Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2009 22:30:06 GMT -6
Maybe it's just a basketball thing--I was watching Fairfax High vs. San Diego tonight on ESPN2. Fairfax is ranked 15 in the nation, was up 84-40 with two minutes left, and still had all five starters in.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 24, 2009 9:49:38 GMT -6
There's no reason to be running a full court press press and jacking up threes when you're up 59-0 at halftime on a team that had several players whod never played the game before. As for the coach who was getting excited about the "big win" hers's a sporting event I'm sure he'd enjoy. Monty Python man that is funny.
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Post by tiger46 on Jan 24, 2009 10:41:49 GMT -6
When I was on the JV basketball team we played a Boys Youth Academy. Basically, a school for at risk teen-aged boys. They had some good-sized players on their team. Most were bigger than we were. We were a small 3A school. We had about 10 players on our JV team. There was nothing our coach could do to stop us from killing those guys. He took out our starters. He rotated in every player we had. Played them out of position. i.e...I was a 5'7" point guard. He had me play as a power forward. He took out our 6-foot whatever center and had our 5'9" other guard as center. Guess what? we were still destroying them. When our real center was rotated back into the game, the coach gave him specific instructions that he was not allowed to jump. He could fight for rebounds and block shots still. He just wasn't allowed to jump up in the air to do it. Our coach ended up taking our starting center out of the game before half-time. On offense, we could only shoot from the perimeter. No more driving for lay-ups. If we missed twice, we were not allowed to get the rebound. We had to let them have it. All instructions given to us by our coach. It got so bad that on defense we were taking knees while they tried to put the ball in the basket. They would miss once or twice before scoring. Final score. We won 126-18, or something like that. They didn't even earn the 18pts. We had to do our best to get them to score that much. How did we beat a team by that large of a margin? Simple.....they couldn't play basketball. It wasn't our coach's fault. Maybe the coach in that article shouldn't have been pressing for four quarters, etc... But, it really wouldn't have mattered. If those girls couldn't play basketball; they just couldn't play.
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Post by airman on Jan 24, 2009 15:37:34 GMT -6
not shifting the thread at all. just stating there is a political culture in this country which seeks to punish the successful and reward the unsuccessful. so instead of taking responsibility for ones own thoughts and feeling they blame others for the loss. You're exemplifying the political culture that exists among some that seeks to punish others in an attempt to make themselves feel like a better person. Wow.... Well to me it is clear that some people get their self esteem from hurting others. =) I disagree with you on this one. I am not part of any political culture which seeks to hurt other people. I am however a big believe in the strongest shall survive. Heck we are all here because one sperm was stronger and out swam the others. It did not take a village of sperm to impregnate the egg. It took just one. The strongest one. In the animal kingdom the strong get the lions share of the milk. animals nurse their offspring from strongest to the weakest because the strong survive and are more likely to reproduce stronger offspring when their time comes. Humans have upset the order of nature buy trying make everyone equal. This is where a political culture tries to punish those who work hard, invest and save to get ahead in order to reward those who spend their money on booze, cigs and whatever else. the funny thing is both did have a chance. while the strong paid attention in school and learned, the others skipped class to go do whatever. those kids cheated the system and now they are at the bottom. If we are all equal then we should not play for state championships or keep score at games. we should not declare a winner or a loser this way. I would have no problem with this as well. you would not be judges by wins or losses but if you had a good time. would take a lot of stress of the coach to be honest.
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Post by rbush on Jan 24, 2009 16:28:32 GMT -6
I guess that's one way to look at the world. Nietzsche would agree, I'd imagine. I've always had a different view on life.
I don't want to be like animals. I want to be human. I've got a type A personality, I'll admit. I want to be the best. I'm going to bust my butt to do that. Then, if I get there, I'm going to look out for those who weren't good enough to get there. Do I have a right to everything I've 'earned'? Maybe, it depends on the role you give God in your life. I do know this; I don't need to showcase I'm the best. I'll get more satisfaction from using those natural gifts to help others.
Look at Grapevine Faith in Texas, the school that sent some of their fans and cheerleaders to support a detention center team Grapevine was playing! Grapevine gave it to this team pretty good, but they could have kept all their fans on their side and reveled in blasting their opponents. Instead they made an effort to improve the lives of their fellow men. What did they give up to do that? Wailing on a team they were clearly better than? I'd say that's an easy price to pay to improve the lives of others. Different views, I guess.
