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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 29, 2008 19:04:30 GMT -6
tog- I agree..but here, unfortunately, is the pisser...in the NFL (and all pro sports for that matter) if you cut the player, it generally results in a LOSING situation for the team. That pain in the but player then plays with a chip on his shoulder...shines...and if you don't have a stellar season..you look bad.
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Post by hustleandheart on Nov 29, 2008 19:07:34 GMT -6
Giants wide receiver Plaxico Burress Plaxico Burress caught a bullet in his leg while fumbling with a gun in the vestibule of a Manhattan nightclub, sources said.
The trouble-plagued gridiron star blasted himself through his right thigh just after midnight near the VIP entrance to the LQ nightclub on Lexington Avenue and had to be hospitalized, sources familiar with the incident said.
Burress, 31, was allegedly trying to get into the hot spot with fellow Giants player Antonio Pierce when they were confronted by security guards looking for weapons.
The Super Bowl hero, who caught the game-winning catch in the Giants' big win over the Patriots in January, admitted to the guards that he was carrying heat.
He then allegedly moved over to a secluded area away from the club's velvet rope with a guard and started taking the gun out.
It's not clear exactly what happened next, but Burress apparently started trying to unload the bullets from the gun and bobbled it. A shot went off accidentally, ripping through his leg.
At first, security tried to call an ambulance, but Burress refused. He took himself to Cornell Medical Center, where he was treated and released at 2 p.m. today.
It was not clear what kind of pistol Burress shot himself with or where he got it. He has an expired license to carry a gun in Florida, which would not have allowed him to have a gun in New York.
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Post by tog on Nov 29, 2008 19:08:44 GMT -6
i gotta sleep at night 5085
me looking bad isn't as bad to me as having my team know that we are going to do things right
ok let's put this in the high school/college realm
wouldn't he already be gone?
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Post by 19delta on Nov 29, 2008 19:15:35 GMT -6
Whether SEAN Taylor was a random target at that particular time is in question..there are MANY unanswered questions in the case as stated by the police. The fact remains that Taylor lived like a thug and eventually died like one also. Read the police reports. The investigating officers said that Taylor was a victim of random violence and that the people who broke into Taylor's home did not expect him to be there. And your comment that Taylor "died like a thug" borders on flat-out racism. A man is murdered in cold blood IN HIS HOME while his child and the mother of his child cower in fear under the bed, watching and listening as the horrific events unfold, and all you can say is he "died like a thug"? You sir, are a complete horse's a$$.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 29, 2008 19:21:54 GMT -6
I would imagine that the Giants could make a very good case for not paying Burress, though. I mean, the guy is paid millions of dollars to catch footballs and now, because he is a dumbass, he won't be able to do that. Why should the Giants continue to write him a check? It's not like this was an injury sustained in the course of his job performance...
As far as would you want this guy on your team? Well, the NFL is a completely different entity than high school ball. In high school, a guy like this wouldn't play for me but, in the pros, all that matters is performance and, as long as a guy performs at a high level, he can act the fool.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 29, 2008 19:22:07 GMT -6
khalfie---the "fired" part, is not based on this sole accident. In fact, based on the article hustle and heart posted, it seems pretty innocent. The issue is the RE RE RE Reoccurring incidences where Burress puts himself far above his team.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 20:38:05 GMT -6
