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Post by here4thekids on Dec 16, 2008 22:38:44 GMT -6
1) A situation where you are the HC of a successful program, go to the playoffs every year, won a championship or two BUT the teaching environment is horrible.
OR
2)A situation where you are the HC of a horrible program where you win 1-2 games a year, HOWEVER the teaching environment is awesome.
Let's say you got into the teaching field because of your love for coaching and coaching a successful program is one of your primary objectives. You want to be happy as a teacher and you want to be successful as a coach, but let's say you can't get both. Which option do you now choose?
**I did not define horrible but you can use your imagination to picture what "horrible" means to you.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 16, 2008 23:05:25 GMT -6
What is the administrative support like for the football program? What is the weight room like? What is the off season budget like? Is it private? Are there school boundaries? Would I be expected to win right away?
I would take the teaching position assuming all of the answers to these questions were positive. And assuming I would be able to make a significant impact to the program.
One thing to be cautious of, however, is not having a coaching position in two years and not being able to find another gig, because I was so horrible. Bottom line failure is the ultimate blame of the head coach.
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Post by nickknx865 on Dec 16, 2008 23:58:10 GMT -6
What exactly do you mean by horrible teaching enviroment? Do you mean a poor, inner city school with books from the 60's and 70's? Or are we talking just a bunch of bad apples in the school?
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Post by amikell on Dec 17, 2008 7:07:07 GMT -6
i think he meant to define horrible on your own terms.
I would take it to mean that the admin is unsupportive and is in your classroom constantly telling you how to do you job and breathing down you neck about test scores while piling on non teaching assignments that take you away from your planning periods so you can actually get the test scores the admin wants.
ahhh, sorry about that rant, return to you football discussion....
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Post by tvt50 on Dec 17, 2008 7:46:00 GMT -6
I pick #1. Teaching situation is horrible? What do you mean by that? You are the head coach of your classroom. Nobody else runs it. You make your teaching situation what it is and at those schools you can touch so many kids lives.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 17, 2008 8:07:45 GMT -6
It depends on how the two jobs are tied together. If you loose the football job are you out of the teaching job as well? I know around here once you have a teaching job it pretty much takes God himself to come down from heaven to get you fired (not that it's a good thing but that's a whole another can of worms) so would you be looking out for your future taking the teaching job in a great environment or is it strictly a football situation. Have seen several guys around here get in a good district for the coaching gig then in a few years they are out of coaching with admin. jobs or tenured into a good district till they retire. So I would have to answer it depends on how inner connected the two are
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Fridge
Sophomore Member
Re-Building the Bocholt Rhinos (18+) in Germany for 2024.
Posts: 148 
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Post by Fridge on Dec 17, 2008 8:18:55 GMT -6
Success isn´t my primary goal. But what I´ve learned is, that if you have a positive environment and enjoy Coaching that particular team, then success will surely come after some more seasons.
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Post by warrior53 on Dec 17, 2008 8:24:58 GMT -6
I wish it were like that everywhere tvt50, but it is just not that way. Administrators can make it hard on you if they don't back you. It is like being an assistant coach if the head coach is weak, doesn't work very well. I have had friends that are in situations like this - not pretty.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 17, 2008 8:28:41 GMT -6
I do not have the time to read all of this, in short, take the better teaching environment. If you lost your ability to coach at least you have a good teaching gig. You can also win more games by coaching up those kids cant you?
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Post by coachweav88 on Dec 17, 2008 11:19:36 GMT -6
can you teach at one school and coach at another? not ideal, but is it possible for you?
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Post by phantom on Dec 17, 2008 11:40:04 GMT -6
I wish it were like that everywhere tvt50, but it is just not that way. Administrators can make it hard on you if they don't back you. It is like being an assistant coach if the head coach is weak, doesn't work very well. I have had friends that are in situations like this - not pretty. I agree with that. Things like the number of preps, planning periods, etc. can make a teaching/coaching a lot easier or a lot harder. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 17, 2008 13:20:23 GMT -6
I recently made a big job change. My classes went down from an average of 30 kids to about 10, I went from 6 classes a day, two duties a day to 3 classes a day and one duty. My prep period doubled in length. I also picked up 3 weight training classes. The job itself, aside from football is much nicer. The school is very laid back and "open" when compared to the other that had several lock downs a year and all of the doors were locked all of the time, bathrooms too. Now, the grass isnt always greener but in this case for the moment it appears so.
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Post by here4thekids on Dec 17, 2008 13:34:30 GMT -6
This is not a personal question that I would like insight on..........it is more of a philosophical question to see what situation you would rather be in.
That is why I did not define "horrible" and prefaced the question by saying you would have to define horrible in your own terms. A bad situation for me might be a great situation for you. So using your theory of what constitutes as being horrible, which situation would you prefer: A great football program/bad teaching environment......or.......a bad football program/good teaching environment?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 17, 2008 13:54:19 GMT -6
Well, I really do not believe there is a bad football job out there. I waited too long and worked too hard to get this one to think there are any bad ones. Id have taken just about any HC job out there and coped with whatever issues there were for a chance to do my thing and lead the program. Beggers cant be too choosy I guess.
Similarly before I landed my first teaching assignment Id have gone just about anywhere to do that too. Its called being Hungry I guess or maybe just stupid and impatient? IF you want to be a HC and it means taking a job at a school thats poor and lousy so be it. Accept the challenge and do your thing. If however you feel that the loss is too much to overcome on the teaching end of things then maybe you need to reconsider. Right now in this economy Id say a job change is a risky thing. Id take the bad football program/good teaching environment over the other. ITs much easier to change the football environment than it is to change the teaching environment.