I am going to call foul on saying "both did have a chance." A chance, yeah, I'll give you that. But not the same chance. I come from a medium-low income family in on the prairie. I went to Disneyland as a kid, to DC as a middle-schooler, to Phoenix and Texas to see family growing up, to Salt Lake City to help a friend move, and to many other places. My mom and dad read to me each night. Heck, my dad taught me how to throw, how to catch, how to bat, how to take a compliment, how to give one, how to win, how to lose, and many other things I can't even start to name.
Contrast that with a kid born in inner city Denver. Was his dad even around? Was he a good role model? Did anyone read to him? How far has he traveled? How often has he missed out on experiences because he has to work to support his family?
There is not one single good reason I was born into a life of opportunities and the Denver kid wasn't. Yes, the choices of the parents are important. The kid can hardly be held accountable for their choices though. They had nothing to do with it.
I owe so much of where I am in life to the way my family raised and nurtured me. I call it a blessing, some would call it random chance, but whatever name you give it, I did not earn it and I did not deserve it. Same as the kid in Denver. He NEVER had the same chance I did, not even close.
I know that got long, but this is something very dear to my heart. I needed to speak out on it.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 24, 2009 16:42:14 GMT -6
I am all for not rubbing it in by scoring that much, but why was this team allowed to play this school with little or no experience? Is there any reason to win 100-0, no. Should one team be responsible for letting the other team score, no. Maybe the state should be blamed for some of this for allowing the two teams to play each other.
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Post by k on Jan 24, 2009 16:45:12 GMT -6
I disagree with you on this one. I am not part of any political culture which seeks to hurt other people. I am however a big believe in the strongest shall survive. Well ok you are anti-civilization. I get it. Might makes right and children deserved to be humiliated and smacked down as hard as possible in order to make you feel better. People are nothing but antelope on the plains to be eaten by predators. I get it. I have yet to see someone stick to their guns about that kind of ideology though. They profess it when they are the predator but when they or their family are they prey they immediately change their minds.
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coachbigelow
Junior Member
Coach at Southern Virginia University
Posts: 261
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Post by coachbigelow on Jan 24, 2009 19:46:40 GMT -6
Oh man now my thread is gonna get locked.
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ram7gm
Sophomore Member
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Post by ram7gm on Jan 24, 2009 20:22:33 GMT -6
There's no room for this in sports, particularly high school sport, no question about it. No reason to be pressing all game long and hoisting three's in the 4th quarter. However, I heard some radio talk show host screaming about how it's the coaches fault - which I agree with, btw - and "who hired this guy?!" Well, I think we all know that high school's aren't always blessed with the ideal candidate to coach there teams. Unfortunately, while I personally think it (coaching/teaching) is one of the most noble professions in the world, not a lot of people are probably applying for a $1500 part time coaching gig on a small christian high school girls bball team.
So I'm certainly not condoning what this coach did, but for all we know it might have been a 20 year old kid who had to take the job to pay his bills and might not know any better.
(Sorry for playing devil's advocate)
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Post by airman on Jan 25, 2009 13:45:10 GMT -6
I disagree with you on this one. I am not part of any political culture which seeks to hurt other people. I am however a big believe in the strongest shall survive. Well ok you are anti-civilization. I get it. Might makes right and children deserved to be humiliated and smacked down as hard as possible in order to make you feel better. People are nothing but antelope on the plains to be eaten by predators. I get it. I have yet to see someone stick to their guns about that kind of ideology though. They profess it when they are the predator but when they or their family are they prey they immediately change their minds. I am MIke leach like. I might hang 77 on you and if you do the same thing next year to me it is not big deal. It is just a game.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 25, 2009 13:59:56 GMT -6
I doubt a school that has 20 girl students and is for ADD and ADHD kids will ever be remotely close to being able to return the favor.
