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Post by cqmiller on Sept 25, 2008 9:40:40 GMT -6
Hey guys... I'm looking for some help. This is our second year at a very small school (Lowest Division in CA, dress less than 25 on varsity). Our staff is really struggling with frustration over the entire situation here.
A little history... The school is only 10 years old, and has NEVER had a winning season. The 3 years before our staff came their record was 3-27, which included a 49-0 loss where the other team used and ineligible player so they got the win by forfeit. The coach before we got here didn't collect equipment or jerseys, and the program was in shambles. When we asked the best returning players what offense and defense they ran, he responded with, "I don't know, on defense we had one guy in the back... and on offense we ran it a lot."
Last year we got organized, ordered new home uniforms, made sure everyone had at least heard of our offense and defense 100 times (4-3 and spread), and thought we had made huge strides toward getting the program out of the cellar. We went 2-8, with 2 games that we should have won, but the ball just bounced the wrong way on one, and we wore down against a much bigger school in the other one. So we were competitive in at least 4 of our games. We still got waxed by the big boys, but we doubled the amount of points scored from the year before, and cut down on points allowed by 1/2.
One of the issues we are really struggling with, is the complete lack of motivation/desire/work ethic from the kids. Our entire staff played and/or coached at the college level, and are there every single day ready to work hard. But we only have 25 kids on the entire varsity team, and yesterday we have our 2 starting WR's miss offensive practice (one so he could get a haircut, and the other to get a massage). Also, our backup QB didn't show because he didn't feel like it...
I have always been a guy who felt like, "F%#% 'em, they don't play if they miss practice!", but we only have 3 WR's on the team. If we don't play the 2 WR's, then we have nobody to put out there...
As a staff we are getting extremely frustrated because we feel like we are being held hostage by our own kids. There is a core of about 6 who are there everyday and are really trying to do the right things, but then there are the rest who are "fairweather-kids"... As long as they don't have to do anything hard, and we are tied or winning on the scoreboard, they are fine, but as soon as we face some challenge, they fold and quit.
Anyone been in a situation like this? And if so, what suggestions do you have for a fairly young staff (HC/OC=41, DC/LB/RB=25, DL/OL=24, DB/WR=24) as far as keeping a positive mentality and being able to believe that the corner will turn (eventually)?
Thanks
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 25, 2008 10:11:59 GMT -6
Coach- you play without those kids period. If they take issue with you collect thier crap- send a clear message through the entire program that we will not tolerate this type of behavior and if you choose to make those kind of choices then we move on without you. What's the worst that is going to happen? You'll lose another game which is already happening- sometimes building something great means tearing down something which was not worth keeping. Continue to coach the crap out of those kids who want to be there and flush the others- you can suffer through a tough season now and move forward or suffer through 2, 3 or more seasons and either burn out or get fired.
