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Post by bccarnes on Jan 23, 2009 12:47:08 GMT -6
I know this is a very broad question, but with all of the great posts on this website I am very excited to read the responses.
I am curious if you had to choose one (or more) part of your program that you do a good job developing and improving every year, what would it be? What strengths do you develop year in and year out?
I know senior leadership is vital to the success of a program, but how do you get them to buy into the vision that the coaches have and develop them into leaders? A solid coaching staff is very important, but how do you develop your coaches and help them become better coaches? The off-season is very important and is where championships are built…what specific things do you do to get your guys motivated to come in and work hard on a rainy day in the middle of spring when the season seems a long ways off?
I am a new coach and looking for tangible things I can do and things I can learn from coaches who have had success. There is all kinds of information about X’s and O’s, drills, schemes, and strategies, but what do you to build up the intangibles?
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Post by struceri on Jan 23, 2009 12:53:25 GMT -6
2 things. for us it was making weightlifting mandatory and going to a two platoon system. Before that move our school played for 2 state championships over a 20 year period after that move we have played in the last 2 and are good enought next year to play in it again. We started this four years ago.
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Post by nohuddlecoach on Jan 23, 2009 13:20:56 GMT -6
Glad to hear somene touch on the senior leadership topic. This is something i struggle with more and more each year. Getting these kids to think about team before them. Most of them are innocent enough kids, their just brought up in a me first world. i develop a leadership curriculum. It's a culmination of all the things ive read and heard. We start it in the summer and meet once a week, takes about ten weeks to get through. Alot of it is quotes, questions, movie clips etc... that just make them think about leadership and what it means. At the end we get very specific about what they are going to do as seniors and as individuals to lead our team. We put those ideas on paper and all sign them. Then i hold them to it. We are adding to it this year, after reading, "Season of Life," a program called Others Centered. Basically we are going to make serving others a priority, reward them for their efforts. Reading to our elementary kids, volunteering their time, etc... I just think that unselfishness is such a big part of successful teams today, we are going to see if we can create that environment.
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Post by cqmiller on Jan 23, 2009 13:46:19 GMT -6
DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE...
CLASSROOM 1st... Can't tell you how many athletes we had at our school NOT in sports because of grades our 1st year here. Discipline there makes them smarter.
LIFTING... Discipline there makes them stronger
Build Numbers and strength to compete first, then start to add the little-things that move you up from competing to winning.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 23, 2009 13:46:48 GMT -6
Recording attendance and participation in everything we do, posting results of lifting, attendance, academic awards, making it public knowledge, posters, announcements, football football football. Just talk about it, get the kids talkign about it, get the faculty and admin talking about it, get the ms kids talking about it, make it the center of the universe - applying and keeping track of a point system, awards, what did the kids earn? we post monthly point leaders, I buy a monthly award and recognize my top 11 every 3 months.
I think that is a huge strength of mine.
Getting the coaches coached up, this is a huge focus for us this off season. every coach on staff has to speak our language and be trusted to coach his spot like an expert, we must get this done this year. we have video, manuals, one on one meetings to clinic and we will clinic as a staff.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 23, 2009 14:20:47 GMT -6
Great posts boys For getting kids to buy in, I think it's more about trimming the fat- getting rid of the fakers when you first take over. The one's that stay are YOUR guys. A guy I worked for did this, and we struggled at first, but he developed a solid group of young men into a playoff team. Had he stayed at that school longer he definitely would have led them to the championship game. I think people go wrong by making it too easy to be a member of the team. When you're struggling this is the hardest thing- everybody cries about getting more numbers/kids out to play. What good does it do if you have 100 kids on the sideline and only 15 of them aren't turds? Shoot, I'll take the best 30 I can find and make do. Kids need to adjust their schedules, make sacrifices and be accountable- not the other way around...Don't lower your program's standards if you want people to respect it. It's like if the biggest knucklehead in the school can be a total turd throughout the day and still be allowed to play on Friday night, how will teachers/administration/parents/or your players with decent values respect you? They can't. When the smoke clears, you'll be left with a core group of kids that want to play football for this program. This is where you can truly start building a team. I believe off season meetings/weight training should be mandatory for players who are out of season. If they can't commit 3 days a week to better themselves, how can they commit themselves 100% during the season? I don't buy it. Kids that don't play other sports and don't show up to wt. training shouldn't even be allowed on the team- point blank. Everyone needs to pull their weight. On that note- monthly/bi-monthly program meetings directly after school are a must. Too many staffs don't see their kids on a regular basis. You need to keep your thumb on them in the