splitbacks
Probationary Member
OL/DL coach
Posts: 10
|
Post by splitbacks on Oct 6, 2008 7:26:21 GMT -6
I am not a fan of leaving my starters in against another teams reserves in order to score asthetic points. Last Friday we were beating a team 37-14, with 1:55 to go, we empty the bench while our opponent leaves the regulars in and they score twice to make the final 37-27. It APPEARS as if it was a close game, but I don't like to score those gimme points. What do you guys think
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Oct 6, 2008 7:40:25 GMT -6
Unless you are a D1 coordinator that needs a head job, I wouldn't worry about it. Do what is best for your team. the other coach probably thought that was what his team needed
|
|
|
Post by pantherpride91 on Oct 6, 2008 8:59:40 GMT -6
To me, a win is a win. We had the same situation a couple weeks ago where a coach left his starters in to the very end. We had emptied our bench and had d-linemen playing linebacker and even one out at corner. We were in the mode of just getting the kids in the game. The 2s are the hardest working and most beat on kids, so we get them on the field as much as possible.
Now, in the paper it looks like the opposing team was in it, but who cares. We know, and more importantly, our kids know the effort we put into the game. Most importantly we got all our kids on the field.
|
|
|
Post by airraider on Oct 6, 2008 9:10:59 GMT -6
sometimes in blowouts your two's are equal to their one's..
|
|
mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 218
|
Post by mc140 on Oct 6, 2008 11:25:33 GMT -6
Freshmen Defensive coach perspective:
It is my belief that you get the reserves into the game the minute the game is no longer in doubt. In fact if we are in control of a game, but it is still in doubt, I will get some reserves in who had a great week of practice in for a few plays while the two way guys get a break. The only way these kids learn is by being in game situations and while a lot of them will not do a good job, some of them end up proving they can be relied upon. Plus at the lower levels it helps keep kids out. Undoubtedly a handful of the second and thrid teamers as Freshmen will grow and be able to contribute as varisty players. If I had wanted to, my defense could of had three shutouts this year, instead we only had one. All that really matters is the record.
Another plus is the chirping of "why aren't we playing?" has quieted substantially. One game we were up 30-0 in the 4th when I put the second team in, the other team left their first team in and ran right through them three times, only to have the clock run out on the third drive. We won the game 36-14 and the second team guys got to see what it was like to play against better players in game. THere was also film now of the things these kids were doing wrong.
|
|
splitbacks
Probationary Member
OL/DL coach
Posts: 10
|
Post by splitbacks on Oct 6, 2008 12:26:01 GMT -6
I guess my issue is that, if I were getting blasted, and the blaster decided to put his reserves in, I would too. I could not stand the fact that I scored more than half of my points on someone's young kids. I guess it's just my values, I would rather be honorable in defeat than take some sissy points at the end
|
|
mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 218
|
Post by mc140 on Oct 6, 2008 19:39:58 GMT -6
Someone sounds angry.
|
|
|
Post by superpower on Oct 6, 2008 21:16:47 GMT -6
Our starters work so hard all off-season and at practices all week long preparing for Friday night. They deserve the opportunity it play at least three quarters, so I am not in favor of pulling them early.
|
|
|
Post by goldenbear76 on Oct 7, 2008 2:24:01 GMT -6
When we're whipping up an opponent pretty good, we'll pull our offense off, and put in the JV kids, but leave the defense in and slowly replace guys on defense. We won't wholesale change on defense. Our DC definitely loves to keep shutouts heh.
|
|
splitbacks
Probationary Member
OL/DL coach
Posts: 10
|
Post by splitbacks on Oct 7, 2008 4:59:29 GMT -6
Holy cow dcohio, relax dude.
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 7, 2008 5:58:54 GMT -6
Sweet post dc ;D
|
|
|
Post by njlopez on Oct 7, 2008 7:39:44 GMT -6
We have run into this problem of being on the losing end almost every week. When the other team pulls their starters we leave ours in on offense. We do most of our subbing on defense. When we start moving the ball or score, I feel that the other coach gets upset. I can say is that I rather be on their end, not ours.
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Oct 7, 2008 8:31:11 GMT -6
First, I am going to sub for my varsity defense AFTER you put in your JV offense, I garuntee it. 2nd, my first wave of subs will be for the seniors, the underclassmen starters will remain on the field for a while and I am going to play what I think will be my defense next year together.
I am going to call the game just like I would if it was 0-0, we are not coming out of any auto-blitzes we may have installed..and I am going to coach my players both praise and rip just like the score is 0-0.
I will do the same thing except we will play the base and have the kids work reads, drops etc. I ripped a senior when a receiver got behind him i cover 4. we were up by 30+
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 7, 2008 8:46:40 GMT -6
I'm an offensive guy, and have been on the short end of the whooping stick many times, but I think if we sub and they don't then that's our problem.