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Post by bulldogoption on Sept 25, 2008 10:29:24 GMT -6
Football is a unique sport in that when a team gets its a$$ kicked, the kids literally get their a$$ kicked physically. Its tough to get them to put forth effort when they know they will be physically beaten down. There are many motivational methods to try, but it sure does get tiring having to motivate all the time. I would suggest that all programs are different and punishments for your kids aren't necessarily what kids in other programs might get. i.e. Some may say if a kid misses practice they are off the team. Well, it is hard for you to say that because soon you won't have a team. What we tried was implementing an offseason rewards program, similar to what many programs have. My INTENTION was to drive a wedge between the workers and nonworkers AND their parents. I wanted to truly know if the kids would all start working or if they would dig in their heels and basically say, "the work we've put in in the past is going to be good enough." That basicaly happened this year, many kids dug in their heels (year 4). Some of the kids who did NOTHING have fallen away and made excuses. Unfortunately, as you know, you need numbers for success, but you need success for numbers. Chicken or egg............. I wanted to know just for my own sanity, whether the program, was ready to put in the time. It looks right now as if they aren't, and I have seen the hand writing on the wall so to speak. Talk is cheap. In the short term, I try to remember, I could be stuck behind a desk somewhere instead of able to go out and be around football.  |
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 25, 2008 11:29:47 GMT -6
CQ can tell by reading your many posts that you guys are on the right track. as far as keeping positive, there is an old saying... fake it until you can make it. IMO you must have this attitude with your assistants too. You have to play the hand you are dealt. I'm not in favor of big changes, but maybe you can run some double tight stuff and sit the guys out the first 1/2. this could send a message (not a massage). I am always wary of benching kids for the whole game. To me it punishes the whole team. I guess at some point if the same kids makes the same mistake then he is done. IMO, each kid is treated individually. Believe it or not we actually had a kid miss a portion of practice last year to get a sports massage for continued leg cramping. he actually got two massages, he said they hurt like h!ll. you know what, he never cramped again. great kid ,hard worker.. never missed practice before... he started
Believe..Believe... believe.... I am a daily Kool Aid drinker
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Post by dubber on Sept 25, 2008 11:30:59 GMT -6
CQ-
I honestly think you need to cut the kids loose. Attitude is the first thing you need to change, otherwise, it will always be the same. Play the back-up OG at WR, who cares? Get the attitude changed, and eventually eveything will start going your way.
Now, I understand that is easy for me to say, because I am not in your situation. It is easier to tell someone the right thing to do than it is to actually do it.
AT LEAST, however, you need make an example of those kids. YOu have expectations, and when they are not met, there are consequences. PERIOD.
my 2 cents.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Sept 25, 2008 12:06:18 GMT -6
NEVER compramise. What you permit is what you promote & what you tolerate is what you encourage.
Treat negative events as possibilities for future growth. Promote a positive environment that encourages responsibility, accountability and reliability.
-Start a captains council or leadership board. Give these kids responsibility for taking attendance (peer pressure) and leading team discipline as consequences (one fails we all fail). Anyone who misses (unexcused) must verbally tell the team why they missed (team accountability). Our kids see through the nonsense and realize who we can count on real fast.
-Start with the smallest things - lining up when a coachs says, in the way the coach says, as soon as the coach says. Running between drills, hustling etc. Do the TNT's take no talents better than anyone else first. Take pride in what you are doing.
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 25, 2008 12:21:24 GMT -6
I hear ya. I don't really have any advice other than if you can see light at the end of the tunnel go for it.
I have been at "that" school before. Spent five years trying to fix a losing culture that did not want to be fixed. So I hear ya man. When the inmates are running the asylum its tough.
I have some of that in the program I am in now. But we are doing everything we can to destroy that old attitude and replace it with a new one.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 25, 2008 12:24:09 GMT -6
If it were me, those two would be sitting on the bench for the game; I would pull freshman up if I had to.
Everyone wants to give their program the best chance to succeed on Friday night, but that kind of attitude cannot be tolerated. It spreads like a cancer throughout a program and it does so fast.
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Post by justryn2 on Sept 25, 2008 12:26:12 GMT -6
To me, it a question of whether you're trying to build a program or trying to win the next game. If all you want to do is win the next game then look the other way when anyone screws up or screws around; don't even take attendance at practice and hope that you get an early lead and keep it.
On the other hand, if you want to build a program, bench anyone with even one unexcused absence from practice and "fire" anyone that has two. Insist on total dedication and 100% effort. Will you loose some starters? No doubt. You will probably have several games where less talented players play while better athletes watch from the bench (or from the stands). But, I firmly believe that those players who share your views of this game and the commitment it requires will step up and your program will be better because of it.
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Post by midlineqb on Sept 25, 2008 15:05:12 GMT -6
I say bench those 2. Make examples out of them. Use underclassmen. If they don't like being benched they may quit and you'll be better off in the long run. Just hang in there and work on the attitudes of the players.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 25, 2008 15:31:10 GMT -6
4 years ago, one of the WORST programs in the state (at any level) was taken over by a solid staff. This program had 10 wins in 10 years; definitely a handful to take over.
