|
|
Post by ajreaper on Dec 12, 2008 11:27:47 GMT -6
I am seriously considering starting to do this begining with spring ball in May. If you currently do this what advice can you give in implementing this? What problems did you come across and what were your solutions to them? If you have sample practice schedules etc can I get copies of them? If you tried this and gave up on the concept- why? What were the issues that could not be resolved?
To those of you who do this and you believe you do it well and will be in Nashville for the AFCA conference would you be willing to spend an hour or so with me concerning this?
|
|
mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
|
Post by mce86 on Dec 12, 2008 12:20:58 GMT -6
I've done this in the past to some extent; I know of teams who do it as well; basically Individual periods are done together; team matchups are starters vs. best JV combo; soph team is limited but they should get most of their reps in group and indy periods.
When I have done them together, it's typically not been completely together. Varsity D, Soph O, etc....one way players would practice with both levels.
A mjor problem, is there are some players who are not physically capable of competing with older kids.
One thing ive thought about, is practicing two entire levels: Varsity/JV and then a Frosh-Soph squad. How ive thought about it is those sophs who could practice with JV would, and those underdeveloped would practice frosh-soph.....
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Dec 12, 2008 13:34:15 GMT -6
We do. But...
We are in the biggest (AAAA) division and have 100+ kids on Var/JV. We also have a Freshman team. We don't place a lot of emphasis on the JV team. Plus when we get into region play our Jrs. can play JV, so JV is 10th/11th that don't start. Another big plus for our state is that kids can play 8 quarters a week. So I don't know if this will help but:
We do it all together. Not a hard fast rule, but obviously 1s are varsity starters and 2s are the backups/JV. When we have team periods, we go 1s vs. 1s and 2s vs. 2s. Occasionally if we don't want to beat up on each other we go 1s vs. 2s.
Also, when we get into region play, we will bust up the 2s to create the best possible look for the scout teams. IE we may have to put a #2 WR on the scout team to give the secondary the best look. We decide this during our Sunday meetings.
-It lets all our coaches work with all our kids
-It lets us teach our concepts to all the kids
-It helps to create competition
-It makes it easy for a kid to 'move up' b/c he sees what we do daily
-It allows us to put those kids who can't quite start, but may be able to play a role as a special teams player
-It allows us to keep the organization of our in season lifting/running simple
-It really helps with having the right number of coaches during practice IE 2 OL coaches watching, 2 DB coaches watching.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Wingtman on Dec 12, 2008 13:44:24 GMT -6
We;ve always practiced together.
Indy period is everyone with their coaches.
Team time is Varsity 1's and Varsity "2s" vs. Best D (Seniors-Freshman) on Tuesday
Wed is Varstiy 1 and JV starting O vs. Best D
Thursday is Varsity 1. Jv team stays 25 minutes after and runs over their stuff
Friday we seek and destroy.
Team Defense is always varsity 1 and main subs vs. Best O. Any other JV starters go work on their stuff at this time. On Thursdays we work our jv d 20 minutes after practice. So in the end JV stays 45 minutes after varsity is done and gets ALL the coaches attention.
We have 65 kids 9-12. No Freshman team.
|
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Dec 12, 2008 13:50:54 GMT -6
MAKE SURE THAT YOU GIVE THE YOUNGER KIDS REPS DURING TEAM!!!
That is the hardest thing... If you are going planning to give the varsity 40 snaps and JV 15 snaps during team... Make sure you give the JV at least the 15 reps you intended. It's easy to get caught up in the "we need more reps varsity" mode and neglect the JV... If you do this, then next year the varsity will REALLY need reps cause they didn't get any the year before when they were JV.
Also... If you do have "JV" coaches, then have the JV do the opposite team concept than the varsity. After they do individual drills with the varsity kids, have the JV do thier defense vs. the Varsity offense, and visa versa. You can learn quick which kids will back down and which ones will step up and not be afraid too.
|
|
|
|
Post by kboyd on Dec 12, 2008 14:02:02 GMT -6
We have our JV's and varsity together for warmup/agilities and indy time, then split up for team periods. Our JV's play on Wednesdays, so a lot of our situational periods are scheduled for those days and we have no indy time then, as our OL, DL and DB coaches are our JV coaches. It works well for us and that way all of the kids are getting the same coaching for their individual positions.
|
|
|
|
Post by macwomac on Dec 12, 2008 14:35:32 GMT -6
MAKE SURE THAT YOU GIVE THE YOUNGER KIDS REPS DURING TEAM!!! That is the hardest thing... If you are going planning to give the varsity 40 snaps and JV 15 snaps during team... Make sure you give the JV at least the 15 reps you intended. It's easy to get caught up in the "we need more reps varsity" mode and neglect the JV... If you do this, then next year the varsity will REALLY need reps cause they didn't get any the year before when they were JV. This is very important. We are small and so practice JV/varsity together all the time. We make sure to get them some live time with the varsity as defense, but have to get creative to get extra reps. One thing we've done is have an extra team time for the JV where they get reps on dummies. They play JV games on Monday nights, so during Tuesday conditioning or active warm-up we will pull the JV'ers and show them some love. |
|
|
|
Post by Wingtman on Dec 12, 2008 15:24:44 GMT -6
Our JV plays on Monday nights as well. If the game went well Tuesday they had conditioning off Tuesday, not talking about win/loss. Just more executed well, lack of mental mistakes, flew to the ball. If not, run with everyone else.