offseason. If they want to play they will be there- if they're a bunch of jokers then they won't come and you'll know not to trust them. As far as making your coaches better- It is the HC's job to mentor the weaker/rookie coaches- any good leader would want their subordinates to move on successfully. They need to be coached to coach- setup for success, and know that you have their back. They typically need direction and organization- you will have to provide it for most of your coaches (in my experience). All this crap happening in the NCAA with HCs demoting/firing coaches for interviewing for better jobs is horsecrap- why wouldn't you want your guys to move on to bigger and better things? To me guys that don't do these things are selfish and are poor leaders. So what if it leaves you shorthanded- is that any reason to talk bad about a guy? Can you blame him for wanting to be a coordinator somewhere else? Look at the NFL- their is that strong "Bill Walsh" family tree/network of coaches who were successful- that is a direct reflection of how great a coach Walsh was! I don't get it... Sorry for the rant  |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 24, 2009 3:28:33 GMT -6
Relationships and Discipline are things that are musts - I am pushing my coaches to get to know the kids, all of the kids. I am pushing my coaches to step up in terms of discipline. Find the kids who are in the program, hunt them down, get them in the wt room, keep them out of trouble, get them to study and do right. Spend time with the kids, joke with them, have fun with them but be their guiding light. Checking in on kids who are not showing up is a must too, call home, send home letters with expecations and current status. Let the kid and his parents know you are aware hes awol from training etc.
not only being with the kids, spending time with them, but spending money on them too. We buy pizzas, sandwiches, movies, hold cookouts, tee shirts, sweat shirts, spirit packs, highlights and any thing else we can afford to recognzie those who are committed to our program. We dont have a big boosters program in place so some of us coaches just reach into our pockets and do what we can. we bought all of our post season awards (trophies etc) and set up our own banquet.
"They dont care how much you know until they know how much you care" is a rock solid statement that should be part of a philosophy for building a program.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jan 24, 2009 8:10:31 GMT -6
Be true to yourself and your team. Treat your players fairly and make them think this is a special thing.
As I mentioned before I want kids commited and we want kids who love football..... We have a trust and a cirle and this is special for us....
I do not chase kids around the school to lift or workout. There are plenty of good kids who are good students who will win for you that you focus on them. Remember you only need 11 players to play the game (Not 50 -60). I personally think we get caught up in the numbers game...
Yes trim the fat. Challenge them mentally and physically in the off-seaoson. Make the workouts tough and make them mandatory... Do not accpet the fact they play other sports... Have them come in 2 maybe 3 days a week and just get their core lifts and go. Be crative. If that means you have to get off your ass early and open the weight room, well then do it (Do not be "do as I say and not as I do...)
As Ohio said do not get caught up in size/speed and weight. Evaluate your players on other attributes:
1. Work ethic
2. Classroom
3. Character
4. Trust
5. Accountablity
Focus on these attributes and make the physical attributes the last part of the evaluation.... Those players with GREAT physical attributes but are lazY, bad students and do not work hard are basically coach killers. Weed those turds out. If you give preferential treatment to those kids your good kids will resent you and eventually you will have a mess on your hands...
Some some advice from someone who has been through this process a few times.
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Post by indian1 on Jan 24, 2009 10:29:12 GMT -6
dcohio, great post.
One thing that I think is critical to building a program is giving your schemes, weightroom philosophy, practice philosophy TIME TO WORK.
A lot of times its easy to try something and scrap it quickly if it doesn't seem to be paying off right away. You see guys scrap an offense or a defense after a season or two, or jump on the next trend in weight training. Really what they are doing is forcing their program to "restart" each time they change something.
For me, a big part of program building is having the patience to allow the program to build. Giving schemes and systems time gives your players a chance to develop and become confident.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 24, 2009 10:41:21 GMT -6
I almost forgot- keep the freaking cancerous parents away from your players. Guys who are wanna be coaches who all think they have the answers you do not can get to your kids and spread their disease. Get the GOOD parents involved and keep them involved. Let the others huddle off the corner like losers.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 24, 2009 11:44:55 GMT -6
One thing that I think is critical to building a program is giving your schemes, weightroom philosophy, practice philosophy TIME TO WORK. A lot of times its easy to try something and scrap it quickly if it doesn't seem to be paying off right away. You see guys scrap an offense or a defense after a season or two, or jump on the next trend in weight training. Really what they are doing is forcing their program to "restart" each time they change something. For me, a big part of program building is having the patience to allow the program to build. Giving schemes and systems time gives your players a chance to develop and become confident. Great post, I agree One Hundred percent. It is easy to listen to the people that think they have all the answerers for you, Especially under pressure {Parents} |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 24, 2009 14:40:06 GMT -6
Make highlights!!!!