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Post by here4thekids on Dec 17, 2008 14:15:45 GMT -6
Some people have stated that with a good school environment you will have the ability to coach your guys up and become successful in due time. Not to say that this isn't possible but in some places it is very hard if not darn near impossible. You can be at a school that you love teaching/working at but not be able to create a successful program.
In my opinion there are many things that go in building a successful program that the coach cannot bring or alter. Just to name a few: demographic make-up, crime rates, % of two-parent households, ESOL/Sp. Ed. rates, football history, administrative support for football, etc. Many of these problems can exist in good school environments, however they greatly affect your ability to build a successful program. So now you are in a situation where you love the teaching aspect.....but lack the ability to build a successful program (playoff caliber team year in and out). Just my 2 cents.
But is this better than being in a situation where from a football program standpoint you are great (winning championships, going deep into the playoffs yearly), but you can't stand the teaching environment. Many people touched on different factors that can make your teaching environment miserable. Some things include administration that meddles (not giving you space), administration that takes you times away, students who are off the chain (lack of management and discipline system by school leaders), class size, schedule of classes, structure of the building, etc.
But I guess my main question is which scenario would you rather deal with as a football coach whose primary goals are to provide for your family and be succesful in the realm of football (of course successful can be defined many different ways by many different people).
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Post by here4thekids on Dec 17, 2008 14:20:42 GMT -6
"ITs much easier to change the football environment than it is to change the teaching environment."
Good point.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 17, 2008 18:31:01 GMT -6
Much rather the great teaching environment.
You teach from 7ish-3ish. Most Coach from 3ish to ..maybe 7 or 8ish..OR less (I have never been with a H.S. staff that was there past 7 unless there was much B.S going on.
You teach from August-May. You coach from August to December.
You get paid 30K+ to teach. You get paid 2Kish+ to coach.
You can always leave at 3pm...
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Post by dacoachmo on Dec 17, 2008 19:59:59 GMT -6
easier to change the football program YOU run
then change the school you are only a part.
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Post by coachnichols on Dec 17, 2008 21:59:31 GMT -6
I've done this. Several years ago I was teaching in one building and coaching in another. The school I was teaching at was a magnet high school that didn't have sports. After doing this for two years, the school I was coaching at had a teaching position open so I went there to teach. It was the complete opposite teaching environment from what I was used to and I freakin' hated it! I was miserable on the teaching side of things. It made it easier overall since I worked with the kids more directly, but looking back on it, I shouldn't have done it. I wasn't able to deal with it at that time like I think I would now. I would handle it a lot better now than I did. Hindsight and the whole 20/20 thing...
IMO it all depends on why you're teaching. If you're teaching so you can coach, screw the teaching situation and go where YOU will be most successful/happy with coaching. If you're teaching because you enjoy it just like you do coaching, then that has to be a consideration. Hating the teaching environment/situation will affect your whole life. Choosing one over the other would be tough...I guess at this point in my life I'd choose coaching and make the teaching situation work.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 17, 2008 22:41:02 GMT -6
I think touchdownmaker just clarified what we would all take. I am with his decision.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 17, 2008 22:58:37 GMT -6
I also think we are better off coming from bad situations. I was an ESL teacher for a while, not that it was a bad situation the kids were just harder. So, when I went to a tough teaching position at the Junior High level, it was same old situation. Love the kids no matter their inconsistencies and their environmental issues... just love them regardless. That being said, I could coach in hell and still be okay. Not a wish, just that I love kids and I prefer the kids who have little to cling on to but can find a lifeline in me. All you can do is love them.
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Post by warrior53 on Dec 18, 2008 10:48:20 GMT -6
Well, I really do not believe there is a bad football job out there. I waited too long and worked too hard to get this one to think there are any bad ones. Id have taken just about any HC job out there and coped with whatever issues there were for a chance to do my thing and lead the program. Beggers cant be too choosy I guess. Similarly before I landed my first teaching assignment Id have gone just about anywhere to do that too. Its called being Hungry I guess or maybe just stupid and impatient? IF you want to be a HC and it means taking a job at a school thats poor and lousy so be it. Accept the challenge and do your thing. If however you feel that the loss is too much to overcome on the teaching end of things then maybe you need to reconsider. Right now in this economy Id say a job change is a risky thing. Id take the bad football program/good teaching environment over the other. ITs much easier to change the football environment than it is to change the teaching environment. I used to agree with you until I came to my present situation. There are some situations where you just do not fit as a coach. My head coach took this one - he does not fit in here! He has been here one year, the kids and the community turned on him and he is a good coach, just not the right one for this job - it was a bad job for him. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 18, 2008 11:14:10 GMT -6
Well, I really do not believe there is a bad football job out there. I waited too long and worked too hard to get this one to think there are any bad ones. Id have taken just about any HC job out there and coped with whatever issues there were for a chance to do my thing and lead the program. Beggers cant be too choosy I guess. Similarly before I landed my first teaching assignment Id have gone just about anywhere to do that too. Its called being Hungry I guess or maybe just stupid and impatient? IF you want to be a HC and it means taking a job at a school thats poor and lousy so be it. Accept the challenge and do your thing. If however you feel that the loss is too much to overcome on the teaching end of things then maybe you need to reconsider. Right now in this economy Id say a job change is a risky thing. Id take the bad football program/good teaching environment over the other. ITs much easier to change the football environment than it is to change the teaching environment. I used to agree with you until I came to my present situation. There are some situations where you just do not fit as a coach. My head coach took this one - he does not fit in here! He has been here one year, the kids and the community turned on him and he is a good coach, just not the right one for this job - it was a bad job for him. Lets hope he takes more than one year to evaluate that. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 21, 2008 14:35:39 GMT -6
#2...
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