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Post by Hammer5 on Oct 28, 2008 22:51:46 GMT -6
What could be the next possible "big idea" in football? The wishbone, to run and shoot, spread option, Nascar No-Huddle, and even the A-11 have all been created, but is there anything new, specifically on the offensive side of the ball that will take over in the coming years? I know little tweaks to spread principles are being created to differentiate one spread from another, but are there any new original ideas? I can't see coaches in the late 60's looking at the Wishbone that they teach, wanting to "spread the field" like we do today. I just want to know if there are any new and revolutionary systems that are yet to be fully developed that in 10 years they will be looked at as the spread is seen today.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 29, 2008 5:54:54 GMT -6
dont know about football but nascar might try a right turn in the next decade!!!
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Post by pantherpride91 on Oct 29, 2008 7:23:08 GMT -6
Football is a constant "re-invention" of itself....
Being a flexbone/wishbone offense that considers a good game when we run for 400 yards and pass we love to see these 3-3 teams because you have some serious bfbs (big f'ing bubbles)....To counter that stuff you are already seeing teams go back to the old SW and pound on teams....
Now I dont think we will ever go back to the days of double tight T formations, but i could see the days of teams throwing 40-50 times a game not lasting very long
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Post by Hammer5 on Oct 29, 2008 9:26:51 GMT -6
I was wondering what is going to happen along the lines of how specific coaches like Mike Leach, Rich Rodriguez, or even the late Randy Walker, or even Gus Malzahn are described as having "innovative" offenses. I can see how 10 years ago, no one ran what these guys did, but what would be the next step? Is there any possibility for an "innovative" offense again, or will is be just small adjustments to coaches own base sets?
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Post by lochness on Oct 29, 2008 10:43:49 GMT -6
"Innovations" should be made in finding new and creative ways to develop players, teach fundamental blocking and tackling, etc...not in the X's and O's arena.
THAT would be true "innovation" in my opinion.
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Post by Coach JR on Oct 29, 2008 11:30:39 GMT -6
I think there's a lot to be said for the old saying "It's not the Xs and Os, but the Jimmy's and the Joe's"
I wish I could remember the coach that said it, but in an interview for a magazine a college new in his job was asked (due to him being considered innovative on offense) what defenses gave his offense the most trouble...his reply: "The ones with the best players".
I love reading about and studying schemes, but at the end of the day, the better players/better coached players will usually win.
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Post by coachbw on Oct 29, 2008 14:06:38 GMT -6
I know it isn't an offensive system, but I expect that we will see a lot more of the pass-action run stuff in the next few years. I think that the way it can be built into just about any offense will make it pretty wide spread.
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Post by spreadattack on Oct 29, 2008 14:45:58 GMT -6
I think we'll see more from oline sets, including interesting unbalanced sets, more diversity of line splits, etc. I think all this "spread" stuff with emphasis on affecting defensive structures overall will mutate into a micro game about getting leverage on defensive fronts. I also think this is a natural evolution since defenses (like the 3-3) have gotten less "compressed." Homer Smith wrote a lot of really forward ideas about classifying defenses as "compressed" or "expanded" and I think one of the best ways to take advantage of an expanded defense is to to focus on getting your linemen (plus any tight ends, fullbacks, etc) in position to make good blocks.
But I also think that a lot of that will go relatively unnoticed by the general fan. And apart from that little game-within-the-game, I think we'll see less "true spread" teams and we'll recede into something more "hybrid" and pro-style + gun running stuff until the next big wave comes in. Who knows what that will be.
Any from there, I think lochness is right. And I actually think that we will continue to see advances in teaching, fundamentals, technique, etc. I think the internet really facilitates this too. In the old days you basically taught what you were taught; that worked well enough because if you learned how to teach someone to block from Bear Bryant or Woody Hayes, you probably knew what you were talking about, but that's still a limited pool.
Nowadays there's tons more info, DVDs, books, etc. And it's always survival of the best ideas in this business.
As an example, take Darin Slack's stuff. Got guys on here swearing by R4, which just came out really recently. Guys in disparate parts of the country, using different offenses. And it's all about teaching kids how to succeed.
I know the Xs and Os gets more buzz (including from me, sometimes), but I really do think much of the important growth or "really INNOVATIVE ideas" (to use the A-11 formulation) actually *is* in the form of teaching and technique. Curious to see if others agree/disagree.
