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Post by btincup on Oct 6, 2008 13:12:29 GMT -6
This is a tough one guys.
I've been a head coach for about 7 years and done well. This year I took a position as offensive coordinator for a local High School. I took the job because they have not been doing so well over the last few years and I thought I could make a difference.
My first red flag came when we started the season with no coaches meetings and no plan. I asserted myself and tried to install some structure which the head coach then changed on the fly.
An example of some of the things he does:
We practice the spread and Pro I formation for 4 weeks and then the Monday before a game he tells me to install and option package and informs me thats all I can run.
He runs the 3-5-3 and then never blitzes "to risky he says".
Tells the kids to make their reads on D and then never shows them there reads.
NO tackling drills during practice because the kids might get hurt.
I'm at my wits end. I want to walk but I hate to leave the kids. Now the parents are talking about removing him and want me to head coach but I see this as a big show down and it looks like it will get ugly.
Not sure what I should do ?
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Post by dubber on Oct 6, 2008 17:03:43 GMT -6
1. Talk to him
2. Support him
3. Get the heck out of there after season
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 6, 2008 18:19:10 GMT -6
1. Talk to him 2. Support him 3. Get the heck out of there after season DITTO |
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Post by superpower on Oct 6, 2008 21:20:13 GMT -6
This is a tough one guys. I've been a head coach for about 7 years and done well. This year I took a position as offensive coordinator for a local High School. I took the job because they have not been doing so well over the last few years and I thought I could make a difference. My first red flag came when we started the season with no coaches meetings and no plan. I asserted myself and tried to install some structure which the head coach then changed on the fly. An example of some of the things he does: We practice the spread and Pro I formation for 4 weeks and then the Monday before a game he tells me to install and option package and informs me thats all I can run. He runs the 3-5-3 and then never blitzes "to risky he says". Tells the kids to make their reads on D and then never shows them there reads. NO tackling drills during practice because the kids might get hurt. I'm at my wits end. I want to walk but I hate to leave the kids. Now the parents are talking about removing him and want me to head coach but I see this as a big show down and it looks like it will get ugly. Not sure what I should do ? While it is clearly a difficult position that you find yourself in, didn't you ask some questions about how things were done when you interviewed? I hope you didn't accept the job blindly. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 6, 2008 21:50:38 GMT -6
Try not to say the "F" word in front of the kids, I think that is good advice as well.
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Post by amikell on Oct 6, 2008 21:53:45 GMT -6
Try not to say the "F" word in front of the kids, I think that is good advice as well. funny, but true threads like this make me wonder how bad I was to work for when I was an HC. |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Oct 7, 2008 0:21:42 GMT -6
Understand where you are coming from btincup.
Several years ago I was asked to join a staff at a new school. I didn't want to be the head coach although asked to apply several times-(I'm sorry I didn't)
The man they named to be head coach, looked like a coach, sounded like a coach, even knew some catch phrases that made him sound right.
But just like you, I realized something was wrong from my first meeting. I should have cut and run at that moment, but I didn't realize how bad or dumb this guy actually was.
He got the position by telling about his experiences that didn't turn out to be true at all. He actually had NO experience.
It was bad, he didn't know anything about football outside what someone who played a little bit and watched TV.
It was bad.
I decided to stay and actually run every aspect of the program, offense, defense, special teams.
Again, I wished later, a 1000 times that I would have cut and run.
I had people begging me not to leave though, and I felt bad for the kids, knowing that I would leave them with a half-wit who actually was had emotional problems.
It didn't take long from them to get rid of him when they saw the error of their ways.
I'm glad I stayed for the kids,
but I'm sorry I stayed for myself.
I don't think you can talk to an idiot.
An idiot THINKS they know something and they don't.
He isn't going to listen to you because you are a threat to him, he knows he lied to get the job, or at least misled people.
He knows you know what you are doing, so you are stuck in a love/hate cycle.
Either run away, which no one will do, or sit there and eat a year of crap, and move on.
If they get rid of him, they may put you in charge, you never know.
But forget talking sense into that guy, it'll never happen.
Oh, yeah, I see alot of posts that say "support the guy", from my personal experience with a complete moron, is that he will NOT treat you right. He will totally hate you no matter what, and when you get the job, he will hate you even more.
He knows he is full of crap, and doesn't know what he is doing.
