargain-basement budget?
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Post by spreadattack on Feb 18, 2009 11:23:28 GMT -6
All emotion aside, it's a fairly fascinating thing from a negotiating standpoint. I always find these media leaks with negotiating interesting.
With NFL players, the pundits and owners always come down really hard on star players to "get into camp" and "honor their contract" and "help the team" when, in rational terms, it is all about shaming a guy into getting less than he would get otherwise. Those NFL free agents have a limited amount of leverage, and, especially before free agency, holding out was one of the few things.
This situation is different. I see what you're saying phantom, but some of those clauses don't add up to good dollar amounts, I can't imagine. The buyout and the 12% (and the book sales/speech one too) seem more about misguided principle. They are about stubborn.
Leach also played his hand at least fairly effectively by blowing open the school's fake deadline. Anytime you negotiate and set a "deadline" that comes and goes you lose credibility.
Still, for Leach, he has little leverage this year. His only move is to not coach this year. It also hurts him for getting a contract with another school. But, we'll see. (And too, likely he will lose more games next year than he did this year.) My guess is that he will coach this year under the old contract and we'll do some version of this all over again. Leach will likely end up taking a new job but it won't be with a premier power.
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 18, 2009 11:41:48 GMT -6
I can't even imagine what TT is thinking. Is it possible that they're trying to dump Leach's salary? Can they be so out of touch that they think they can still win with anybody but an exceptional coach? I know that there are a lot of Texas people on here so don't take this wrong: They're Texas Frikkin Tech. They're in possibly the toughest league in the U.S. and they're in freaking Lubbock. They have to convince kids that its a better idea to spend five years in Lubbock than in Austin or Boulder. And they think they can do it on a bargain-basement budget? Exactly! I don't know, but usually the "hearsay" like was posted above usually has some basis in fact. Egos are involved in this stuff too, and that sometimes makes people do things that they think are good but are not, or do things in spite of the harm it will do. You're not going to convince me that TT has gotten a taste of big time college football success, and the money that comes with it, and all the good PR they've gotten lately, and now suddenly decided they've had enough of that and want to go back to just being a school with a mediocre program. So either A: somebody there is pizzed at Leach, and thinks they can get someone just as good, or B: they'll figure out how to get the deal done.
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Post by mariner42 on Feb 18, 2009 15:41:09 GMT -6
All those clauses are fairly ridiculous, although I can see #3 being at least somewhat not-insane, but the fourth clause is just absurd. If my college HC signed that contract, he'd be probably making less than half of what he does now. Granted, he's an exception because he does a LOT of motivational speaking type work, but that's absolutely ludicrous. I hope Leach gets out ASAP, signs on elsewhere, and hangs 80 on TT the first time they play. www.collegefootballtalk.com/2009/02/17/leach-deadline-passes-new-twist-emerges/ has interesting speculation that Myers could be the one to go before Leach, but it's really anyone's guess at this point. The whole situation seems like a massive quagmire.
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Post by coach4life on Feb 18, 2009 17:14:47 GMT -6
We (or at least I) don't know all the details but it is pretty clear that Texas Tech and Boston College have drawn the line on doing what it takes to be perennial powers. What top-level coach would want to go to a school with the kinds of clauses TT is pushing (contrast the 12% payout for being fired with the $1.5 mill buyout clause, hardly balanced, to say nothing of the speaking/books clause) or being fired for talking to another team to see if you can advance your career as in the case of the former BC coach?
Loyalty to your family has to be first - buyouts are fine, heck the new school will probably pony up the money anyway, but if things are as they appear, I'd say Leach should do the best job he can next season if he gets the chance and pack his bags for the next gig. I'd imagine leaving Hawaii was tougher than leaving Lubbock.
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Post by raiderpirates on Feb 19, 2009 15:12:06 GMT -6
That happens sometime, Randall Cunningham was a punter until he got into the NFL. If you remember, he was a QB in college (who also happened to punt). He holds UNLV records for: pass attempts in a career pass completions in a year completion percentage in a game, season, and career lowest interception percentage for a career passing yards for a career 200 yard passing games in a career touchdown passes for a career total offensive yards for a career (he was a 4-year starter) he did punt, of course, and holds these records at UNLV: punting average per game, for a season, for a career (he had a 142 punts for his career). Didn't he punt one from end zone to end zone? On third and long from inside the one yard line he punted one the length of the field(on a looooooooong roll off a good bounce).
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Post by raiderpirates on Feb 19, 2009 15:19:49 GMT -6
If he renegs they can fire him and save money for what it would cost to fire him right now under prior agreement's terms?
Mike Leach isn't Dumb and Dumber'er.
Besides, he found the most perfect surface for in line skating in perhaps the entire Lone Star State, and it's right on campus!
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 19, 2009 16:35:33 GMT -6
If you remember, he was a QB in college (who also happened to punt). He holds UNLV records for: pass attempts in a career pass completions in a year completion percentage in a game, season, and career lowest interception percentage for a career passing yards for a career 200 yard passing games in a career touchdown passes for a career total offensive yards for a career (he was a 4-year starter) he did punt, of course, and holds these records at UNLV: punting average per game, for a season, for a career (he had a 142 punts for his career). Didn't he punt one from end zone to end zone? On third and long from inside the one yard line he punted one the length of the field(on a looooooooong roll off a good bounce). he had a 91 yarder in the nfl ... think it was in '89. believe he also had another punt that was 80 or so at some point in his nfl career.
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Post by poorbob on Feb 19, 2009 17:15:14 GMT -6
Leach has agreed, at the last moment, to a three year extension, so he is there for five years now. Awesome!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2009 19:27:37 GMT -6
Didn't he punt one from end zone to end zone? On third and long from inside the one yard line he punted one the length of the field(on a looooooooong roll off a good bounce). he had a 91 yarder in the nfl ... think it was in '89. believe he also had another punt that was 80 or so at some point in his nfl career. I remember the one (91 yards) it was a quick kick with the wind at the vet...forget who they were playing. That was the year they all went to black cleats.
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 20, 2009 9:02:48 GMT -6
Leach has agreed, at the last moment, to a three year extension, so he is there for five years now. Awesome! What are the details of the final agreement with respect to those 4 clauses TT proposed?
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