How many of us leave the house with a handgun when we go out to "socialize"? Even when I was a kid and lived in the hood, none of us did. If it is a place you feel you need to be armed, maybe that's a place you can choose to avoid going to. It isnt like he isnt mobile and cant find safe and reasonable places to go to, I just dont get that. Depends, Dave, I carry off duty, though not all the time...which is bad, we're supposed to. Anymore, you never know where you will need to be armed? In cases of self defense, it's better to be and not need it than need it and not be. Also being mobile, isn't always the solution, It's not where you go , it's who's there when you are. I have no problem with the guy carrying a gun, hell as an Eagles fan I have no problem with the guy shooting himself either. (given the injury wasn't serious) The only issues I would have is if he was carrying the gun illegally, which appears to be the case, or the firearm itself was illegal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 20:55:08 GMT -6
I understand carrying a gun because you feel threatened. It is easy to say "if you feel threatened, don't go there". These are young, single guys with some money...what do you expect them to do? Sit at home on the weekend reading the Bible? Here's the problem I have...why was the gun out? If you are going to carry a gun because you feel that people are trying to hurt you or steal from you, fine. You have the right to protect yourself. But why was Buress's gun not holstered? Guns just don't fire on their own...they are complicated mechanical devices that require a substantial amount of pressure applied in a very specific manner to discharge. So, what was Plaxico doing? Was he showing off? Was he drunk? Either behavior is completely inconsistent with responsible gun ownership. But that would be my question if I'm Tom Coughlin..."Plaxico, why was the gun unholstered?" Leads me to believe that there is a lot more to this story. From what it sounds like he was attempting to clear the weapon prior to entry ti the club. As a cop I've seen a few accidental discharges in that manner, especially with weapons like GLOCK, and similar pistols. (Ex the DEA agent that shot himself)
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 29, 2008 21:43:39 GMT -6
Wow for a board that is very very very politically conservative there are a lot of people here hating on his constitutionally protected right to carry a firearm. unreal aint it? now let's focus on the football aspect of this would you want plax on your team? skips out on meetings just becuase he knows he isn't going to play? after all the other crap he has pulled? i would trade him for best value or just cut him If he were a teenager still...yeah, I'd take him on my team. Great talent, and I'd hope, and I hope his teammates, would be a positive influence on his life. Never heard has was a problem in the locker room. He skips meetings, he misses games. If you meant on my favorite NFL team, the Packers...2 years ago, I'd of said yeah, love to have him. Now? Even without the gun violence incident...no.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 29, 2008 21:53:08 GMT -6
I understand carrying a gun because you feel threatened. It is easy to say "if you feel threatened, don't go there". These are young, single guys with some money...what do you expect them to do? Sit at home on the weekend reading the Bible? Here's the problem I have...why was the gun out? If you are going to carry a gun because you feel that people are trying to hurt you or steal from you, fine. You have the right to protect yourself. But why was Buress's gun not holstered? Guns just don't fire on their own...they are complicated mechanical devices that require a substantial amount of pressure applied in a very specific manner to discharge. So, what was Plaxico doing? Was he showing off? Was he drunk? Either behavior is completely inconsistent with responsible gun ownership. But that would be my question if I'm Tom Coughlin..."Plaxico, why was the gun unholstered?" Leads me to believe that there is a lot more to this story. From what it sounds like he was attempting to clear the weapon prior to entry ti the club. As a cop I've seen a few accidental discharges in that manner, especially with weapons like GLOCK, and similar pistols. (Ex the DEA agent that shot himself) Well...he CLEARLY needs a refresher course. How tough is it to clear a pistol? #1 Point muzzle in a safe direction #2 Make sure the manual safety is on. #3 Drop the magazine #4 Rack the slide and lock it open while keeping your finger outside the trigger guard #5 Inspect the breech and bolt face for chambered rounds #6 Release the slide How tough is that? If what is being reported is true, Plaxico is a complete {censored} who doesn't have even a novice's level of experience with firearms. By my count, he violated at least 4 of the steps I have listed above.