From my personal experience, this guy is going to lie on you no matter what you do.
So, do the best you can, is he isn't fired, than move on.
If you want the job, hang around, but don't think that this guy is doing to do anything but drag your name in the mud, make stuff up, lie, cheat, whatever...since that's how he got the job to begin with.
But that's just my opinion and I'm just an old coach.
OJW
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Post by raiderpirates on Oct 7, 2008 1:09:15 GMT -6
Put the best face on this you can. Find out what he does agree upon, and emphasize those things twice over.
When in doubt, bail out. Get a safe distance away with safe cover and leave the situation in the coming year.
Good luck in the meantime. Hope your kids do well and stay injury free. They and you will learn more about life than about football from this season, from the sounds of it.
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Post by splitricky5 on Oct 7, 2008 6:33:36 GMT -6
I was in the same situation two years ago. I had a head coach who was completely unapproachable, distrustful, and refused to comply with any request by anybody. Terrible situation. Community members, for whatever reason, got it in their head that I should be the head coach. I kept my mouth shut and kept working hard, but the head coach would not let it go. Continuosly making comments about how I was trying to take his job, etc. I prayed hard about it, harder than I have ever prayed about anything. I ended up contacting a coaching legend from the area, told him I wanted to work hard and didn't care about credit or anything like that. I just wanted to coach football without all this other crap. I end up getting hired by the guy. The idiot head coach I was working for was there one more year before he was asked to resign.
Point is, I know what you are going through. Keep doing all that you can to coach up the boys in your charge. Focus on yourself and try to ignore the noise from the head man. I won't tell you to be supportive, but at the same time make sure you don't do anything to show that you are anything less than a top notch assistant coach. When I left that program, I walked out saying that I was the best assistant coach they ever had. I truly believe that I was because I worked hard every day. I had to challenge myself that way, or I would have walked out on coaching completely.
Stay strong and focus on yourself. That'd be my advice.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 7, 2008 6:55:30 GMT -6
Going through a tough year here and in somewhat of a similiar situation, but with an OC not HC. Our HC is out this year for medical purposes. Our Interim HC is our DC and feels powerless to do anything about the situation, because the program is not "his" Our OC refuses to make adjustments or changes in our offense to help our kids out. It is very frustrating to me as OL coach when all he says when we suggest adjustments is "if we dont block better it doesnt matter what we do" When last week our RB ran 18 times for 110 yds and would have had 150 yds if a phantom block in the back had not been called. We have also given up only 1 sack in the past two weeks, and that was b.c. the RB blew his protection. Just really frustrating. I am planning on leaving at the end of the year if he comes back. However, for now I will stick it out for my 5 kids at OL that are still giving it everything they have even though we are 1-6.
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Post by assistantcoachp on Oct 7, 2008 8:45:00 GMT -6
It's so funny hearing the "war stories". LOL. Let me now add my current story. I got involved with my school's JV team to help out with the Q's, WR's, RB's, just basically anything the team needed.
Since there's only a couple of other coaches on the team I have been able to express my offensive knowledge to the team but the HC IMO is not a good x's and o's guy. He or she is a great person, and a great motivator for the kids, but when it comes to calling a game this person is completely clueless. very unimaginative on offense and in practice doesn't teach players HOW to play their respective position. they're the type of coach that runs 10 bad reps as opposed to 3 perfect reps. I've asked this person to open up the offense and start throwing more but we haven't done it to this point.
I would get into specifics but I won't for fear he or she (lol) will stumble upon this thread later on in life. lol.
I want to stay and teach the kids the game of football and teach them the right way, I also like the extra little coaching money in my paycheck, but i dont know if i can stick around not being able to run the offense.
Like i said, this person is a great kinda Knute Rockne, win one for the gipper type of coach but he's not an x's and o's or position coach.
I would very much enjoy if I had complete autonomy of the O and he leaves his win one for the gipper speeches for gameday.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 7, 2008 9:07:08 GMT -6
I agree completely with OJW with this one; suck it up for a year and then get the heck out of there.
Several years ago, I took a job against my own better judgment. I had heard all summer long how the program was going to struggle, that the HC/OC wasn't qualified and had issues with not only members of the staff, but teachers in the school...
