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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 26, 2008 20:12:24 GMT -6
This will be my 2nd season coaching at my HS and I really enjoy teaching our guys the fundamentals and the nuances of playing football.
The problem is I have real concerns on how our JV program is being run. There isn't any urgency on practice and individual teaching of our players. I believe our jobs as JV coaches is to prepare our kids for the varsity level, and that means teaching and drilling fundamentals and team football.
We don't even have gameplan for our opponent! We run team Off v Def but for some reason our HC seems only be concerned with the amount of plays called as opposed to the quality of the plays called. For example, I urged our HC to run a WR screen we have in our playbook. The O-line totally screwed it up so I wanted to get back on the line and run it again so I could explain everyones responsibilities. We ran it again, and screwed it up the 2nd time, so I wanted to do it again. Midway through walking through everyones responsibilities our HC screams for the Off to get back in the huddle for the next play.
We have an extensive playbook from our varsity but we only seem to run the same 4 plays. our HC has this 5 yds and a cloud of dust mentality while I prefer opening up our playbook more.
Part of the reason our varsity is not doing well now is the lack of preperation on the JV level. I take pride in my coaching abilities and really want to contribute to the program but I have internal difficulties coaching for a HC who has IMO no urgency for coaching up our JV.
One more small example of my coaching frustrations, is after a loss we don't even address our mistakes, so our guys never really know what they did wrong and how to correct it.
I have 1 of 3 options: 1- have a long sit down with the HC and address my concerns, although I don't think he is going to change his philosophy. 2- Ask our varsity HC if I could coach exclusively with the varsity. 3- Leave my post as asst.
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Post by coachjd on Oct 26, 2008 20:45:56 GMT -6
option 3. If you do not agree with whats going on, move on. You answered the question already when you said the HC is not going to change even if you sit down and talk to him.
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 26, 2008 20:53:45 GMT -6
option 3. If you do not agree with whats going on, move on. You answered the question already when you said the HC is not going to change even if you sit down and talk to him. I am really pondering this option, but my concern is not only do I coach at my HS but I also teach so my obligations run a little deeper than just making a coaching decision. It would not sit right with me if I left my coaching post while still teaching at the school knowing I can make a difference with our program and be part of the solution. I think it would be a tuff teaching at one school while coaching another b/c of conflict of interest. It might not be a wise career move if I taught then coached at our rival school for example. |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Oct 26, 2008 20:58:55 GMT -6
Hate to say it, but coachjd said it.
You probably are viewed as the young guy, well probably...because you are.
Work as hard as you can with this guy, show your loyalty, then move on. We've all been there.
There are only two roads, support (loyalty) or non-support.
These are the only two ways.
If you quit...your out.
If you support him and leave...your out.
So, there you have it.
There's been many times I wish I could have waved the magic wand over the "frog" HC and made him a "prince." Doesn't work.
But what you can do is help yourself, work hard, don't be a jerk in front of the kids, learn everything you can, move on and get a good recommendation. Because wherever you go, somebody is gonna' want to know where you've been.
I know it sucks, sorry
OJW
OK, Well while I was typing you posted a reply.
So, then if you don't want to leave, I have another way.
Been there, done this, it works.
Be the Mr. hardworking, enthusiastic, great personality, look like you want to learn everything, willing to do anything, work anywhere, get there early, stay late, do extra-kinda' coach.
If you want to get the head man's attentions, this is how it's done.
However, if you look like Mr. Whiny-pants, won't follow authority, know more than my HC kinda' guy, you will get the Varsity HC's attention but for all the wrong reasons.
I have done this myself, it works.
Moved up the ladder from assitant JV to Varsity HC.
Just stay positive, or you're done.
