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Post by captain31 on Dec 17, 2008 19:12:44 GMT -6
Some of the flexbone discussions got me thinking...
What do you do if what you run on defense doesn't "match" what you do on offense?
Say you are the DC at Navy and you spend all spring and fall camp working against the flexbone when you don't see it once during the season. How much teaching and installation is lost (if any) during these crucial times if you are going against something you never see?
I guess this is more of a defensive topic, but you could apply it to offense as well. Say you run 65-70% of the time and your defense plays a 30 stack when you see 90% 40 fronts during the season. Do you lose time teaching your OL to block a 30 stack when you would rather be working against what you will see? Or do your rules apply against everything so working against a different front doesn't bother you too much?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 17, 2008 19:37:37 GMT -6
This is a great point, and I believe it really has an impact at the collegiate level.
Coaching defense while having a R&S offense created several administrative problems. Who played TE and FB for the scout team? Those kids aren't recruited. We always had to go with the littlest scout OT on run plays, and biggest scout wr on pass plays. This also puts additional pressure on the D Unit for special teams. Camp and Spring were always headaches. Our OL played in two point stances, so that was a subtle nuance that made things tougher than they needed to be.
Obviously a flexbone offense would not have several of these particular issues, but it isn't hard to speculate on the issues that WOULD exist. Dline not used to base blocks/zone techniques. DL probably don't get decent practice against decent pass sets/pass protection. Spring and Camp would be headaches.
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Post by rpetrie on Dec 18, 2008 19:49:59 GMT -6
I certainly agree that you defend best what you are on the offensive side. We are Wing-T and we've never given up more than 2-TDs to a Wing-T team in 8 years (16 games). But at the same time I would have to say that what you defend best, particularly at the HS level where most schools CAN'T 2-platoon, is what you base your teaching against from the onset of 2-a-days. We have always began with working against the Pro/Slot/Power-I and then Wing-T regarding alignment and read recognition. Next we work against Option. Then we go against spread. In essence we worked on how to re-adjust and keep our "core" intact. You guessed it...we stunk against spread early on last season, and we ate I/Power teams alive. Not one 2- or 3-RB offense gained 100+ yards the entire season. With so many teams now featuring Spread as their main or secondary attack, we are going to change our progression of teaching. We are going to base from defending Spread and then condense back down all the way to vs. Power-I. Of course there will have to be some personnel adjustments, but we feel this is a major issue that will hopefully allow our kids to feel more comfortable vs. Spread. Perhaps we just don't defend space very well because of our personnel, but we've got to try something.
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 19, 2008 9:25:30 GMT -6
We are spread and 3-3-5. We just do what we do. Obviously we fair better against spread teams, but our focus is making ourselves better. During the week, we spend our indy/scout time against the coming opponent, but even in season, we still work 1s v 1s and just do our stuff.
We see a good bit of spread in our region games. We went 3-3-5 b/c of the proliferation of the spread, but it also suited our type of kids.
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Post by CVBears on Dec 19, 2008 11:36:45 GMT -6
we are a multiple formation (although mostly spread-type sets) offense and a 46/bear defense. Two extremes if you ask me and I don't totally understand why either. But it is what it is.
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Post by 19delta on Dec 19, 2008 11:49:23 GMT -6
Found a video showing the last meeting between dcohio and the team's OC:
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Post by rip60zgo on Dec 19, 2008 17:07:24 GMT -6
So, coachd5085 and dcohio (or others), do you then feel it is prudent for your offense to at least have some semblance of a more basic scheme to give your defense a look that is somewhat reasonable at the high school level? What I mean, is that if you are a triple team, or a RnS team, should the offense have some base level of teaching in how to run more conventional schemes? Should they be taught the very basics of iso, power, zone, stretch, and/or quick game, dropback, just so you can hopefully provide at least an initial key read when you prepare? I agree at the college level that it is more about personnel as the football IQ is generally higher than high school.
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Post by khalfie on Dec 20, 2008 8:29:07 GMT -6
I didn't chime in on this thread... cause I really didn't get the quesiton.
If I understand it correctly... we are discussing... "our offenses responsibility to prepare our defense?"
Huh? NONE!
What I do on offense has no barring what I do on defense.
I know thats the easy answer, but you want to bring in "discretionary" practice... that is, the time when we are working on our offense, and the rest of the kids are playing SCOUT defense?
Ok, 2 things...
1. Defense is based off of fundamentals, more so than scheme.... that is, line up in the right postion, protect your area, strike a defensive blow, read your keys, recognize the pass, pursue the ball, make the tackle.
Regardless of where I align you, that's your job!
2. When scrimmaging my offense, or even inside and outside drill... we first practice against the most common look we'll see... a 50. Might change it to a 60, or drop it to a 40... play with covered and uncovered principles, and blitz.
Similarly on defense... when its defense time, I don't put my offense against it... I give a cursory look of the teams we face...
Why would I ever be concerned with how my defense and offense interact... with each other?
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on Dec 20, 2008 9:38:21 GMT -6
I think the main thing that applies here is that you are coaching the scout teams up. Once the the week starts the coach that is in charge of the scout team should have a meeting the with scout guys both offensively and defensively to get them doing the correct things. If you're just holding up cards expecting them to look at a picture for 5 seconds and then give you a good look, that is never going to happen.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2008 17:02:29 GMT -6
I didn't chime in on this thread... cause I really didn't get the quesiton. If I understand it correctly... we are discussing... "our offenses responsibility to prepare our defense?" Huh? NONE! What I do on offense has no barring what I do on defense. No, I don't believe you understand correctly. I believe the original thread, and initial responses were about running relatively one dimensional systems and how that affects the other unit during spring ball and camp. For example, if I coach an aggressive stunting 3-3 stack team on Defense, and my offense is primarily flexbone triple...how does that affect my spring practice and fall camp sessions. That is the question at hand. As I put in my post , coaching defensive at a R&S university presented several administrative issues, as well as some practice issues for the team. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 22, 2008 9:19:30 GMT -6
We don't worry about our offense during spring ball we rep plays from different formations. They only time our offense goes against our defense is the spring game.
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