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Post by phantom on Jan 6, 2009 10:12:14 GMT -6
Toward the end of the playoff game the other night Indy had a 4th down on their one with a 3 point lead, less than 2 minutes to play, and SD out of time outs. I turned to my brother and said that the Colts should take a safety and he agreed.
Our rationale: take the safety and kick from your 20 and SD likely gets the ball around their own 30 with no time-outs.
If you go ahead and punt it, as Indy did, you risk getting what Indy got. Even with a good punt SD got the ball in Indy territory and only needed a couple of first downs to kick the tying FG.
Thoughts?
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 6, 2009 10:15:23 GMT -6
Hmm, interesting point. One point of contention is that the average starting field position after a free-kick after a safety is the 40, not the 30. (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/09/whats-safety-really-worth.html)
I'm not sure how much that changes the analysis; I agree that the punt was not a great option; and it gave the Chargers the ball very, very deep.
I will say that the punter who kicked that punt that just miraculously put the colts on their own 2 put in a magnificent performance.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 6, 2009 10:25:17 GMT -6
I wish thinking the samething but wouldn't have in that situation in a pro game. I just don't like the idea that if you take a safety in that situation a field goal will now beat you instead of tie you. The average field position a team gets after a safety is usally very good. I agree if it was high school then I would be more for taking the safety.
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
Posts: 176
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Post by hoosier on Jan 6, 2009 10:50:39 GMT -6
i totally agree with Spos21ram. in that instance you give SD a chance to win the game on a field goal instead of tie it. no time outs or not, thats still plenty of time on the clock to get into field goal range, and Nate Keading is good enough to hit one form 57 yards (his career long which he made earlier this year)
the 3rd and 2 play was executed horribly by the Colts on the last possesion. i think it was a great call though. 6 man protection against 5 rushers, and Addai had the cusion for the short pass. i think he may have ran the wrong route though (went to same formaton they scored the TD on the week before with the screen), but because Clark was late off the line, he didnt take his defender upfield far enough, he and the LB were in the throwing lane any way.
then go back to the 4th and 1 when IND decided to go for it instead of a field goal. put those 3 points on the board and IND probally wins.
the last 2 years i think the worst 2 games the Colts have played have been the playoff games, and i dont think it has much to do with SD, but rather IND just beating themselves. i do give credit to Scifres and Sproles for a great game though
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Post by coachweigelt on Jan 6, 2009 10:55:22 GMT -6
I'm totally with Phantom! I would have taken the safty!
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Post by dhooper on Jan 6, 2009 12:59:31 GMT -6
I did that in a game. We took the safety and won the game.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 6, 2009 13:42:09 GMT -6
I did that in a game. We took the safety and won the game. The situation is totally different in a pro game. We've also done it at the HS level and college and were successfull, but if the Colts take a safety in that situation they lose that game in regulation. With the game being in in San Diego with great weather then the range for a FG would have been around 50-57 yards like a previous poster mentioned. If the Colts were up 6 points then yes I'm all for it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 6, 2009 20:04:38 GMT -6
I did that in a game. We took the safety and won the game. The situation is totally different in a pro game. We've also done it at the HS level and college and were successfull, but if the Colts take a safety in that situation they lose that game in regulation. With the game being in in San Diego with great weather then the range for a FG would have been around 50-57 yards like a previous poster mentioned. If the Colts were up 6 points then yes I'm all for it. I agree 100%. In the NFL, with pro kickers, pro wr's, pro quarterbacks, I just don't see it being a smart thing. What you gain in field position is minimal to moderate, what you LOSE in score differential (from a FG tying to FG winning) is great.
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Post by Yash on Jan 6, 2009 21:00:21 GMT -6
I would have to punt the ball there for the NFL. In high school, maybe take a safety and make them beat you the long way down the field, but in the NFL kickers are too good to let them try and beat you.
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hawke
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
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Post by hawke on Jan 6, 2009 22:55:29 GMT -6
Way back in '73 with the Dolphins ahead of Pittsburgh by 7 with not too much time left (can't remember how much) Shula had Griese take the safety because he did not want to risk the punt block or the return.
Hawke
PS Morris tells the story better than I do.
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Post by Yash on Jan 7, 2009 7:21:30 GMT -6
The colts defense though, isn't as stout as many others. I don't think that they could have afforded to give the other team 1:30 left on the clock and only 25 yards to a game winning field goal. I think you have to punt it there and hope you can get a stop on defense or win the coin toss in overtime. Obviously it didn't work for them but I think what they did gave them the best chance for success.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 7, 2009 9:57:59 GMT -6
Another point no one mentioned yet is the ability of pro punters. If you have a HS punter that averages 20-30 yards a punt then you'd probably take a safety, when you have a pro punter that can boom a 40-50 yard punt then why not just punt? The field position difference would be very minnimal from punting from your 2 or punting to kick off after a safety. I would take a pro punter punting from his two and making a touchdown beat me then a FG beating me.
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Post by throwonfirstdown on Jan 7, 2009 11:10:57 GMT -6
Disagree, too much time left and Indy's D isn't good enough. If you're John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, or Jeff Fisher, it might be a better play, because your D is so stout.
Dungy did what he had to do.
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Post by cc on Jan 7, 2009 11:16:12 GMT -6
I still don't get why they tried to pass it like they did. 3rd and 2. Run the ball. They were doing OK running it. And at least if they don't get it they are not so backed up. Also, the punter boomed the ball and out kicked his coverage. They got a pretty good return on it. I would have thought they would run it or do a play action with a quick dumpoff....
But then again if they complete it for the 1st its game over and they look like genuises. OR if they run it,get stuffed, they get called idiots as everyone knew that HAD to run it...
lol...that's coaching. Calculated risks of play calling...
It does continue the discussion of OT rules. Peyton did not even get a chance to tie it up...Thoughts on that? Do you like sudden death better than shoot out???
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
Posts: 176
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Post by hoosier on Jan 7, 2009 19:07:55 GMT -6
I still don't get why they tried to pass it like they did. 3rd and 2. Run the ball. They were doing OK running it. And at least if they don't get it they are not so backed up. Also, the punter boomed the ball and out kicked his coverage. They got a pretty good return on it. I would have thought they would run it or do a play action with a quick dumpoff.... quote] the Colts were 31st in the league in rushing this year. they had the #3 RG playing in that game due to injuries, Addai has been hesitant running the ball (missed the gap on the 2nd down play) and i dont think the odds were favorable agaisnt Jamal Williams who is no doubt one of the top NTs in the league moreover, with the game on the line, why wouldnt you want it in Peyton's hands? i for one would rather fail with Peyton than lose without giving him a chance. the Colts were by far the best 3rd down team this year, and theres no reason they shouldnt have gotten 2 yards i for one love the collegiate rules of OT, always have. i would like to see each team touch the ball once then go sudden death in the NFL
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Post by phantom on Jan 7, 2009 19:25:31 GMT -6
Another point no one mentioned yet is the ability of pro punters. If you have a HS punter that averages 20-30 yards a punt then you'd probably take a safety, when you have a pro punter that can boom a 40-50 yard punt then why not just punt? The field position difference would be very minnimal from punting from your 2 or punting to kick off after a safety. I would take a pro punter punting from his two and making a touchdown beat me then a FG beating me. Most teams have their punter kick after a safety. What would be a 45 yd. punt from scrimmage is a 55 yarder as a free kick. Also there is much a much better chance to cover a free kick than a punt from the 1 yard line when you have to worry about protection.
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