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Post by airitout616 on Dec 22, 2008 19:18:43 GMT -6
Coaches how do you guys create toughness and want to ?
Are kids born with it or do you feel you can MAKE kids tough and want to compete ?
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Post by brophy on Dec 22, 2008 19:57:27 GMT -6
it is a secret............
called
WEIGHT ROOM
or you can buy my DVD series and make yourself feel better. If you think you can create THIS any other way than the weight room, you are only fooling yourself
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Post by 19delta on Dec 22, 2008 20:25:14 GMT -6
Kids can't be tough unless they are physically and mentally confident.
weight room = physical confidence
sound coaching, practice preparation, and game planning = mental confidence
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Post by khalfie on Dec 22, 2008 21:02:36 GMT -6
Define tough? Want to? I think I know what you are getting at, but don't want to assume to much... But besides the "weight room" philosophy... Psychological studies have shown... via maslows hierarchy of needs, and Pavlov's classical conditioning... that depravity creates toughness... However, such depravity is usually without alternative... deprave your players... and I think the only result is that you'll have less players... but they'd be tough... depending on how tough is defined...
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Post by airitout616 on Dec 23, 2008 0:29:30 GMT -6
Where I am getting at is can you MAKE kids WANT to win and come to the weight room ? You can push the weight room and tell kids your not playing all you want but what if the kids just dont come ?
What I am asking is are there some good ideas to increase numbers in the weight room with out just kicking every kid off the team.
Do you just reward the kids for coming with t-shirts and things like that ? Is a reward system the best way ?
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Dec 23, 2008 8:15:06 GMT -6
We had (and to some degree still have) problems with weight room participation. We did a couple of things that seemed to have worked:
1) We completely sold out on the BFS program. I know that we can debate the effectiveness of BFS with the many other programs out there but BFS advertises like no other. It fit our needs because we needed to "advertise" the benefits and successes associated with weight training. Our program has struggled for many years (one winning season in 22 years as a co-op) so the success articles in the BFS magazine fit our situation every issue. We posted these articles everywhere--the locker room, on each player's locker, on the coaches's office door, in each coach's classroom, in the weight room, and in our bi-monthly newsletter.
2) Educate the parents. We included numerous points in the bi-monthly newsletter that discussed safe nutrition, safety, disspelling myths, health benefits, and successes. This letter (sent electronically) goes to the parents and players in our youth program (hit them early), junior high, and varsity.
3) Have an attendance chart that is visible the entire time. We had an attendance book that had been used long before I arrived. It was a three-ringed binder that one would flip the page with every day. Therefore, if a player was absent, few would know because it was only visible for one day. We took a piece of tagboard (with a pre-made grid) and listed every training day for the summer along with camps along the top. We then listed every player along the left side. If a player became a chronic skipper, it was seen by everyone everyday. It got to a point where the players were policing each other over this.
4) Establish a competition for top attendance. Keeping along the same lines as #3, we divided the players into teams. We have three coaches on our varsity staff. We held a draft prior to the summer lift. Each coach is responsible for the attendance of players in his group. This way the responsibility of keeping track and contacting players does not fall solely on the head coach (even though I still contacted players from other teams who skipped but at least the assistant did the same thing). Players were given 10 points for each camp or weight lifting session. They had one point deducted for each minute they were late. We also incorporated a team bowling night during the summer and several softball games. The winners of each of these received additional points for their team. The winning team was excluded from picking up equipment after practice, cleaning the locker room, and cleaning up after team meals.
5) Establish individual competitions. This was two-fold for us. First, we wanted better attendance. We did alot of the same things most other people do. If a player received 85% of their points, they got first choice of equipment and a T-shirt. Players who received 70% of their points got second choice of equipment. After that, I hope they get the oldest piece of crap in the equipment room. Second, we set up daily competitions. We called them "Gatorade Challenge" because the winners each received a Gatorade during the next workout. Some competitions included highest combined squat (or bench or dead lift or clean) by body weight, best time in one of the agility drills by position group, or something similar by grade level. We had the players submit their times/weights in a coffee can. Try to change it up so you have different winners (even though you may have the someone most of the time)--make it so players feel they have the opportunity to win once in a while. If a player wins a Gatorade but is not there to claim it the next session, they don't get it. Post the winners on the bulletin board.