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Post by airman on Jan 25, 2009 13:59:56 GMT -6
I guess that's one way to look at the world. Nietzsche would agree, I'd imagine. I've always had a different view on life. I don't want to be like animals. I want to be human. I've got a type A personality, I'll admit. I want to be the best. I'm going to bust my butt to do that. Then, if I get there, I'm going to look out for those who weren't good enough to get there. Do I have a right to everything I've 'earned'? Maybe, it depends on the role you give God in your life. I do know this; I don't need to showcase I'm the best. I'll get more satisfaction from using those natural gifts to help others. Look at Grapevine Faith in Texas, the school that sent some of their fans and cheerleaders to support a detention center team Grapevine was playing! Grapevine gave it to this team pretty good, but they could have kept all their fans on their side and reveled in blasting their opponents. Instead they made an effort to improve the lives of their fellow men. What did they give up to do that? Wailing on a team they were clearly better than? I'd say that's an easy price to pay to improve the lives of others. Different views, I guess. I am going to call foul on saying "both did have a chance." A chance, yeah, I'll give you that. But not the same chance. I come from a medium-low income family in on the prairie. I went to Disneyland as a kid, to DC as a middle-schooler, to Phoenix and Texas to see family growing up, to Salt Lake City to help a friend move, and to many other places. My mom and dad read to me each night. Heck, my dad taught me how to throw, how to catch, how to bat, how to take a compliment, how to give one, how to win, how to lose, and many other things I can't even start to name. Contrast that with a kid born in inner city Denver. Was his dad even around? Was he a good role model? Did anyone read to him? How far has he traveled? How often has he missed out on experiences because he has to work to support his family? There is not one single good reason I was born into a life of opportunities and the Denver kid wasn't. Yes, the choices of the parents are important. The kid can hardly be held accountable for their choices though. They had nothing to do with it. I owe so much of where I am in life to the way my family raised and nurtured me. I call it a blessing, some would call it random chance, but whatever name you give it, I did not earn it and I did not deserve it. Same as the kid in Denver. He NEVER had the same chance I did, not even close. I know that got long, but this is something very dear to my heart. I needed to speak out on it. so what you are saying is we do not have free choice? anyone can be what ever they want to be if they make the right choices. your life is up to you. you choose your path regardless of where you come from. If this is not true then their is no reason Barack or his wife should ever be even close to the oval office.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 25, 2009 14:00:06 GMT -6
I doubt a school that has 20 girl students and is for ADD and ADHD kids will ever be remotely close to being able to return the favor.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 25, 2009 14:17:37 GMT -6
Well ok you are anti-civilization. I get it. Might makes right and children deserved to be humiliated and smacked down as hard as possible in order to make you feel better. People are nothing but antelope on the plains to be eaten by predators. I get it. I have yet to see someone stick to their guns about that kind of ideology though. They profess it when they are the predator but when they or their family are they prey they immediately change their minds. I am MIke leach like. I might hang 77 on you and if you do the same thing next year to me it is not big deal. It is just a game. I do not see how attaching a coach's name who is in a completely different situation than this incident was (Full Scholarship BCS football to high school girls basketball) enhances or supports your argument. I think people are missing the larger point...it isn't the "outcome" as much as the process here. Pressing deep into the game, when it was long determined that the opponent could not handle that particular phase of the game is worthless. How did either team benefit from the entirety of this situation? Can you explain to me what type of development the winning team experienced going from 60-0 to 100-0 that they didn't get from the opening tip to 60-0? Can you explain to me what type of development the losing team experienced in the same situations? (obviously none, if they ended the program).
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Post by airman on Jan 25, 2009 15:12:51 GMT -6
I use mike leach because he has taught me to never let up. never let your opponent get a chance breathe.
On Oct 9, 2004 the Red Raiders dominated the once very proud Nebraska Corn Huskers 70-10. It was the most lopsided victory for Nebraska ever. IT was a turning point in the tt program and a turning point in the Neb. I say Bill Callahan started to lose his program that night.
TT had the game well in hand but they kept attacking. Many in the media thought this was not right. how dare TT show up Nebraska live on TV was what many in the media said.
We tell our kids to never quit but then we give them mixed messages like slow down at this time and point in a game.
if you score 100 Pt's on me it is a refection that I failed as a coach to coach up my players. It is not your fault and nor would I blame you for doing what you do. those who blame the other coach are really coaching just against the other team and not against themselves. when you coach against yourself you do not care what the other team says or does.