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdowng on Dec 12, 2008 21:53:23 GMT -6
reap
This is what we do:
We practice all 9th through 12th together (115-125 players) on one field.
9th and lower end 10th are together on 1/2 of the field. This is our Freshman team with less developed/experienced 10th graders together. These 10th graders are the guys who get limited time in the JV games. Their challenge is to try to graduate to the older side of the field.
11th and 12th and best 10th are together on 1/2 of the field. This is essentially our JV and Varsity Squads. The 10th graders we bring over are those who will play Varsity special teams and/or can be strong enough to be a #2 at a varsity O or D spot. We usually have 4-6 of them with us and the number usually grows to 10-12 as the season progresses.
We flip O with D about 1/2 way through and work special teams, too (usually at the start of prac).
Our staff is platooned - 6 coach O and 6 coach D
The biggest benefit is that a 9th grader gets the same quality coaching that a 12th grader gets because he's being coached by the same 1 or 2 coaches at his position. I demand a lot from my assistant's in terms of knowledge executing a solid indo period. I have my most experienced coaches in charge of group period (I/S Run / Skelly). The coordinators run the Team period.
Every coach in our program feels vested on Friday nights because all are coaching a position that matters at Varsity Games. My coaches love this!
Works really well for us but it took some work to orchestrate how we do it. We move on the scoreclock in 5 to 10 min periods and the practices are very up tempo.
|
|
clloyd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 210
|
Post by clloyd on Dec 12, 2008 22:00:06 GMT -6
The past two years we have split the practice basically into two halfs. The Varsity will be on offense for half of the practice and then switch to Defense. The JV is doing the opposite. The Coaching staff only coach one position so they coach all of the same players in their positions for the entire program. We have not enjoyed alot of success on JV. I want to believe we are doing it the best way, The time becomes an issue though because if we wanted to go longer for Varsity Offense then that would mean the Varsity Defense is cut shorter and the JV Offense would also be shorter.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Dec 13, 2008 16:41:53 GMT -6
The past two years we have split the practice basically into two halfs. The Varsity will be on offense for half of the practice and then switch to Defense. The JV is doing the opposite. The Coaching staff only coach one position so they coach all of the same players in their positions for the entire program. We have not enjoyed alot of success on JV. I want to believe we are doing it the best way, The time becomes an issue though because if we wanted to go longer for Varsity Offense then that would mean the Varsity Defense is cut shorter and the JV Offense would also be shorter. Coach: The best team in our league (state champs) does it this way. except they split the days. day 1 varsity offense, jv defense and then flip it the next day.. I was talking with their DC one day and asked him how he liked it... he said he was a little skepical at first but now loves it. like you said.. all kids get quality coaching. the only potential hitch I see is not getting enough quality coaches. |
|
|
|
Post by jackedup on Dec 13, 2008 20:47:33 GMT -6
How many coaches do you think you would need to coach jv and var together? 8?
|
|
|
|
Post by coach1619 on Dec 14, 2008 11:08:04 GMT -6
We platooned last year. Defensively I had only 1 senior returning with any experience. (I was the OC last year and was given the DC so the HC took the offense to rebuild the defense this past season). I had to play a lot of junior and sophs using the JV games to help teach the importance of techniques. I feel that by platooning last year I was able to develop more kids for next year that would not have gotten the same opportunity if we had guys play both sides of the ball. We play a lot of teams that play both sides of the ball and get beat up by the time districts/playoffs come. By platooning we have reduced injuries and developed depth at all positions. Now don't get me wrong, we will play the studs on both sides of the ball. We have emphasis players (he is a densive player that gets 15-20 minutes of off indy time everyday, and vice versa). HC and I are going back and forthe about platooning or going back to kids and coaches playing/coaching both sides of the ball. I like the depth and the saying that my kids are only learning half of what your kids (teams that play both sides) learn and get twice the time to master it. We have platooned once before and had some success and then went away from it the next year. Then went back to it this past season. I would like to try it back to back once to see the results. Next year defensively we have a lot of returners and off we will be young. (just the opp of this past season) We are trying to find a way to "tweak" platooning to make it better for us. My question is to those coaches who platoon. Do you platoon and "NO"one plays both sides? Do you have a couple of difference makers play both ways and the rest on side? When do you determine what side the player will be on: soph year or freshman year? How do you divide up practice time for those sophs that still play both sides of the ball? (That is what we do right now. After their soph year we evaluate them and determine what side of the ball they will focus on their jr. and sr. year.) Sorry for the long post, but I really need some advice. Thanks again for any and all comments/suggestions!