After the first meeting, I knew I was in trouble.. I made one sound suggestion: having some PA schemes off of our base runs. The staff agreed with me, the HC/OC took it as some sort of personal challenge to his authority. He shot a nasty look at me, told me that we were keeping things "simple" and basically told the staff to keep their traps shut.
After that, I focused on doing my job, coaching the positions I was responsible for, and keeping my mouth shut.. The season didn't go well, as you can imagine. The HC/OC spent the whole season throwing the staff under the bus; even to the point of making stuff up. Because I kept my mouth shut (as was ordered), I "quit on the kids". Everyone on the staff's reputation was trashed; we had a complete turnover on staff the next year.
At that point I made a decision; I was going to do one of two things in coaching. Take on a HC role at any level, so that no one else could try and hold me accountable for their incompetence. If I messed things up, it was on me. OR, get involved with a solid staff that knew their stuff and acted professionally.
Either way, I was only going to put in the time, effort, and energy in a situation where no one else could negate it with their idiocy.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 7, 2008 9:10:36 GMT -6
Real dawg, when people say things like, "The snap count doesn't matter, we just need to FIRE off and get someone" or "Our line just better be able to go one for one" or "We would be better if we could just block someone"...... Needs to ask themselves if coaching football is really for them. It is my opinion that an OC can be of tremendous help to the Oline, through scheme and philosophy. The coach who doesn't understand this is an IDIOT. I was in a situation a couple of years ago where we were running a scheme that I didn't agree with and slowly we switched to an I scheme (with some angle blocking principles) and we really began to have some success. We went 2-6 on the last season I was there, got in the playoffs on a fluke and beat a 7-1 team and lost to the would be state champions by 2 points. All that time, people were saying that someone else needed to be the head coach, namely me (which was so far off base you can't even imagine). I just wanted to be the line coach and that is all I have ever wanted. The last season I was there (the one I was talkind about) the HC/OC was great. He listened to me, made some of the adjustments I wanted to make and we worked great together. But, I think there was the thought, that I was trying to undermine. Anyway, he brought in a new OC, someone who had won two state titles at the 2A level (really a nice guy), but in his first meeting that spring, he said, "I review film and find the weak guy and we just pick on him". "The oline is the most important position, and I expect them to be able to get the man in front of them and go one for one, if he can't do that, then I will replaice". Well, those two comments right there in combination with the hidden feelings in the community led me to believe it would be best to move on. That and the fact that I got a job making more money closer to home. The good part of that story is, both of those guys are still good friends and we have a tremendous amount of respect for eachother. I was most happy to preserve the relationships. I returned to my Alma Mater, teaching at a Junior High, which all of the kids go to the big rival school and coaching there. It was more of the same. The DC was great, but to the HC I was just another shirt-filler. This year, I decided to take the 9th grade job where I work and it has been pretty good. We are always undersized and outmanned, but we are 3-3 right now. Ironicall, I have been spending a lot of time at the what was "rival school" to my Alma Mater in the off season. I did this, so that I could learn their system and install it here so the kids would be a step ahead of the game. What is ironic about it, is I think I like being the head coach, because it is the only place where my suggestions are heard.  If there were another situation, where I could work in concert with an OC, I would love to be an Oline coach again, but for now this has been good. OJW, great post and to the point. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 7, 2008 9:13:35 GMT -6
CoachCb, this is very good advice, thanks.
"At that point I made a decision; I was going to do one of two things in coaching. Take on a HC role at any level, so that no one else could try and hold me accountable for their incompetence. If I messed things up, it was on me. OR, get involved with a solid staff that knew their stuff and acted professionally. "
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Post by coachcb on Oct 7, 2008 9:36:34 GMT -6
CoachCb, this is very good advice, thanks. "At that point I made a decision; I was going to do one of two things in coaching. Take on a HC role at any level, so that no one else could try and hold me accountable for their incompetence. If I messed things up, it was on me. OR, get involved with a solid staff that knew their stuff and acted professionally. " You're welcome. This philosophy has taken me to the best position I have ever been in. The staff is full of great coaches, and more importantly, great guys. The program is very successful, winning is great, but what's more important is the manner in which the staff deals with losses. They solve problems; dealing with things as professionals and they don't point fingers. I got in argument over this philosophy with a former colleague of mine several months ago. I won't get into the details, but I finally asked him the following question: "Why would you want to put in all the time and energy into to a program as an assistant and have it basically over-ridden by people around you who don't have the same passion, professionalism and commitment you do?" His answer was : "Because I want to be a part of the development of a program, I don't want to 'ride the wave' of an established program." My response: "Go get a HC job then; you'll get to your goal faster." |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 7, 2008 9:57:10 GMT -6
In mormon country, the end of that interview would have been, "I heard you were a great guy and a knowledgable coach, I just wanted to see if you would drink".