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Post by spreadattack on Nov 29, 2008 21:57:23 GMT -6
Wow for a board that is very very very politically conservative there are a lot of people here hating on his constitutionally protected right to carry a firearm. unreal aint it? Maybe if that is what the 2nd amendment (or s. Ct.) said, except plax had a gun in a friggin club (hardly stored away in his bedside table), there's no indication that the 2nd applies to the states (the amendment was targeted at congress, not states, and if nothing else it's an open question), and the scope of the individual right is not as broad as you assume (to paraphrase tog, a well regulated militia and all that stuff) In any event, plax is silly
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Post by davecisar on Nov 30, 2008 6:45:02 GMT -6
How many of us leave the house with a handgun when we go out to "socialize"? Even when I was a kid and lived in the hood, none of us did. If it is a place you feel you need to be armed, maybe that's a place you can choose to avoid going to. It isnt like he isnt mobile and cant find safe and reasonable places to go to, I just dont get that. Depends, Dave, I carry off duty, though not all the time...which is bad, we're supposed to. Anymore, you never know where you will need to be armed? In cases of self defense, it's better to be and not need it than need it and not be. Also being mobile, isn't always the solution, It's not where you go , it's who's there when you are. I have no problem with the guy carrying a gun, hell as an Eagles fan I have no problem with the guy shooting himself either. (given the injury wasn't serious) The only issues I would have is if he was carrying the gun illegally, which appears to be the case, or the firearm itself was illegal. If you are a police officer, you can legally carry, you have a reason to. You know how to safely handle a firearm, have reasonable decision making skills and probably wouldnt be drinking heavily etc one would hope. I guess your arguement is that we should all be allowed to carry all the time concealed. Wow, Im sure that would make for lots fewers handgun shootings amoung drunken bar patrons, just think of the "dissed" or jealous partner situations. BTW I own 3 firearms, including a pistol and do hunt. The key is do you really need firearms in safe legit places? I just dont frequent places like the one Plax went to that have metal detectors or guards in the front patting people down for firearms. I know places like that, we all do. Thats usually a fairly good indication that the place is one that is prone to violence, not safe etc. ie a place reasonable people dont go. BUT some as you know are attracted to that kind of scene and somehow get off by living on the edge, carring guns etc Even if your not from the hood, ( The Smith Kids dad was a police officer, middle class family etc) There are Tons of places to go that dont draw that type of crowd. He obviously wanted to go in and according to the article shot himself. Seriously, do all night clubs have problems with shootings and people packing? We are all in danger in all places all the time, so we should all be packing ? Come now. From what I understand this guy has a long term pattern of poor decision making, one would think a poor long term investment for most teams even in the NFL. .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 7:19:35 GMT -6
From what it sounds like he was attempting to clear the weapon prior to entry ti the club. As a cop I've seen a few accidental discharges in that manner, especially with weapons like GLOCK, and similar pistols. (Ex the DEA agent that shot himself) Well...he CLEARLY needs a refresher course. How tough is it to clear a pistol? #1 Point muzzle in a safe direction #2 Make sure the manual safety is on. #3 Drop the magazine #4 Rack the slide and lock it open while keeping your finger outside the trigger guard #5 Inspect the breech and bolt face for chambered rounds #6 Release the slide How tough is that? If what is being reported is true, Plaxico is a complete {censored} who doesn't have even a novice's level of experience with firearms. By my count, he violated at least 4 of the steps I have listed above. Yeah he obvolusly violated #1 and with pisotls like Glock (I'm assuming this is the TYPE of pistol he had) #2 is not an option, as they don't have manual safties. You'd be stunned how many people don't follow these rules, or become complacent with them. I've seem police officers do it, I personally know 2 who have accidentally shot themselves, one lost a finger, in that very manner...the kicker...they''re BOTH firearms instructors... What often happens is that they often get step 4 and 3 backwards, racking a round into the chamber, THEN dropping the mag. These weapons are able to fire without the mag seated (No Mag release safety). They shoot themselves when they try to release the cocking mechanism, by squeezing the trigger (again the DEA idiot on youtube)
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Post by tog on Nov 30, 2008 8:37:46 GMT -6
The key is do you really need firearms in safe legit places? . nowhere is "safe" and places where firearms are not allowed are giant targets for nutjobs that don't care about the legality of being able to carry there or not
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Post by 19delta on Nov 30, 2008 9:12:10 GMT -6
there's no indication that the 2nd applies to the states (the amendment was targeted at congress, not states, and if nothing else it's an open question), and the scope of the individual right is not as broad as you assume (to paraphrase tog, a well regulated militia and all that stuff) Chris - You are the man and I usually agree with you, but fortunately, SCOTUS does not in this regard. The recent Heller decision affirmed that ownership of firearms IS an individual right.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 30, 2008 9:27:55 GMT -6
