|
|
Post by hlb2 on Dec 21, 2008 6:57:45 GMT -6
Ok, some of you are missing the point. I am a new HC, I was an assistant around this guy for 6 years, so I've seen some of his work. When I got hired, an aging staff, retired and it was my/admin. job to get coaches. I broght the coaches to the admin., but nobody got hired, so I ended up with the OL coach as well as the DL coach I had been with the past 6 years, as well as a new guy. Basically put, it was all I had to work with.
I agree the oline is the most important group on OFFENSE, but the most important unit on the field is DEFENSE which I COACH! I coach the LB's who btw, got a "D", so there's your self evaluation. I also coached the RB's and the QB's. I looked at technique only, the RB's got a good grade because we only fumbled 4 times all season from that position. They ran decent routes, had good footwork and blocked very well. The LB's were terrible, and there was a lot of kids falling under the "not willing to do what was asked" and it showed. We never started the same group of LB's all season. Only 1, our WLB started all 10 games because he was willing, listend to the coaches and took coaching well.
I graded the position coaches for 1 reason, I have a problem and I need to fix it! I did not say they had a problem or threw them under the bus, we were 0-10 for a reason, and it's my job to find out why and fix it! That is what I'm doing. It is my fault for allowing the guy to coach what he was coaching, it is my fault for not paying more attention to how bad they really were and I intend to fix it. I'm just looking for advice on how to handle this situation. Like somebody mentioned, he will remain at the school and will remain in contact with the kids, however he is not all that well liked. At the college level he'd be done, he would have been gone 5 years ago. This is a little different especially since we are in an area where coaches don't seem to "grow on trees", and neither do volunteers, beleive me I've tried to get people to help.
I'm going to evaluate him and then try and help him get better. He has some faults I think can be corrected but our old HC was the guy who hated conflict. Me, I'm wide-eyed right now to everything, but conflict doesn't bother me. I think now that I'm over the shell-shock of everything being new, it's time to get down to business and get the job done. I'm going to give him another chance and see how he's doing at the end of the season.
To those that asked about the weight program, it is average at best, but getting better. When I took over the average attendance in the weight room was less than 25% of the team and there was no winter program. Under me we had 25% attendance at the winter program and we were up to 50% attendance in the weight room during the summer session. I demand it, and it will/must get better.
Thank you for the input, and the ideas, and sorry for any confusion in my original post.
|
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 21, 2008 8:34:40 GMT -6
It is my fault for allowing the guy to coach what he was coaching, it is my fault for not paying more attention to how bad they really were and I intend to fix it. You have identified the problem. Fixing it is simple, but not easy. I think the first thing you have to do is have a meeting with all of your assistants and have a frank and open discussion about individual technique, scheme, practice organization and player management. Be prepared to listen to what your assistants have to say. Don't be dictatorial...give them an opportunity to speak their minds. Be prepared to defend your positions...draw up the things you want to do and take turns "passing the chalk". The next phase would be to take the results of that meeting (s) and distill it down into a "program" manual...a list of acceptable techniques, schemes, practice schedules, and player management tactics that everyone understands and agrees to. The final phase after that is simply to hold your assistants accountable to what you, as a staff, have agreed to. I would give these guys the opportunity to get on board...like you said, you need coaches. However, if these guys continue to do things their own way, you will need to take more direct action. Again, it won't be "easy"...you might get a lot of resistance from these guys, especially if you beat some of them out for the head coaching position. But, unless you get control of your staff, you will continue to have problems. |
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 21, 2008 8:40:17 GMT -6
Is it possible that the oline coach is only partially at fault? What kind of schemes and rules do your kids use? Do the xs and os fit their abilities and skills? how much time do you give them in individual and group periods?
|
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on Dec 21, 2008 9:09:30 GMT -6
It's easy to second guess another so perhaps some of us are a bit off base on the entire scope and sequence of things but in general evaluation of what's being done right and wrong should take place, well, everyday and certainly an in depth look at each weeks game tape with a frank and honest discussion about what needs to be addressed every Saturday or Sunday (whenever you meet as a staff).