If you get the job then good, if you don't then you would know why. Usually after the fact. It is kind of an interesting environment here in Idaho.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 10:27:19 GMT -6
This is a tough one guys. I've been a head coach for about 7 years and done well. This year I took a position as offensive coordinator for a local High School. I took the job because they have not been doing so well over the last few years and I thought I could make a difference. My first red flag came when we started the season with no coaches meetings and no plan. I asserted myself and tried to install some structure which the head coach then changed on the fly. An example of some of the things he does: We practice the spread and Pro I formation for 4 weeks and then the Monday before a game he tells me to install and option package and informs me thats all I can run. He runs the 3-5-3 and then never blitzes "to risky he says". Tells the kids to make their reads on D and then never shows them there reads. NO tackling drills during practice because the kids might get hurt. I'm at my wits end. I want to walk but I hate to leave the kids. Now the parents are talking about removing him and want me to head coach but I see this as a big show down and it looks like it will get ugly. Not sure what I should do ? Coach I'm in a similar situation, except the other coach is a maniac...i agree if you can tolerate it, stay, if not go , but let them know why. I'm actually handing in my resignation this evening. |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 7, 2008 11:26:23 GMT -6
Here is the best analogy I can come up with: If you are qualified to run a department in a bank, would you rather work for a bank that is run by a CEO with an MBA, or one with a GED?? I got news for you; a bank run by someone with a GED isn't going to make it far, even with a 700 billion dollar bail out. |
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Post by cmow5 on Oct 7, 2008 23:29:59 GMT -6
Heres an example of what I have jad to deal with this year with the "HC".
This happened at practice today. I am the frosh DC and the "HC" is the OC. All we do is run team for two hours. Today as we sent our guys to get a drink I was looking over at the other practice field that the Varsity was using. They where running some indy drills working on footwork, technique type of drills. My "HC" says " Thats why the are not winning games because they spend to much time on that sh%$". Yes, I have a HC that dont believe in footwork, technique, fundamentals, ETC....... I walked away shaking my head and thought about this post.
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 7, 2008 23:54:24 GMT -6
Heres an example of what I have jad to deal with this year with the "HC". This happened at practice today. I am the frosh DC and the "HC" is the OC. All we do is run team for two hours. Today as we sent our guys to get a drink I was looking over at the other practice field that the Varsity was using. They where running some indy drills working on footwork, technique type of drills. My "HC" says " Thats why the are not winning games because they spend to much time on that sh%$". Yes, I have a HC that dont believe in footwork, technique, fundamentals, ETC....... I walked away shaking my head and thought about this post. If the frosh HC believes that then the varsity has little choice but to run fundy and indy a bunch because they got so little of it early there's plenty of catching up to do. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 7, 2008 23:54:29 GMT -6
We started the season 1 and 3 and we are now 3 and 3 and I attribute it to spending time on indy drills.