I learned from Mike Leach you never stop attacking. TO stop attacking teaches your players is it OK to quit. He kept the press on the U of Nebraska the whole game.
how many of you say play to the whistle and at the same time tolerate kids standing around or walking on the field because the play is going the other way. check your game films and you will see what I mean.
you know who i am most proud of in the 100-0 game is the kids who had 0. today it is very fashionable to quit when you do not get your way. video game not going your way just hit reset, didn't do well on the test go to the teacher and play upon their good nature as you know they will let you retake it or just blame the teacher.
many of todays youth only want to be in situations where they know they can win. Those girls are winners because they did not quit. the score might not reflect it but they are winners.
life does not always go your way. IT is said you how you handle a lose reveals more about your character then how you handle a win.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2009 15:50:11 GMT -6
Once again, you compare apples and oranges by using a scenario in which the school's resources are equal, the athletes are all on scholarship, and the coaching staffs are relatively equal as points in your argument.
I honestly don't know anyone who tells their kids to slow down and not play hard. Your kids still go hard and play balls out, but you put in second stringers and younger kids which also aides your program in the development of those younger players. No one is telling the winning team in this 100-0 game they should have let up. They could still play hard without utilizing the fullcourt press.
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Post by rbush on Jan 25, 2009 15:56:51 GMT -6
Aye, we all make our own choices. Those choices depend on our circumstance. Imagine you have two freshman athletes, both of equal talent. One's family is well off. He has time to hit weights in the off-season and can attend multiple camps in the summer. The other has to work year round and attends a single team camp ONLY if he can get a scholarship. Four years later kid A is a high school stud and kid B is an average Joe. Yes, he chose not to do what kid A did. Being able to eat and pay bills was more important.
I don't know much about Obama's childhood. I do know both his parents and his step-father were college educated, so the $ was there.
I was born and raised on Husker football. I live in Nebraska. Callahan lost his program long before the Tech debacle. I also don't think this was a turning point for Tech. Beside the point though.
I'm not trying to change your mind, but I do enjoy discussing the topic. Leach has done a nice job with TT. Let me ask though, would the world be a better place with more men like Leach or more men like Tony Dungy? The ultra-competitive, hyper-successfully coach who refused to run up the score even to influence a playoff tiebreaker. Again, it's a matter of personal opinion.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 25, 2009 16:53:59 GMT -6
anyone can be what ever they want to be if they make the right choices. This is one of the most often used, and yet completely false statements in our lexicon. The correct statement is that ANYONE CAN PURSUE WHATEVER THEY WANT TO BE IF THEY MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES. This pursuit does not ensure, nor does it even make probable, the desired outcome. Really? A guy, who just happened to have a black dad but grew up with his white mother and then later his white grandparents,who was called Barry as a child, attended a prestigious school in Hawaii should never ever be close to the oval office? Come on....
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Post by coryell2009 on Jan 25, 2009 18:15:22 GMT -6
WOW...this is what I get for a search for Chuck Norris on a football board......Chuck Norris cannot stop the double wing....but he can destroy the Air Raid!
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 25, 2009 18:14:30 GMT -6
The winning coach was quoted in another paper as saying : “In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Website, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed,” Micah Grimes wrote in an e-mail that was sent to The Dallas Morning News. “We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity.” Soooo...100-0 was NOT running up the score? Keeping a full court press deep into the 4th quarter is not running up the score? I use mike leach because he has taught me to never let up. never let your opponent get a chance breathe. We tell our kids to never quit but then we give them mixed messages like slow down at this time and point in a game. Absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. CRAP--pure Crap. This was supposed to be a sporting event. There was absolutely nothing sporting about this event. There was nothing sporting in this instance. This was the football equivalent of being able to teach your kicker to kick off high enough and deep enough so that your KO team catches the ball in the endzone for a TD (without a fair catch rule). So, If my team beat your team by kicking off into the endzone for TD's...you might change your tune a bit. These kids couldn't break the press. That's it. Couldn't break the press at 0-0, couldn't break the press at the 59-0 halftime break, couldn't break the press 88-0 3rd quarter horn, and couldn't break the press at 100-0 final buzzer. Where is the sport in keeping it on? How the heck is that "coaching up" YOUR kids? How about working some of your set plays? How about working on various cuts and ball movements/reversals? Obviously work on your halfcourt defense. Maybe challenge the D to see if they could get a half court 5 second call without trapping. All of these would be excellent examples of "true coaching". Just keeping the press on once it is well established that the other club can't break it improves nothing. As stated above, apples and oranges. Mike Leach never stops attacking OTHER FULLY SCHOLARSHIPED BCS FOOTBALL PROGRAMS. In this example here, the coach passed up on a GREAT opportunity for some true teachable/coachable moments, and I am not talking about mercy. I am talking about actual basketball issues.