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Post by airman on Oct 29, 2008 15:25:19 GMT -6
I think the next big thing will be the return of power football. as defensive players get smaller and more agile to cover the spread offense more and more coaches will turn to power football to take advantage of smaller defensive players.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 29, 2008 15:37:57 GMT -6
I think the next big thing will be the return of power football. as defensive players get smaller and more agile to cover the spread offense more and more coaches will turn to power football to take advantage of smaller defensive players. I agree. Heck, if I was a head coach in our conference, I would run Dub Wing. Everyone else in the conference runs various permutations of the same spread formations and uses similar shotgun running games. The Dub Wing would definietly be something "new" and "innovative".
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Post by coachweigelt on Oct 29, 2008 16:09:37 GMT -6
I have to say Oline formations too inclusing the unbalanced. look at Miami they bring big Long over in their Wildcat and that is just a start...
I will work on such formations in the offseason, but also innovative player development is a good thing as mentioned above!
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 29, 2008 16:23:21 GMT -6
to tangent from what airman and 19delta just said, I think the next big thing for H.S. football is to come to a realization that successful youth tactics (such as the dblwing, single wing, etc...) are probably more beneficial at the H.S level than copying the latest superduper offense from BCS U
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Post by eickst on Oct 29, 2008 17:57:43 GMT -6
to tangent from what airman and 19delta just said, I think the next big thing for H.S. football is to come to a realization that successful youth tactics (such as the dblwing, single wing, etc...) are probably more beneficial at the H.S level than copying the latest superduper offense from BCS U Unfortunately most HS coaches that I speak with look down on us "lowly" youth coaches and our silly outdated offenses and crude defenses. I actually had a coach tell me (about the single wing) that "what you're doing aint complicated, you're just lining em up and running behind them all. That doesn't work at our level." Well, one playoff game later and he says "We just couldn't find a way to stop that wedge play." Good job coach!
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Post by airman on Oct 30, 2008 18:45:39 GMT -6
i personally cannot wait until power football comes back in fashion at the college level as this will trickle down to high school again.
now you might wonder why a guy who throws the all a ton wants this to happen. well defenses will go back to being set up for telephone booth offenses. this benefits the spread which I will continue to run tell the day i die . slower adn bigger defenders play right into my hands. if you take your lbers out and insert dbs you have now taken your best football players off the field. if you leave the in the game we make match up problems.
This is why i always want to be the only spread team in my confrence. the defenses are not set up for the spread then.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 30, 2008 19:05:04 GMT -6
This is why i always want to be the only spread team in my confrence. the defenses are not set up for the spread then. I used to coach at a place like this. It was awesome being the only 4-and5-wide team in a Wing-T and full-bone conference. However, once those other teams went to the spread, the major advantage we had was largely lost.
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Post by morris on Oct 30, 2008 21:53:16 GMT -6
What Leach does is not invotative per say. He is just running the old BYU offense for the most part. I think we will see more single/double wing concepts mixed with spread.
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Post by raiderpirates on Oct 30, 2008 23:21:53 GMT -6
Inverted wingbacks. Huge split the T out and ride a wing back off the G hips like a sniffer. Now the T has better angles to zone lead sweeps, you have huge holes to trap either direction, in or out, with. You can bring motion from interior positions across the formation faster. It converts to a shotgun quickly and from there sets up tunnel screens even better in combination with different motions and shallows off the inverted h backs.
The wing can set up more screens, quicks or release straight up the field on interior play action. You still have four or five inside blockers to convert the wedge and belly.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 31, 2008 0:08:32 GMT -6
Lochness, teaching youth coaches how to teach fundamentals, now that would be innovation. The ones who do, are worth their weight in gold.
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Post by airman on Oct 31, 2008 14:13:35 GMT -6
I am thinking the old Double tight T formation but with 6 to 10 ft splits for the lineman.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 31, 2008 14:19:31 GMT -6
I think the next big thing is the losing 3-67 varsity coach being able to swallow his pride and go spend some time with his 176 -4-1 youth coach and trying to learn something from him. Maybe realizing that high school ball is not college or the nfl and maybe the youth coach who is kicking everyones tail has some good ideas that will work for his kids at the high school level.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 31, 2008 14:54:12 GMT -6
I think the next big thing is the losing 3-67 varsity coach being able to swallow his pride and go spend some time with his 176 -4-1 youth coach and trying to learn something from him. Maybe realizing that high school ball is not college or the nfl and maybe the youth coach who is kicking everyones tail has some good ideas that will work for his kids at the high school level. Is there an echo in here?
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