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Post by mitch on Jan 24, 2009 19:27:50 GMT -6
. Potential means - ain't done chit yet...but might! That's so true! My coach used to tell us- "Potential is french for 'ain't worth a chit' " Go with what you got. Football isn't for everybody, and that's fine. Don't try to make it all inclusive, like a Cozumel vacation or something. |
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ram7gm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 133
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Post by ram7gm on Jan 24, 2009 20:16:29 GMT -6
I agree with everything being said on here as far as "trimming the fat", "playing with what you've got", and so on. And I obviously agree that you "only need 11" however, it's awfully hard to run a practice with only 11. It's nice to have a scout team, backups, depth, etc. So where do you draw the line between trimming the fat and sacrificing what you stand for?
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Post by schultbear74 on Jan 24, 2009 20:26:55 GMT -6
classroom
weightroom
hallway
community
Insist on character and discipline. You can't win with turds.
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Post by dhooper on Jan 24, 2009 20:42:18 GMT -6
Grades, discipline, weights. You got to love them up and make it tough to be a part of the program. Never lower the bar. Great post.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jan 24, 2009 22:08:07 GMT -6
Let me clear up my thing about numbers....
Yes you do need more then 11... I was just trying to make a point. I think in todays days and age we get caught up in numbers...
How often do you hear people say - We have 60 guys on the varsity... We have over 80 players on the varsity.... Blah, blah, blah.....
I myself got caught up in it when I was at a school with 2600 kids and we tried to play kids one way.... I just focus on the good kids who work hard and are good students and good people. Surround yourself with these type of kids, you will always be a winner.
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begreat
Junior Member
I don't have a bunch of hobbies, football is my hobby. They just pay me to do it. ---Mike Tomiln
Posts: 293
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Post by begreat on Jan 24, 2009 22:22:30 GMT -6
Once your kids know you care for the rest gets easier.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 25, 2009 10:27:40 GMT -6
I agree with everything being said on here as far as "trimming the fat", "playing with what you've got", and so on. And I obviously agree that you "only need 11" however, it's awfully hard to run a practice with only 11. It's nice to have a scout team, backups, depth, etc. So where do you draw the line between trimming the fat and sacrificing what you stand for? Yes, but when the kids on the scout team are so bad, They make the starters feel like they can beat anyone. Till game time comes around, and reality sets in  We all know we need more then 11, but we need 15-25 dedicated players, and you can get by. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 25, 2009 10:59:46 GMT -6
So completely true. To grow a forest to its full potential you must cut down and burn the dead wood.
Id rather have 15 dedicated kids who I can have my staff focus on instead of 45 with 30 of them being turds who wont even jog onto the practice field.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 25, 2009 11:41:56 GMT -6
I agree with everything being said on here as far as "trimming the fat", "playing with what you've got", and so on. And I obviously agree that you "only need 11" however, it's awfully hard to run a practice with only 11. It's nice to have a scout team, backups, depth, etc. So where do you draw the line between trimming the fat and sacrificing what you stand for? Yes, but when the kids on the scout team are so bad, They make the starters feel like they can beat anyone. Till game time comes around, and reality sets in We all know we need more then 11, but we need 15-25 dedicated players, and you can get by. I know that having a decent scout team is important, but dealing with a crappy one may be what you have to do to build your program; bowing down to turds just to keep your scout team numbers high will only come back to bite you in the as$. You can find a way to win with chicken $hit scout team- Go half line- work half your starting oline versus the other half playing defense for live drills... Line the $hitty DL up offsides- give them an advantage Tell the scout team where the play's going...put the best scout team player at the point of attack DL/LB/CB whatever... You can find a way to make it work- be resourceful, creative. The lean times won't last long. Stand your ground, get rid of the cancerous kids, and FIND A WAY TO WIN! |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 25, 2009 12:17:36 GMT -6
I just called all of my 8th graders this weekend. I forget who I was talking to but he said he was doing the same thing so it got me going.
One parent thought it was "the baseball coach" calling lol. I invited them to workout and got some pretty good responses.