OJW
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 26, 2008 21:01:02 GMT -6
This will be my 2nd season coaching at my HS and I really enjoy teaching our guys the fundamentals and the nuances of playing football. The problem is I have real concerns on how our JV program is being run. There isn't any urgency on practice and individual teaching of our players. I believe our jobs as JV coaches is to prepare our kids for the varsity level, and that means teaching and drilling fundamentals and team football. We don't even have gameplan for our opponent! We run team Off v Def but for some reason our HC seems only be concerned with the amount of plays called as opposed to the quality of the plays called. For example, I urged our HC to run a WR screen we have in our playbook. The O-line totally screwed it up so I wanted to get back on the line and run it again so I could explain everyones responsibilities. We ran it again, and screwed it up the 2nd time, so I wanted to do it again. Midway through walking through everyones responsibilities our HC screams for the Off to get back in the huddle for the next play. Coach, do you have individual periods? In all honesty, spending 4 or 5 minutes on ONE play in team (if you had a stop watch, that is probably the minimum that was spent on the WR screen situation you were describing) that probably won't be run anyway seems like a waste of time. Team is NOT the place to correct mass screwups if you have individual periods. I can't really form an opinion on much of this without knowing the set up of the program. I DO however know that my first couple of years i "knew" everything....just someting to think about. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 21:35:04 GMT -6
Assistantcoachp, just a couple of things I noticed in your post. Not gameplanning for opponents at the freshmen and JV level is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, you should probably go over what base defense and offense to expect, but some schools run different stuff at the underclass levels anyway. So, the lack of game planning is not a bad thing if you are focused on teaching fundamentals and a more "how to" approach to the game. But, it seems that may be lacking too.
Also, I don't see anything wrong with running only a few plays at the JV level. Have them get good at something (obviously, it probably should be the varsity base plays) and then open up the playbook. I now coach for a program that runs the Wing T so even the varsity doesn't have too many plays, but in two of my previous stops, the varsity had rather extensive offenses. The JV teams were successful while running maybe 1/3 of what the varsity did.
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 26, 2008 21:45:53 GMT -6
coachd5085,
We have Indy time but I doubt blocking the WR was something that was worked on during Indy as it was a new play being introduced to our offense. With that being said, you're right as 5 minutes spent on a play would not be maximizing your time, but I like to stress the little things even if it may not maximize time in certain instances.
Yes, lol, I get your point with your "I knew everything comment". I guess when we start out we're a little wet behind the ears and think we can change the world. I still have the believe that as a coach I have the ability to turn Rudy Ruetigger into Jerry Rice. lol. So much for wishful thinking I guess.
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Post by ocinaz on Oct 26, 2008 22:24:21 GMT -6
Agree with what has already been said...having been an assitant on the JV/Freshman level before, we NEVER were able to gameplan for an upcoming opponent...We had an idea of the base O and D they ran, but that's about it...Talk to him about setting up practice, when introducing a new play, it's usually the HC's idea with staff's input so we are all on the same page for that day..QB's work on the proper footwork, etc...RB's work on what they are supposed to do, WR's the same, OL and so on...Then when it's for group intsall we work on it again, in either inside run or 7 on 7 period depending on if it's a run or pass..Then we run it again in Team Period...We should work out the kinks in indy and group, not in team...Although our varisty at the time ran more plays, we still has them all in out "toolbox", does that mean we ran them all, no way...We picked out of few runs, a few passes, and a couple screens and that was our offense...But again, if you are truly unhappy, then it's your best bet to leave, but you might want to sit down with the HC first and see what he says...Hope some of that ramble helps...
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Post by coachorr on Oct 26, 2008 23:36:15 GMT -6
As an assistant coach, you can speak candidly to the coach in the office away from the kids. If that doesn't meet your expectations, then it is time to move on. "With us or against us".
One great thing about the experience is you are learning how you might improve it when you are the guy, until then, get in line and march to the same drum as everyone else.
Most important, what are you doing that helps the varsity program? Perhaps the varsity HC has asked the JV HC to make sure that the sophmores know how to run those four plays to perfection.