Many of us cannot understand how this "confrontation" did not occur much, much sooner then December or January. If you allow something to go unsaid for weeks and then months you are basically telling the kids and coaches "it's OK" so keep doing what you are doing and they will rightly be a bit defensive about the timing and they may believe it's your attempt to blame a poor season on them even when in reality you are just now addressing problems that contributed to that poor season.
Also coach why did the administration not bring any of your guys on board? That is a huge red flag about where they are at in supporting and building a program.
|
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Dec 21, 2008 13:01:27 GMT -6
I'm going to give him another chance and see how he's doing at the end of the season. Tell me I'm not reading this right? You mean... another chance to coach another position... right? |
|
|
|
Post by hlb2 on Dec 21, 2008 16:43:44 GMT -6
No. I'm going to give him another shot at it. I was not clear in what I wanted, he was the OC also and I was wanting to do like dcohio talked about his HC doing and that is have somebody oversee the offense so I don't have to deal with it. That was a poor stance to take and I did little to help the guy in the end. That being said, I still do not like the way he teaches the offensive line and we are going to address that after the new year. He will either do it my way, or go packing and that is final (no one is necessary). I was new, all the HC stuff was new and I made a ton of mistakes and I get a second chance and so will he. I only think that is fair, however, I will keep a very close eye on what he is doing, and he will know this too. We are going to start filiming all the offensive line drills as well as team so that we can evaluate our linemen constantly. I feel that will help us in the long run as well.
As for scheme, I also think that was a big problem. I went from man/gap blocking to zone blocking going from high school to college and I loved zone blocking. That's all I knew about it other than it was a great way to handle slanting and stunting. However, I've talked to some other offensive line coaches who are in a similar situation as I am and they all say it is not the best way to go about things if you are undersized and undermanned. I now agree 100%! I come from a flexbone triple option background and we are thinking of moving in that direction from the 5 wide shotgun offense we were in. The only thing I'm concerned with is the fact that last year's teaching was wasted now that we will switch offenses once again. I guess that will have to do for now, as I don't see us being able to live in this offense with the kids we have. Again, it comes back to me because I allowed him to run it, as it looked good on paper. As some have said though, it isn't X's and O's it's Jimmies and Joe's and our Jimmies and Joe's were not built for our X's and O's in my opinion. Thanks for the inuput on everything!
|
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 21, 2008 16:57:11 GMT -6
Why do you have to "change" offenses? Find an F, stay in gun and run some option, screens and shorter route combinations to make defenses have to defend the whole field. Moreover, I think you have to incorporate a good trapping game to help with DT's who shoot gaps.
Also, the biggest problem I see with zone and especially with people who want to run zone, is that they do not MAKE the kids take care of the number one defender. Too often the coaching points are "just step here and give a punch and move on to the next level".
Well, it is so much more than thate scheme-wise and phsicality-wise. And, this is learned through reps. Kids learn to play physical by playing physical. Kind of like lifting heavy weights.
HLB2, do you coach at Columbia?
|
|
|
|
Post by devilsadvocate on Dec 21, 2008 19:03:01 GMT -6
I would add that if you are going to evaluate your assistants in this fashion, which imo is flawed at best, then you have to allow them to evaluate you in the same manner.
jpdaley25, I love the idea. If I were a young coach starting out, I would love to be on your staff.
|
|
|
|
Post by hlb2 on Dec 22, 2008 6:13:48 GMT -6
I would add that if you are going to evaluate your assistants in this fashion, which imo is flawed at best, then you have to allow them to evaluate you in the same manner. jpdaley25, I love the idea. If I were a young coach starting out, I would love to be on your staff. I wasn't really evaluating staff so much as technique. I then started looking at the reasoning behind our not having technique and in my opinion a lot of that falls on the position coach...right? I don't see where this is flawed, how else do you hold your assistants accountable. Do not misread this either, my assistants are great...no...excellent character men who take time with these young men when they need it or have an issue etc. They do a good job of following along the lines of "coaching to change lives" and I'm proud of them on that. Basically put, this is pure technique evalutaion. This is another reason I don't want to let anybody go is because we have some great character men coaching here, who are trying not only to put a "W" on the scoreboard, but are also trying to make a difference in a young man's life. To me, this is huge, but at the end of the day when the opposition has more points than you, what does it really matter? You're not going to be there long if you can't produce wins, no matter how good of a role model you are for the young men in the community. No I do not coach at Columbia. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Dec 22, 2008 9:54:53 GMT -6
Sometimes, influencing change can be a difficult thing to do.