If you are a police officer, you can legally carry, you have a reason to. You know how to safely handle a firearm, have reasonable decision making skills and probably wouldnt be drinking heavily etc one would hope. yeah..kind of like that video I posted of the federal law enforcement officer shooting himself in the leg in front of a bunch of kids... Stop parrotting the liberal media, Dave. Concealed carry is on the books in over 30 states and has been for a long time. The VAST majority of people who own a gun legally and have a CC permit do not commit crimes. The vast majority of gun-related crimes are committed either be people who leaglly are not supposed to have guns or with guns that were illegally obtained. In fact, there are MANY studies that suggest more guns = less crime. Criminals want easy victims. If criminals know that a potential victim is armed, that criminal will tend to find easier prey. So you say, but your comments would be highly appreciated by the likes of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein, and Chuck Shumer. How about a Luby's cafeteria during lunchtime? How about a high school? For that matter, why are you so adamant that people can't defend themselves? What is your hangup with that? Do you expect Big Brother to do it for you? Violence can happen ANYWHERE. And again, like has been said by other posters, these guys are TARGETED...bad people know who these guys are and are willing to take what they have away. Americans have a right to defend their lives, their liberty, and their property and should not have to stay at home in a fortress to enjoy the spoils of their labor. I would go as far to say that if more people stood up for themselves and refused to be victims of violent thugs, there would be a lot less violent crime. No arguments there and he certainly needs a refresher course on basic firearms safety.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 9:35:10 GMT -6
Depends, Dave, I carry off duty, though not all the time...which is bad, we're supposed to. Anymore, you never know where you will need to be armed? In cases of self defense, it's better to be and not need it than need it and not be. Also being mobile, isn't always the solution, It's not where you go , it's who's there when you are. I have no problem with the guy carrying a gun, hell as an Eagles fan I have no problem with the guy shooting himself either. (given the injury wasn't serious) The only issues I would have is if he was carrying the gun illegally, which appears to be the case, or the firearm itself was illegal. If you are a police officer, you can legally carry, you have a reason to. You know how to safely handle a firearm, have reasonable decision making skills and probably wouldnt be drinking heavily etc one would hope. I guess your arguement is that we should all be allowed to carry all the time concealed. Wow, Im sure that would make for lots fewers handgun shootings amoung drunken bar patrons, just think of the "dissed" or jealous partner situations. BTW I own 3 firearms, including a pistol and do hunt. The key is do you really need firearms in safe legit places? I just dont frequent places like the one Plax went to that have metal detectors or guards in the front patting people down for firearms. I know places like that, we all do. Thats usually a fairly good indication that the place is one that is prone to violence, not safe etc. ie a place reasonable people dont go. BUT some as you know are attracted to that kind of scene and somehow get off by living on the edge, carring guns etc Even if your not from the hood, ( The Smith Kids dad was a police officer, middle class family etc) There are Tons of places to go that dont draw that type of crowd. He obviously wanted to go in and according to the article shot himself. Seriously, do all night clubs have problems with shootings and people packing? We are all in danger in all places all the time, so we should all be packing ? Come now. From what I understand this guy has a long term pattern of poor decision making, one would think a poor long term investment for most teams even in the NFL. . Here we go...No Dave that's not my argument, your whole statement above is based on assumptions and your own opinions. You dont know why he was carrying, and provided he's not a felon, he's well within his constitutional rights to do so. Now what it sounds like, is he had an expired permit from another state with no reciprocity in New York...I've seen it before. Should we all be packing, all of the time...depends I hate to break the news to you Dave, but the guns are there already, legal and illegal alike, that's what you have to face, unfortunately ..nowhere is truly a safe place.. And if you follow statistics on crime, I assume you do, you know it's not legal gun owners who are reponsible for the majoriy of crimes involving firearms. Until a couple of years ago you thought your kids were safe at school then we had Columbine, then even worse there was Beslan...Mall shootings, make news every couple years. Until 2 days ago you would 've thought you were safe sitting in a hotel room...(in India)....wrong. Perhaps, we could all stay home..that would be great if there were no such thing as home invasions. Here's the real scary part the Beslan attack I mentioned above, was only a dry run for what terrorist cells plan to do here in the states..kids are the target, that's from the horses mouth. If you really want to be disgusted I'll explain the outline for how they plan to do it. Terrorism expers state that there was only 1 thing that could've possibly prevented the murder of over 100 people, mostly kids....armed citizens, to prevent the attack at it's onset. There are people who want to kill you Dave, for any variety of reasons, it could be simply because you are an American. They'll go for your kids, your wife, your home, your friends, whatever they can get. There is nowhere , that violence can't and wont occour, to think that is ignorant.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 9:38:20 GMT -6
The key is do you really need firearms in safe legit places? . nowhere is "safe" and places where firearms are not allowed are giant targets for nutjobs that don't care about the legality of being able to carry there or not My point exactly
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