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 27, 2008 7:37:29 GMT -6
Agree with what has already been said...having been an assitant on the JV/Freshman level before, we NEVER were able to gameplan for an upcoming opponent...We had an idea of the base O and D they ran, but that's about it...Talk to him about setting up practice, when introducing a new play, it's usually the HC's idea with staff's input so we are all on the same page for that day..QB's work on the proper footwork, etc...RB's work on what they are supposed to do, WR's the same, OL and so on...Then when it's for group intsall we work on it again, in either inside run or 7 on 7 period depending on if it's a run or pass..Then we run it again in Team Period...We should work out the kinks in indy and group, not in team...Although our varisty at the time ran more plays, we still has them all in out "toolbox", does that mean we ran them all, no way...We picked out of few runs, a few passes, and a couple screens and that was our offense...But again, if you are truly unhappy, then it's your best bet to leave, but you might want to sit down with the HC first and see what he says...Hope some of that ramble helps... ocinaz, we don't even have an idea on a base packages run by the opposing team. We played a wing-t offense earlier this year. It's difficult enough defending a wing-t when you DO prepare for it. Mind you some of our guys have never played before so they couldn't tell you the difference between a wing-t and a run and shoot. As a primary offensive coach on our team I always take game film of last years opponents and breakdown what they do, what they did against us in the past so I can at least prepare our offensive guys to what they'll probably see in the game. Even though this is only my second year I feel I am somewhat responsible for the success or lackthereof on our varsity. As JV coaches we should be really coaching our kids up so the kids can make the easiest transition possible from JV to varsity. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 27, 2008 15:01:04 GMT -6
You nailed it here:
"Even though this is only my second year I feel I am somewhat responsible for the success or lackthereof on our varsity. As JV coaches we should be really coaching our kids up so the kids can make the easiest transition possible from JV to varsity. "
Perhaps you can see if the head varsity guy can sit down with the JV staff after the season and outline the expectations. It sounds like a nightmare and you are on the same track.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Oct 27, 2008 17:04:57 GMT -6
All these posts are excellent.
However, as a head coach, and as a former assistant, we know who the coaches are.
I know who can coach and who can't. If a JV assistant shows some promise, I know it.
I also know that "joe math teacher JV coach guy" isn't doing everything I want. But I may be glad that I have anybody whatsoever over there. Which may be the case here.
assistantcoachp,
If you are woth anything at all, your head coach alread knows about it. AND he will not take the word of your JV HC.
A varsity HC (which by the way doesn't stand for Head Case) is there is win, if he doesn't he's gone to.
He knows that his kids are trained or not, he knows if they can tackle or not, and when he gets them wheather they know where the holes are.
Just because you don't hear the Varsity HC saying anything, doesn't mean that he and his staff don't talk about the JV.
Of course they do,
If you were part of a Varsity staff, which one day you may be, you would know that.
OJW
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Post by midlineqb on Oct 27, 2008 17:22:56 GMT -6
At least the OC of the JV didn't put in 4-6 new plays during pre-game warmup on the field. I was in that situation last year. I was the DC, there was only the 2 of us at the games except when we played at home. We were a small school that only had a staff of 4 coaches. We worked with all the players, varsity and JV, in practice at the same time. The new plays that were put in were not ones we were running at the varsity level. Couldn't convince the guy that execution was not going to very good, even when it wasn't in the game. the HC said he's running the offense. He became the OC for the Varsity this year and I decided I couldn't handle that.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Oct 27, 2008 20:25:49 GMT -6
Our JV offense consists of
FB Trap, ISO, Counter, toss. A few pass plays, and 2 playaction passes. Thats it. We pear down the playbook for them because of 2 reasons..
1) They simply don't get the same number of reps as the varsity kids due to us being a small school.
2) They're still learning the fundamentals..and less thinking..the better off they are at this stage. Running a counter right now for us is still a hit and miss thing...thats our JV version of a trick play ha ha.
My advice is talk to the HC and let him know what your thinking. You then will know where you stand. He's not going to bite your head off..talk to the man!!
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Post by coachorr on Oct 27, 2008 21:00:30 GMT -6
The best lower level (grade level) programs shorten the playbook and extend the indy time.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 27, 2008 21:04:54 GMT -6
Honestly, I don't see any of your options as being professional, nor anything that would be positive for your career.
1) Bringing up your concerns: If he's not going to listen, then this is going to be a problem. He is going to view it negatively.
2) Asking to coach varsity full time: you are abandoning the job you were given. That does not reflect well upon you; you are abandoning the kds you've been coaching all year because things aren't being done your way.