Don't you guys grade out positions as a part of your weekend film ritual? We grade our positions in depth on Sundays; it takes us up to 2-3 hours to get our last game graded. We really scrutinize the kids; I write a couple sentences of evalutation per play. The kids get copies of the DVD and their grade sheet from us. They know why they scored the way they did each week.
Your OL coach should have been able to pick up on all of the technique and fundamental issues if the film was analyzed correctly. If you graded the OL out as an F after the season and after your OL coach graded them out during the season, something needs to be done.
I mean, if one of our safeties rolls up a couple yards to tight on Sky C3; it's recorded on their grade sheet! One of our safeties picked up a failing grade because he was reading into the backfield instead of reading an uncovered OL. You could tell by how he had his head turned and how he reacted. The landscape is details.
Personally, if I were you, I would have an emergency meeting with all of your assistants. Have a little" brain trust" session, break down WHAT went wrong, WHY it went wrong, and HOW (all of you) are going to fix it. Don't access blame, don't point fingers, develop a game plan and get rolling on it. If it starts to get a little confrontational, throw yourself on the grenade and take the blame; BE CONSTRUCTIVE!
|
|
msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
|
Post by msalazar51 on Dec 28, 2008 1:47:43 GMT -6
I HATE, LOATH and DETEST the word "Hogs". What a crappy thing to say. Hey fat kids, I know you already don't get girlfriends, now were going to give you a title that is less than human and give them a title that associates them with a overwieght overeating fat animal. Yeah, and to take it one step further, call it "Hog-night" and stuff their faces till they can't walk and comment on how much they over eat in an unhealthy manner. Why not just have "wino-night" and invite all the drunks from around town over to your house and let them drink whiskey till they can't walk. Same thing. Just a personal perspective. This has nothing to do with the original post, but I have got to comment on this quoted text. Coach Orr, we too call our Oline Hogz and Dline are Dogz. The kids with these titles are so proud of it that both positions have come up with their own patches for their Letterman jackets! My own son was a Hog and LOVED IT! Comparing "Hog Dinner" to inviting strange alcoholics into my home and giving them alcohol is an absurd comparison! Relax and have a little fun! |
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 2:08:07 GMT -6
I can see your point about "relax", however, I think it is an important point to make. I am not going to bring this up too many more times, as I think it is falling on deaf ears.
But, many people have asked the question on these boards, "how do we get kids to want to play offensive line". Well, I might point out that calling them fat slimy creatures that eat swill may not be the best approach. Just because many people do not have a problem with it doesn't make it right. What if some kids who are already uncomfortable about the way they look chose not to play football because of the title? What good did it do?
It seems like fun, but I think we need to be careful at times with the labels we put on kids.
Just my opinion, go on doing what you do, but since the last metaphor was misunderstood, let me try another one. What if the high school drill team had a few overweight or big boned girls on it and we called them "The Hogs". Would that be appropriate? So, I am not sure why it is appropriate for football players.
Let me play devil's advocate, because these are interesting times we live in. What is going to be the platform you stand on when a parent becomes upset with the title? Will it be enough to say, "the kids love it"? or "We all do it and the kids put the name on their jackets?" Not sure that holds water. I would have put it on my jacket in HS, but I would not have liked being associated with pigs.
Might I recommend taking a secret ballot poll of the linemen and ask them if they like the title. If they do, then stick with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Dec 28, 2008 16:37:51 GMT -6
Having been in a very similar situation, I recommend taking a more involved role and getting your hands a bit dirtier than you might have preferred.
Two years ago I was Frosh DC and Special Teams with zero offensive responsibilities besides giving the best scout D look I could. I did a great job at all three, fielding an outstanding defense, truly dangerous special teams, and generally got the scout D to line up in the right place. Our offensive line coach was a great guy, good family man, and former college QB. His son was on our team, playing QB. He did a terrible, terrible job and it showed. Having experience within the offense as a tight end and having coached Oline before, I should have intervened and taken more of a role in the oline play. But, I deferred to the older coach (I had more experience) and kept my mouth shut. The result was a 2-8 season with a group that realistically could have been 8-2 very easily.