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Post by cmow5 on Oct 8, 2008 0:01:55 GMT -6
Heres an example of what I have jad to deal with this year with the "HC". This happened at practice today. I am the frosh DC and the "HC" is the OC. All we do is run team for two hours. Today as we sent our guys to get a drink I was looking over at the other practice field that the Varsity was using. They where running some indy drills working on footwork, technique type of drills. My "HC" says " Thats why the are not winning games because they spend to much time on that sh%$". Yes, I have a HC that dont believe in footwork, technique, fundamentals, ETC....... I walked away shaking my head and thought about this post. If the frosh HC believes that then the varsity has little choice but to run fundy and indy a bunch because they got so little of it early there's plenty of catching up to do. Totally agree! I tried to run some stuff early this year and he did not back me at all he was saying during the drills"Thats not a drill". There is a lot more of this stuff going on but you get the idea. I love coaching football and this school, but this will be my first and last year at this school if something is not done this offseason. BTW the varsity runs team everyday too. |
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Post by carson101 on Oct 8, 2008 3:33:44 GMT -6
The dude must of read coaching for dummies and stayed wth the dummy part,coach sometimes coaches/people are just stuck on stupid. If you get a chance to take over by all means do it.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 8, 2008 7:04:22 GMT -6
I know coachorr. One of our problems is that we are a spread team. B/c of injury and other issues we have a very slow footed 10th grader at QB. This basically eliminates half of our running game, and his arm isnt strong either. We are an zone team, so basically all we are left with is zone and dart. Two weeks ago I suggested we run some double gun and put in some iso and some ctr. trade. (which we already had in just with QB running). This idea was shot down b.c. we "didnt have anyone else to put back there" This past week I suggested we put in sort of a "wild hog" package with a WR taking the snaps. This was shot down b/c "we dont have time to learn it" I am thinking what is it going to hurt to try? We are not very good at 1-5 and have only scored 54 points all year. Why not try a new wrinkle? Of course some off this is pure frustration on my part b/c in the previous 7 years we have avg. about 9 wins a year. (same oc by the way). Just dont understand why he is so oppossed to change now.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 8, 2008 9:18:30 GMT -6
One thing I did to help our situation was to go Off set I and T (Two fullbacks and a Half back) and align the Q in a pistol alignment. This allowed us to run three plays very well and it was like Hog. We run Lead, Speed (Really a Zone Option as we are blocking the EMOL and pitching off the Corner as we have a Fullback leading on the flat defender), and Speed trap coming back (Fake speed action and give it to the Fullback coming back against the grain.
This has allowed us to have better control of the run game when we are struggling with Jet sweep, zone read and regular traps. When they overplay the offset fullback, I just add another Fullback in a T, with the Half back deep. Sometimes we will even shift the other fullback to one side and now have what I call "Robust", some may be familiar with it. It seems teams still play us like we are spread, yet we pound the football.
Back to the point I was going to make. The important thing, is you are there for the kids and in the end, that is all that matters. I am sorry you are going through this situation right now, but I believe that since your heart is in the right place, you will find success.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 8, 2008 9:49:33 GMT -6
Cut bait and leave after the season.
As OJW stated- can't reason w/ and idiot...
For you and for him- don't ever be on a staff and not support the coach 100%. Someone's gotta go...
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Post by btincup on Oct 9, 2008 14:31:59 GMT -6
Great stuff guys thanks.
He cornered me upon our return to practice on Monday and as you all predicted tried to get me to quit. I told him that I'm not quitting on the kids you will have to fire me. I think if he would have done that he would of had some big problems with parents and AD.
I'm going to stick out the season and do what I can. He claims I'm bad mouthing him by correcting the kids. It's very difficult to watch him instruct the kids incorrectly. I'm not talking about grey areas but very basic things.
It's been my biggest challenge since becoming a football coach. I hope I can make it through the season.
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sin86
Sophomore Member
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Post by sin86 on Oct 11, 2008 22:28:17 GMT -6
Great stuff guys thanks. He cornered me upon our return to practice on Monday and as you all predicted tried to get me to quit. I told him that I'm not quitting on the kids you will have to fire me. I think if he would have done that he would of had some big problems with parents and AD. I'm going to stick out the season and do what I can. He claims I'm bad mouthing him by correcting the kids. It's very difficult to watch him instruct the kids incorrectly. I'm not talking about grey areas but very basic things. It's been my biggest challenge since becoming a football coach. I hope I can make it through the season. Smart move. I am in a very similar situation and have already decided to give up coaching football if nothing changes next year not willing to relocate my family and I have not drawn a supplement in years so nothing lost. This guy practices team for three straight hours, no tackling circuit, no individual work, and no group work. I was having lineman work on first steps, do bird dog drills, and shouder skills (Wing-T) and he said we didn't have time to waste on that. Corrected the receivers and what the receivers coach had taught them and had them start putting the inside leg back. Told lineman to just hit the guy in front of them and wonders why the Wing-T won't go. Season over and I'm done. |
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Post by schultbear74 on Oct 12, 2008 0:03:15 GMT -6
Worked for a guy like that. Didn't work for him the next year.
Was teaching proper technique and he told me I was wrong. Problem is I was right and everybody in the room knew it. They couldn't believe it.
The next year I coached 7th and 8th graders the right way. Had a blast. He kept his job for a while because he had talent. Talent is gone and he is in trouble.
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