3) Quitting you position: you may be able to write the job down on a resume, but without a reccomendation from the HC, it doesn't mean squat.
Your example pertaining to the WR screen doesn't say anything about poor coaching on anyone's part but your own. Repping a WR screen repeatedly during a team period does nothing but waste time. Especially if this is a play that isn't called much. Fixing the OLs issues is what individual time is for.
Finally, if you want to make it anywhere in coaching, you'd better develop some loyalty.
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 28, 2008 4:50:21 GMT -6
Honestly, I don't see any of your options as being professional, nor anything that would be positive for your career. 1) Bringing up your concerns: If he's not going to listen, then this is going to be a problem. He is going to view it negatively. 2) Asking to coach varsity full time: you are abandoning the job you were given. That does not reflect well upon you; you are abandoning the kds you've been coaching all year because things aren't being done your way. 3) Quitting you position: you may be able to write the job down on a resume, but without a reccomendation from the HC, it doesn't mean squat. Your example pertaining to the WR screen doesn't say anything about poor coaching on anyone's part but your own. Repping a WR screen repeatedly during a team period does nothing but waste time. Especially if this is a play that isn't called much. Fixing the OLs issues is what individual time is for. Finally, if you want to make it anywhere in coaching, you'd better develop some loyalty. Thanks for you response but I don't totally agree with your points. Being loyal doesn't mean staying in a situation which is not productive or fun. I got into coaching at my school to develop our kids talents, make football fun for them. I do have loyalty, but part of having a great coaching staff is to have coaches who are mostly on the same page. The WR example IMO was something that needed to be addressed b/c it was a new play we introduced from the playbook they only ran it once before in practice, and it wasn't repped in Indys. secondly, I believe it needs to be repped in team as well. Maybe not so much but if guy it does need to be seen by lineman with a live defense in front of em. Your other points are valid and thats what I am dealing with internally. |
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 28, 2008 5:29:35 GMT -6
I should say being loyal is not ENTIRELY about.....
I do believe that traits of loyalty are staying on board in not so perfect situations and standing in the rain w/o an umbrella and working hard with your fellow colleagues until you turn the ship. But if we don't see our kids progressing I take responsibility and if there is not proper coaching and teaching on our part then why are we doing it?
coachd5085 made a nice comment about "knowing everything", which eluded to the notion that 1st time coaches think they know everything and can change the world. I know I'm a little wet behind the ears but I'm not convinced that just b/c kids are on JV they dont have the brain compacity to know only 4-5 plays.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 28, 2008 5:45:32 GMT -6
I will say this. There is no such thing as a perfect Coach so you had better get used to supporting the header in HIS VISION of things and forget about your own until you are top dawg.
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 28, 2008 7:04:39 GMT -6
I will say this. There is no such thing as a perfect Coach so you had better get used to supporting the header in HIS VISION of things and forget about your own until you are top dawg. touchdownmaker, that seems to be the sentiment amongst the others who've contributed to this discussion. With that being said, I will truly make an effort to support the HC and learn as much as I can about coaching including not only x's and o's but how to work with different personalities, and philosophies. As it is right now, I wouldn't even know what to do if I was the HC, so I better stop thinking I know all the answers. It's always easy to criticize when you're in the background. Thanks guys for all of your thoughts, and stories. |
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Post by btincup on Oct 28, 2008 12:47:41 GMT -6
This year has been tough for me as I also took an assistant coaches position for the first time in 5 years.
PRIDE seemed to be the biggest factor on both sides. I know this is a football coaches board and sensitivity and the like are probably inappropriate in this environment.
However, I actually spoke with my wife about this same issue. I know, I know it is a direct violation of everything football but I was at my wits end.
She told me to not judge him "until I had walked a mile in his moccasins" . I sweetened up climbed right up his rear and I'm getting everything I wanted.
What I learned was that once the HC realized I wasn't after his job or trying to make him look ineffective he opened up and we started to work together. Little compromises at a time.