He got canned and replaced, but the damage was done. Only 1 of that group's top 5 lineman returned for JV ball and the online group was basically forced to start over because they were so poorly coached from the season before.
You cannot afford to have the oline coach be your worst coach on the staff. Nice guy? Fine. Friend? So be it. Experienced? Great. Ineffective? So long. You owe it to the young men you're coaching to put them in a position to succeed and flourish. If the current coach cannot provide that, you better coach his ass up and get him to where you want him to be, or find someone who will get it done.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 17:25:30 GMT -6
Great story Mariner. I would echo your comments and say the oline is a very important (in my mind the most important) position. If you can't block it or protect it, you can't run it or throw it.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachinghopeful on Dec 29, 2008 0:43:48 GMT -6
Great story Mariner. I would echo your comments and say the oline is a very important (in my mind the most important) position. If you can't block it or protect it, you can't run it or throw it. Exactly! There are basically 3 essential parts of every single offensive play: 1. Blocking 2. Exchange (snap and handoff/pass) 3. Advance (catching or running the ball upfield) It doesn't have to be executed perfectly, but if any part of that sequence goes bad, the play's a bust. And coachorr, I'm totally with you on the anti-"hog" sentiment. Most of these kids have real self esteem problems going back a long way, get teased by their skill position teammates, seldom get dates, and hate the way they look in the mirror. They get that already. No reason to tease them about it anymore. I don't see people coming up with nicknames for WRs or DBs because they're skinny, small, or not as strong. Funny how a coach never says "Those little worms are the backbone of everything we do!" There are such better names I've seen suggested on here, too. "Wrecking Crew," "Devil Dogs," "Bad@$$ Brigade," "The Great Wall..." all much superior IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Dec 30, 2008 12:24:03 GMT -6
I picked up on using the phrase "Differently skilled positions" in reference to lineman from my college's OL coach. We'd split off into "skilled positions" and "differently skilled positions", highlighting the fact that our OL was skilled, just in a different way.
I also refer to my throwers on the track team as the "good looking and athletic people" because, frankly, most of them aren't. They like it, the high jumpers and such try to tag along to share the title.
BTW, I call all of our wide receivers the "skinny kids", regardless of whether they are or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2008 18:01:01 GMT -6
Great comments, I love the BA Brigade. Nice one.
Coachinghopeful, I am not trying to make this an "I'm right" stance. Just trying to raise a little bit of awareness. Thank you, for your comments. I think you see where I am coming from.
I will sometimes say, "Skilled kids with me", "Fast guys who can catch over there".
|
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Dec 30, 2008 18:19:45 GMT -6
Look...
If my Big Um's are going to get all teary eyed because I call them Bubbas... then I'm already in trouble.
I'm as PC as they get...
But when it comes to being a Bubba... I'm not going to fool my guys by calling them the skill... when they are not...
I'm not going to patronize my kids, with promises of running the ball.
The entire essence of being a "bubba" is coming to grips with the fact, that we aren't small, fast, handling the ball...
We are the only people on the field graced with the title of being men... Backs, WR's, LineMEN...
It takes a real man, to be a lineman, cause only real men can hold the line!
If we can't take pride in being the most physical, the toughest, the care takers of the program... then whomever the fat boy is, that doesn't like to be called fat... needs to keep it moving... and see if they have a position on the soccer team for him!
|
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2008 18:24:17 GMT -6
Your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am dropping it. Khalfie, don't tell me you are one of those guys who hands out plays to the kids with only the backs and the receivers on them.  |
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Dec 30, 2008 18:37:19 GMT -6
Your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am dropping it. Khalfie, don't tell me you are one of those guys who hands out plays to the kids with only the backs and the receivers on them. Of course I am... We're A-11... NFBA... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2008 18:40:57 GMT -6
Well, I don't draw up plays with Backs and receivers. Every play is fumblerooski. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2008 18:53:12 GMT -6
Check it:
--------T-------T---G---C---G---T---Y ----------------T----T---G----
-------------------------T
|
|