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Post by coryell2009 on Jan 25, 2009 18:17:07 GMT -6
I disagree with you on this one. I am not part of any political culture which seeks to hurt other people. I am however a big believe in the strongest shall survive. Well ok you are anti-civilization. I get it. Might makes right and children deserved to be humiliated and smacked down as hard as possible in order to make you feel better. People are nothing but antelope on the plains to be eaten by predators. I get it. I have yet to see someone stick to their guns about that kind of ideology though. They profess it when they are the predator but when they or their family are they prey they immediately change their minds. As a philosophy major...I find this statement to be quite true. Everyone is for the strongest survive..but when they are the weak one or the victim it switches. I think that we need an off topic forum to handle this one guys....
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 25, 2009 19:05:09 GMT -6
When I was on the JV basketball team we played a Boys Youth Academy. Basically, a school for at risk teen-aged boys. They had some good-sized players on their team. Most were bigger than we were. We were a small 3A school. We had about 10 players on our JV team. There was nothing our coach could do to stop us from killing those guys. He took out our starters. He rotated in every player we had. Played them out of position. i.e...I was a 5'7" point guard. He had me play as a power forward. He took out our 6-foot whatever center and had our 5'9" other guard as center. Guess what? we were still destroying them. When our real center was rotated back into the game, the coach gave him specific instructions that he was not allowed to jump. He could fight for rebounds and block shots still. He just wasn't allowed to jump up in the air to do it. Our coach ended up taking our starting center out of the game before half-time. On offense, we could only shoot from the perimeter. No more driving for lay-ups. If we missed twice, we were not allowed to get the rebound. We had to let them have it. All instructions given to us by our coach. It got so bad that on defense we were taking knees while they tried to put the ball in the basket. They would miss once or twice before scoring. Final score. We won 126-18, or something like that. They didn't even earn the 18pts. We had to do our best to get them to score that much. Good example. Bad example. Best example.
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Post by phantom on Jan 25, 2009 20:43:42 GMT -6
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 26, 2009 6:50:14 GMT -6
That coach has some issues, but does anyone know what the size of the other school is? I mean why is a school with 20 students playing a team that is that much better than them?
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Post by jpdaley25 on Jan 26, 2009 7:39:33 GMT -6
These were Christian Schools? Does anyone know if the victorious coach was wearing one of those "What would Jesus do" bracelets?
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Post by olinecoach61 on Jan 26, 2009 7:51:51 GMT -6
Hopefully they also fire the coach who lost 100 -0. You need to be able to score a basket!
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Post by jpdaley25 on Jan 26, 2009 10:04:06 GMT -6
just saw where the winning coach got fired - don't know about the losing coach.
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Post by mitch on Jan 26, 2009 10:28:18 GMT -6
You're exemplifying the political culture that exists among some that seeks to punish others in an attempt to make themselves feel like a better person. Wow.... Well to me it is clear that some people get their self esteem from hurting others. =) I am however a big believe in the strongest shall survive. Heck we are all here because one sperm was stronger and out swam the others. It did not take a village of sperm to impregnate the egg. It took just one. The strongest one. This reminds me of the bad instructor in 'Karate Kid'. Treat your fellow man the way you would want to be treated. Especially those who aren't as fortunate as you. Our Grandmas were right when they taught us the Golden Rule.
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Post by airman on Jan 26, 2009 13:20:52 GMT -6
In reading how people feel here about this I clearly reassert my point in the future you will have a handicap like in golf and your team will have to get up points in order to make things more fair if you are the superior team.
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ccox16
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by ccox16 on Jan 26, 2009 13:27:47 GMT -6
Now the coach has been fired because he refused to apologize. The school said that it wasnt chirst like what he did. Now arent they being a little bit hypocriticle?
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