Oh man it hurt me to even write this down it sounds so panzy but I thought it might help you. This sensitivity stuff is worse then trying to defend the A11.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 28, 2008 16:42:56 GMT -6
I will say this. There is no such thing as a perfect Coach so you had better get used to supporting the header in HIS VISION of things and forget about your own until you are top dawg. Exactly. If you can't support the head coach, it's time to go. That's why I won't be coaching at the same place next year. |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 28, 2008 18:47:08 GMT -6
Honestly, I don't see any of your options as being professional, nor anything that would be positive for your career. 1) Bringing up your concerns: If he's not going to listen, then this is going to be a problem. He is going to view it negatively. 2) Asking to coach varsity full time: you are abandoning the job you were given. That does not reflect well upon you; you are abandoning the kds you've been coaching all year because things aren't being done your way. 3) Quitting you position: you may be able to write the job down on a resume, but without a reccomendation from the HC, it doesn't mean squat. Your example pertaining to the WR screen doesn't say anything about poor coaching on anyone's part but your own. Repping a WR screen repeatedly during a team period does nothing but waste time. Especially if this is a play that isn't called much. Fixing the OLs issues is what individual time is for. Finally, if you want to make it anywhere in coaching, you'd better develop some loyalty. Thanks for you response but I don't totally agree with your points. Being loyal doesn't mean staying in a situation which is not productive or fun. I got into coaching at my school to develop our kids talents, make football fun for them. I do have loyalty, but part of having a great coaching staff is to have coaches who are mostly on the same page. The WR example IMO was something that needed to be addressed b/c it was a new play we introduced from the playbook they only ran it once before in practice, and it wasn't repped in Indys. secondly, I believe it needs to be repped in team as well. Maybe not so much but if guy it does need to be seen by lineman with a live defense in front of em. Your other points are valid and thats what I am dealing with internally. The best advice I can give you is this; do the job that you have been hired to do the best you can without causing a ruckus. Speak your piece, politely, when it's appropriate; behind closed doors and preferably early in the week. And when I say speak your piece, I mean DO IT ONCE. If he doesn't take your advice, then so be it, don't harp on it. At the end of the year, if you're still feeling the same way, put in your letter of resignation. If you've left without causing any issues, you'll be much better off in looking for other jobs. |
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 28, 2008 21:43:10 GMT -6
coachcb, thanks for your response. I will continue the rest of the season with the understanding that one day I will get an opportunity to be more involved with the overall impact of the team, but until then I will play the role I was given, be supportive of our HC, continue to develop our players and be a team player. As the old saying goes, "There's way too many chiefs and not enough Indians" (no disrespect to any Indians. lol)
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mce86
Junior Member
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Post by mce86 on Oct 29, 2008 10:00:02 GMT -6
Sounds like you need to rep more stuff in INDY for your team segments. By the time you get to team, the play should be in. During Team is NOT the time to stop the play...ever. (depends on your philosophy I suppose)
Did your guys get it right in INDY? Thats your job....not to stop the team segment to make corrections. That is a no-no on most levels....you need to coach on the run and move on...if it doesnt improve the next day, then its not ready to be put in!
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 29, 2008 10:36:24 GMT -6
Hey one other option
spread lies and rumors and try to get the HC fired while touting yourself as the second coming of lombardi!!!
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Post by coachcb on Oct 29, 2008 10:48:07 GMT -6
coachcb, thanks for your response. I will continue the rest of the season with the understanding that one day I will get an opportunity to be more involved with the overall impact of the team, but until then I will play the role I was given, be supportive of our HC, continue to develop our players and be a team player. As the old saying goes, "There's way too many chiefs and not enough Indians" (no disrespect to any Indians. lol) I know where you are coming from; even if my original post didn't exactly imply that fact. ;D One of my first jobs was coaching on a freshman football staff that had some serious issues. Once again, too many Chiefs, not enough Braves.. At first, I took it upon myself to insert myself as a Chief; didn't work out so well. I injected my opinions in as professionally as I could and then was told to keep my trap shut. After a few weeks of this, I resigned myself to being a Brave; do my job as best as I knew how and go with the flow. Get along with the rest of the staff and focus on the kids. By the end of the season, I found out that I was viewed as somewhat of a quitter. Because I had started out the season being reasonably vocal, but had finished being more reserved (although pleasant), some of the guys on the staff thought I was "pouting". |
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