To me, its all about relationships and the discipline is just part of the relationship.
I can not wait for August, but I do love June and July too because I am jumping in with a mini camp, speed camp and open gym time and 7 on 7.
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Post by morris on Jan 25, 2009 12:34:35 GMT -6
How do you trim the fat if you do not cut?
Do you feel this POV changes if you are coaching MS/Frosh?
Best year we had we could go 1s vs 1s everyday. It was a big help but that was a rare year. We are looking to isolate more of what we are doing. We think by doing this we can see and correct more than going live.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 25, 2009 13:03:05 GMT -6
I don't think you have to "cut" kids in the traditional manner. Typically holding them to making X amount of workouts, gradesheets, mandatory meetings etc... will help to put some pressure on the ones that are fakers - if they don't do these things they can be "assured" that they will be at the bottom of the depth chart or
If the season has started and you don't want to "cut" him- put him in a situation to either straighten out or cut himself...
-reduce the kids team reps (to zero)
-kids that don't attend the prescribed % of off-season workouts have to do 100% of the conditioning (just take your normal conditioning and double it...let the one's who work hard in the offseason do the normal amount [50%]...)
-be creative and put the kid in a position to $hit or get off the pot
You can definitely trim the fat but you HAVE to have 100% backing from administration.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jan 25, 2009 14:17:55 GMT -6
First week of two a days what I have done is put all of the {censored} bags with the OL.... Of courese but wait, I AM THE OL COACH!!
Kids that are 5'8" 170lbs will come with me and do stance, start, sleds, punch drills, board drills, pancake drills, king of the board drills...
I tell them that with their speed they could make a good zone blocking OL.
Those kids just see their name on the OL and the depth chart the week before practice starts and they are like "F-That"... Some still try...
If they make it with me the first week and I think they are legit I will let them move and try something else. usually by then I will put their AZZ through the ringer, mentally, physically and emotionally!
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Post by bigm0073 on Jan 25, 2009 14:20:15 GMT -6
Ohh by the way who says you can not cut..... Most schools make it mandatory you must give the kids 3 days to workout. After that you are welcome to cut. I have in the past (Only turds who show up with bad grades, thugs, lazy..... good kids who work hard I WILL NEVER CUT!!!).
B-ball, baseball, lax they all cut.. We can as well.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 25, 2009 15:05:17 GMT -6
I never cut anyone. I can always use a kid to fetch bags, ice buckets, fill water bottles, run for the med kit or walkie talkie, pick up the locker room and bus or practice field, put bags away, cones and still have the energy to push the sled and run hills and do up downs at the end of practice (wink)
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Post by bigm0073 on Jan 25, 2009 18:14:05 GMT -6
Yep that is the idea....
Most of the kids after a few days of that BS usually roll on their own...
We all know the "good kids" who are busting their ass 3-4 days a week for 9 months... Yeah maybe they do not have a TON of talent and Yeah maybe they are only 5'8" and 160lbs but man they love the game and they give it their all. Those kids will always have a place in our program.
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Post by bcurrier on Jan 26, 2009 0:53:45 GMT -6
Wow, guys! Way to take a thread that started out real promising and take it south quickly with the braggadocio about running off kids. The question was about BUILDING a program, not TEARING one down!
Now, I absolutely understand and agree with the concept of “addition by subtraction.” But let’s get real – football is a numbers game and a game of attrition. Going into a game, we all know that the team with the fewest number of 2-way players has an improved chance of winning. The more bodies you have to choose from, the deeper the talent pool is likely to be – that is the core principle behind putting schools in different classifications based on the size of the student population. Because football is a game of controlled violence and collisions, injuries are inevitable and often dramatically shape a team’s season. The deeper a team’s depth chart, the better the team can weather those injuries.
IMO, the challenge is to find ways to increase the number of young men participating, challenging them to become both better persons and better athletes, and finding ways to support them thru the obstacles to those objectives presented by the general culture and their individual life circumstances. That is what I understood the original post to be asking about. So…what insights do you have to share along those lines?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 26, 2009 4:00:45 GMT -6
"IMO, the challenge is to find ways to increase the number of young men participating, challenging them to become both better persons and better athletes, and finding ways to support them thru the obstacles to those objectives presented by the general culture and their individual life circumstances. That is what I understood the original post to be asking about. So…what insights do you have to share along those lines?"
I think the majority of the thread has focused on those things.
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