|
|
allie
Probationary Member
Posts: 9
|
Post by allie on Dec 17, 2008 8:37:21 GMT -6
Has anyone had any liability problems with working the JV and varsity together? (injuries) What about losing a bunch of freshman because of the fear of working with the older kids? How do you handle these potential problems?
|
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on Dec 17, 2008 8:52:56 GMT -6
Has anyone had any liability problems with working the JV and varsity together? (injuries) What about losing a bunch of freshman because of the fear of working with the older kids? How do you handle these potential problems? I could see issues with this as well, however in my situation we have a seperate freshman squad and they practice on there own. Men thank you for your thoughts and suggestions it is much appreciated! |
|
|
|
Post by dhooper on Dec 17, 2008 10:56:08 GMT -6
I do the same as clloyd. I feel that the same coaches need to coach the athletes. That way they hear the same thing. Each coach is in charge of there position. I have a head JV coach thats follows the JV. works well if you have the numbers, coaches and players
|
|
chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
|
Post by chuff on Dec 18, 2008 23:47:56 GMT -6
I attempted to work the Varsity and JV together last season. The problem was that, while most of the JV was able to keep up, a few fell between the cracks and were totally lost mentally, which turned into coping mechanisms or "survival mode" physically. Unfortunately, were were not deep enough on the JV to allow them to lagg too far behind. It really slowed down the progress of the entire JV team, and the tempo of the practice. We had an incredible gap between our star players and the supporting cast. By the end of the year, we were back to practicing Varsity and JV separately due to this problem.
Next season the plan is to move up the advanced Soph right away. The theory is that it will be an easier transition to have these good players play down if needed (and allow the type who got lost last year to learn at the normal pace) than it is to try to get ALL the sophomores to play up. Any advice?
|
|
|
|
Post by atalbert on Jan 14, 2009 9:50:07 GMT -6
Actually had a different experience. We are a smaller school (2A) and have about 60 kids in the whole program (F/S and Var). I was FS HC last year and ASKED to go against the varsity every day. Some were scared out of their minds at first, but after 3 weeks of taking their lumps, they got sick of it and started to stand up to them.
After 4 weeks, we had practices where defensively we would hold varsity to less than 20 yards in 10 plays. After some good chewing by the HC, Varsity started going 100% all of the time which ramped up competition even more. By Week 4 or 5, our FS games were like slow motion to the kids. We held 6 of 9 opponents to less yards than rushes attempted. 2 of varsity's 3 losses were to eventual state champions (different classes) in our conference.
That 20 minutes of practice was like a war every day. We could have easily given up and said it was too hard on the F/S, but you could see one or two kids decide they weren't taking it anymore every day. It was much better competition than going against B's for Varsity and obviously the best comp. for the FS as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by cjamerson on Jan 14, 2009 11:29:25 GMT -6
We've done this for as long as I can remember. We are a small school. Last year, we had best numbers in 14 years with 37 kids. These past few seasons we've even had a few freshman start on Friday nights. Mostly special team stuff, but had a true 14 year old frosh start at LT a couple years back.
It's tough for us to get everyone a good amount of individual attention. Especially the younger guys. We have a total of three coaches on the JV / Varsity level. One way we get everyone plenty reps during team is the use of trash cans. We set up a particular defense, and have a Varsity huddle going along with the JV huddle waiting in the wings. As soon as the Varsity completes the play, the JV lines up and runs their play. One huddle is breaking as another one is forming.
Getting the younger guys good "Team Defense" is the real challenge. We did a lot of "half-line" stuff with the JV guys. They get a lot of drill work in their individual "D" periods and we mostly get them prepared in the meeting room.
As far as someone getting hurt (older guy creaming a younger guy), it's our jobs to make sure the "mis-matches" are taken away. We are held liable if we line two guys up that are the same age but one is obviously far superior to the other, the only thing that changes in our situation is the age of the competitor. An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachsky on Jan 14, 2009 17:20:01 GMT -6
We practice together. One thing we incorporated this year is to have what we call "extended 1's".
So when we are working - First Team - we have 3 nonstarting OL rotating in. 1 QB - 2 Backs - 2 Rec - 1 TE constantly rotating in with the starting unit. So when call for ones - we have 18 to 20 kids getting reps.
Similarly on Defense - We have an extra 3 DL / 2 LBers / 3 DB's rotating in constantly.
When you think about it, in reality there is no #2's. When would you ever sholde sale sub? A huge blowout. We would never field a team of #2's. We rarely whole sale clear our bench, it happens, but rarely. We are more likely to rotate 5-6 kids at a time.
We have 1's and the kids that will replace them because of injuries or because they are very close in ability. We think it's vital that these guys get regular time reppng with 1's.
Same with a starting QB, we don't want him throwing to 2's and 3's all the time. It doesn't simulate game situations.
This has really helped our team, we are less never nervous about injuries or pulling a kid to talk to him or give him a blow. More players are engaged and know they will see action when it counts. They know they can subbed in almost anytime.
We had a D-1 RB this year. When he went down this year the team never changed their emotional approach, they were confident. We also lost 2 starting lineman for a few weeks. No drama for the players, they had confidence in their back-ups because they repped with them everyday.
|
|