6) Recognize the efforts of everyone (good or bad). We will post the attendance points in the August newsletter. These are listed from perfect scores (possible of 320 points last summer) all the way down to the very last player (had one score 8 points last summer--and he was a senior!). The players did not know this was going to happen last summer (our first summer of doing this) but they definitely know that it will happen this August. It is amazing the leverage one can have on playing time when it is in black and white for everyone to see.
7) Make the weight room accessible at many times during the day. We have three supervised weightroom sessions: 7:00 am to 9:00 am, 9:00 am to 11:00 am, and 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm. We put a different coach in charge of each session just in case a session goes longer than planned. Players can choose any of the three sessions on a day to day basis. Their schedules are usually sporadic (work, family, etc.) so we accomodate this.
Our participation increased drastically due to accountability and competition (which made it fun). We had many players in later sessions that wanted to know who the top weight/time was for the Gatorade challenge and strive to beat it. If they did beat the top player for the day, they were on their cell phone immediately after the session to rub it in. Players were giving younger members of their group (from the draft) rides so they could get the points for their team. Great things develop from accountability and competition. Hope this helps.
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 23, 2008 8:28:13 GMT -6
Coach Johnson: Excellent .. just excellent
Read The New Toughness Training for Sports by James Loehr.... He says another aspect to toughness besides mental and physical that we need to work on is emotional toughness. You see kids act out all the time. there is a reason for this. we generally say the kid is an idiot or whatever.. if you read the book, it answers alot of questions Why kids tank..Why they get angry.. why they choke etc. it really opened my eyes
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Post by khalfie on Dec 23, 2008 8:35:05 GMT -6
We had (and to some degree still have) problems with weight room participation. We did a couple of things that seemed to have worked: Outstanding!!!
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Post by brophy on Dec 23, 2008 8:48:46 GMT -6
if you read and re-read and apply what coachjohnsonm listed.....you CANNOT go wrong. Your kids will be 'tougher' and more determined than any other gimmick or pep talk you could find.
just lagniappe, and not meant to supercede anything coachjohnsonm has mentioned, but doing things that he mentioned (and seen the results), I'd add a small footnote;
1) With the 'education of the parents' thing......distribute quarterly newsletters. Email is best. But the newsletter (search the general section, there are examples of what these look like) covers EVERYTHING in 2-3 pages. Articles about kids, nutrition articles, current events, and ATTENDANCE LISTS (and an MIA section.......you'd be surprised at how many kids are telling their parents they are 'working out', when they really aren't)
2) COMPETE. We used "strongman competitions" ever month in the off-season and the weight room participation went through the roof.
3) ACTIVELY TEACH the kids that are there. Don't whine about the kids who aren't there, you never know how effectively or efficiently your workouts can be with a 'personal trainer'. Let the kids enjoy the visceral high/buzz we all get from a good workout.
There has to be incentive to lift. Making it fun doesn't mean 'easy'. Establish a tempo, a passion, and fun in the weight room -> Crank the music, slam the iron around, and all the kids to get after it (show them how then get out of their way).
The T-shirts and 'extras' mean nothing (this isn't a bake sale) if the environment isn't established during lifting. This isn't about following a checklist - it is about the program selling out to getting better
If ANYONE can think of a way to build 'toughness' (mental and physical) outside of the weight room, I'd love to hear it. I just don't believe it is possible.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 23, 2008 8:49:40 GMT -6
I personally do not believe in rewarding kids for coming to the weight room. If you have T-shirts for 1000 lb club or something, that is different, that is achievement but to just give them T-shirts for being there a certain number of days...no. Plus, that could get costly as it will become expected AND what is to prevent the kid from getting his T-shirt, then not coming back? This is where I am at, as well. t-shirts, food, helmet stickers...sure all of those things will get kids into the weightroom BUT, will those kids who are motivated to show up for those things work hard once they get in there? The answer, typically, is NO. I would rather have a small group of 10-15 kids who are internally motivated to work hard than a weight room filled with 40 kids, 25 of whom really don't want to be there and have to be watched like hawks to make sure they are doing all of the exercises, reps, and sets completely and correctly and aren't trying to sneak out the door whenever they think you aren't looking. Simply put, the greatest "motivator" in the weightroom is success. Once kids start getting swoll and strong, the word will spread and your attendance will grow.
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Post by aztec on Dec 23, 2008 9:05:49 GMT -6
Urban Meyer's book talks about his different ways of creating toughness outside the weight room, but the weight room is still the way. Meyer used Mat drills, where he takes his players to the wrestling room and pits different players against each other in front of the team. He would also do a brutal conditioning period on Fridays called Full Metal Jacket Fridays. Then he would also do midnight workouts, and have brutal weight room workouts like the St. Valentines Day Massacre.