Bottom line is that it's our team's job to stop them/make the play-
If we're down, but we're cramming 9 guys in the box, why should we get mad at the other team for throwing the ball? It's what they do to adjust to 9 in the box! This happened to us yesterday in a JV game- we were down by 8, other team just iced the game by getting a first down...We're blitzing everyone and stuff their first down play, so they come back and throw the ball (incomplete), but everyone was biatching about them throwing the ball...what do you expect them to do? Stand there and get it rammed up their a$$?
|
|
|
Post by pantherpride91 on Oct 7, 2008 9:21:41 GMT -6
One of the things that might change when you sub and who you sub is how many kids you have on the team.....
This year we have 27 kids on the team and do not play a JV schedule....Therefore as soon as we feel the game is in good hands we will start to sub. For us, some starters are going to play the whole game out of neccessity. We are not going to put a 280 pound freshmen in there at QB just so he can get some playing time.
So, for some of our kids they may only see a few quarters of actual game time during the whole year. We sub less out of letting up on the opposition and more on rewarding the kids who are tacjling dummies all year and stand on the sidelines during the game.
Now, if we had a JV and Freshmen team, I would be more along the line of thought as DC. Once you start to bring you starters out I will start building my defense for next year. However, you have a game plan and I want to see if every kid can execute it. It also gives you a good indicator of which kids are really into the game, practice, and football itself. The 2nd and 3rd stringers who go out there and perform the game plan like the starters are ones I can count on if a kid goes down or next year. However, if a kid goes out there and screws everything up and has no clue what it is going we find his butt on the pine.
|
|
|
Post by lochness on Oct 7, 2008 10:00:06 GMT -6
My philosophy on this is very simple:
If we are on the receiving end of a blow-out, we sub when they sub and we understand the game to be out of reach. We don't want to wear our 1st team down or risk getting someone hurt in a hopeless situation. We'd rather look at our other players and reward our back-ups for all their hard work. Also, we don't want the reputation of being a team that pads stats and puts up points in this manner.
Like someone said, everyone does what they think they need to do for the betterment of their program. This is what we feel we need to do. I'm sure it differes for other people.
Now, it's a completely different story if the game isn't out of reach and the other coaching staff decides to sub. We had a game a few weeks ago where our opponent called it Miller Time in the 3rd quarter with the game 19-0. We quickly scored on their backups to make it 19-7, and we scored again on the next drive (renewed sense of confidence) to make it 19-14 against their firsts, who they had sent back in. We came up just short of scoring one last TD with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter.
|
|
|
Post by joelee on Oct 7, 2008 10:30:01 GMT -6
My philosophy is I'll coach my team and you coach yours. You need not get angry over the fact that you want to control another guys substitution patterns.
|
|
|
Post by coachsky on Oct 7, 2008 13:50:38 GMT -6
We certainly don't base our sub pattern on the other team.
If we know it's going to get out of hand early we start feathering in guys to work with our varisty at 28-0. Once we hit 42-0 we shut it down
There was a guy in the our area last week who beat a team 83-0. Most people are distgusted. He had his starter in throwing td's midway through the 3rd Qtr.
|
|
|
Post by coachlu on Oct 7, 2008 17:12:35 GMT -6
When we're whipping up an opponent pretty good, we'll pull our offense off, and put in the JV kids, but leave the defense in and slowly replace guys on defense. We won't wholesale change on defense. Our DC definitely loves to keep shutouts heh. we've actually put staters back in to preserve shutouts. We wholesale on offense and also slowly replace starters on defense.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Oct 7, 2008 19:13:50 GMT -6
I can't stand the whole "unwritten rules" thing that some coaches expect you to adhere to. We were getting our butts kicked 35-7 a few weeks ago. Other team put their backups in and we left our starters in. We actually competed fairly well against their backups. Well, the coaches on the other side started bitching and moaning about us leaving our starters in...some crap about "hey, our backups are all in now, Coach"...
Really pissed me off...it was obvious that our kids couldn't compete with their first-teamers...we were outmatched. We simply wanted to end the game with something positive, so we could maybe build on something for the next week.
I just hate that crap...you want to pull your starters, that's fine. But don't expect me to pull mine.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2008 5:28:50 GMT -6
It is obviously a very complex issue. The only thing I know with 100% is that I absolutely abhor the practice of putting the starters back in to preserve a shutout (UNLESS...there is some type of point differential system used somewhere in your district). I can't stand games within games. Success is a horrible teacher, and failure is a great one. Let the backups fail in a non-practice situation...
As far as the other situations...very tough. As an impartial observer, I think the most logical and productive course of action is to have subs vs subs. However, how does this relate to the kids/coaches who preach a "NEVER GIVE UP" message? How does that work?
Very complex issue.
|
|