I am not sure why people have attendance problems you lift or find another sport. We require 90% attendance from Dec to June. If you leave early you don't get credit. We work out 4 days a week and the day off is for all the stupid appointments and other crap.
As for something in the weight room you can create some specialized workouts that are brutal and guys learn to love.
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Post by khalfie on Dec 23, 2008 9:09:26 GMT -6
This is where I am at, as well. t-shirts, food, helmet stickers...sure all of those things will get kids into the weightroom BUT, will those kids who are motivated to show up for those things work hard once they get in there? The answer, typically, is NO. I would rather have a small group of 10-15 kids who are internally motivated to work hard than a weight room filled with 40 kids, 25 of whom really don't want to be there and have to be watched like hawks to make sure they are doing all of the exercises, reps, and sets completely and correctly and aren't trying to sneak out the door whenever they think you aren't looking. Simply put, the greatest "motivator" in the weightroom is success. Once kids start getting swoll and strong, the word will spread and your attendance will grow. Great question... Quantity vs Quality... I initially would have whole heartedly said quantity... first get them in... then get them focused... However, as "Good 2 Great" so eloquently points out... the first task to taking a program from good to great, is not worry about the direction, but to get the "right people on the bus", and the "wrong people off the bus!" Quantity, still has you working with the wrong kids... kids coming to be social, going through the motions, waiting to later sabotage the program. Or, are they the right kids, that missing link, that if you get them to turn the corner... they're already somewhat willing... I mean they are in the weight room... you get them on the bus... does the bus crash... or do you now have the team you need? Quantity vs Quality... I really don't know.
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 23, 2008 9:54:06 GMT -6
Coach.. Good to Great is a good business book and has some ideas that are transferable. In business, we get our choice of employees.. unfortunately?? in HS we get the best kids the parents have to send.. IMO if a kid shows up.. It is our mission..you work with them the best you can. Make the non believers skeptical, make the skeptcal.. believers. make the believers into leaders You do whatever it takes to get the kids in there. we recruit the hallways The kids will end up cutting themselves and you get rid of the cancers
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Post by brophy on Dec 23, 2008 10:40:49 GMT -6
Where I am getting at is can you MAKE kids WANT to win and come to the weight room ? You can push the weight room and tell kids your not playing all you want but what if the kids just dont come ? WHY should the kids come? Because you said so? What are other motivators? one other point I forgot, was as an element of "leadership training" Seniors and Juniors are responsible for the Sophs & Freshmen. Leadership training is broken into groups. Seniors reverse draft the entire pool of football players. Freshmen, then sophs, then Juniors...... So you should have 10 - 14 "groups" with 2-4 kids in each class. That "leader" is responsible for the attendance of his group. That leader has to call the freshmen/sophs to make sure they have rides and are making the sessions. Highest attendance group gets a pizza party during the preseason camp. Lowest attendance group serves that group. Think about it, if you do "spirit cards" or some other fundraisers, you probably are already doing this......just not for the weight room.
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pbids
Freshmen Member
Posts: 67
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Post by pbids on Dec 23, 2008 11:03:46 GMT -6
The internet is making kids soft period. There are a lot less schoolyard football games being played and more sitting on the computer playing games and chatting. I think a good way to get kids to be tough is to make them "feel" tough. Organize your preseason camp as a boot camp of some sort. Preferably away from home for a week at a camp somewhere. And let them know that brave soldiers go through similar training. Make them T-Shirts or something that says, "I survived a week of hell" to give to them after camp. The will wear it as a badge of toughness in the weight room or wherever. They will feel tougher and perform at a higher level IMO.
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Post by aztec on Dec 24, 2008 0:17:24 GMT -6
The internet is making kids soft period. There are a lot less schoolyard football games being played and more sitting on the computer playing games and chatting. stated on a message board only accessable through the internet. I love the irony, but I agree with you pbids...not to many pick up games at the park or at the friend's house anymore are there. It really effect of kids not playing sandlot anymore is a total lack of leadership. Kids have been in nothing but adult run leagues their whole lives and then when asked to lead have no idea. Sandlot let kids pick teams, deal with conflict, step up and take charge of a situation without adults around. Sorry a bit off topic here, but it tied in with the Internet
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