They laid out the expectations for the kids; off season training, in season work ethics, academics, etc... They stuck to their guns with the kids; those that met the expectations played, those that didn't work, didn't play. The upper classmen that didn't make make football a priority were eventually shown the door and the underclassmen were giving a lot of varsity playing time.
They struggled for those first few years, but everyone in the state could see that the attitude was changing. This year, they already have 2 wins and will probably make the playoffs. If they keep playing the way they have been, they will be looking at 5 wins. Those underclassmen that earned the right to play are now juniors and seniors and they are a competitive crew. They played us tough the first game (we're #2 in the state); we beat them solidly, but they came to play.
Now, I'm not saying that you should run off the upper classmen when first taking over a program. But, if you are treating them with respect,coaching them well, giving them a shot, and they are still causing problems, I'd show them the door.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 25, 2008 15:32:13 GMT -6
One of them is already a freshman... haha.
I agree totally with all of what is being said. Just got some ammo to bring with me when I plead my case to the HC. I think we should just run the ball 50 times and move forward... thanks guys.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 26, 2008 6:31:02 GMT -6
Sometimes you have to shoot a few hostages...
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200 
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Post by juice10 on Sept 26, 2008 12:28:25 GMT -6
I am currently in "that" program right now, 10 wins in the last 10 years (2-69) in conference in the last 10 years. I took over this program 4 years ago, and many of the issues being described in previous posts I went through.
We are currently 4-0 and our first conference win in 6 years was last week. Not saying that things are tremendous here, but we have finally starting "turning the corner" and those kids that started with our new staff as freshman are now seniors and are doing a tremendous job of leading and doing the things we are preaching.
My advice, which seems to have worked or us (so far), is stick to your beliefs and stick to what you what your program to be known for. Our staff took over with a goal and a future tradition in mind, and as hard as it was the first few years to get our a$$es kicked game in and game out, we had to stick to our philosophies and goals for the future. Their is light at the end of the tunnel if you can work hard on your underclassmen. We stressed alot with the younger classes, not saying we didn't try hard with the Juniors and Seniors, but we new that this turnaround was not going to happen overnight.
Hang in there, and keep doing your job. Coach them up and be as positive as you can be. Make the little things important, and make sure they know they are important.
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Post by jhanawa on Sept 26, 2008 22:59:30 GMT -6
I'd bench their butts and put in two OT's at TE's and just run it, then make the entire team pay for each point scored against.....when applied correctly, peer pressure still works....our "day after loss" practices have a way of weeding out the uncommitted and will uniting the survivors....
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Post by jpdaley25 on Sept 30, 2008 9:24:19 GMT -6
Been there. In my situation I had about 20 players total, and if I kicked one off , I knew others would quit and I wouldnt have a team, and then I wouldn't have a job. I wouldn't go that route. You have to change their attitudes and that's not easy. We made an attendance policy - Excused absence - make up conditioning. Unexcused absence - two hours of running - and we used peer pressure against them saying to the whole group "look, its not fair that Timmy didn't have to do anything yesterday while the rest of you ran for two hours at practice. He has to make that up so everything is fair." Each year thereafter we tightened up the attendance policy until it became what it's supposed to be - if your're breathing, your're there. We also based all privledges on attendance, not on seniority. I don't care if you're a senior or not, son, you want to be the game captain, earn it by doing everything your supposed to do. Make them earn everything. And when the people get made because you have a sophomore and a freshman going out for the coin toss, whip out your attendance sheet and say they earned it, your kid didn't. If you want your kid out there, here's what he has to do to earn it. Youv'e only got three WR's, which one earned the most playing time this week. Play him - even if it costs you the game. In my opinion, changing the kids attitudes has to be top priority, because your not going to win many with kids who don't come to practice anyway. Hope this helps.
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Post by raiderpirates on Sept 30, 2008 13:10:31 GMT -6
Go jumbo unbalanced, replace a skipping WR with an OL who shows up.
Run y shallow, dual choice, and mesh a ton.
Make sure your best pass catch TE gets tagged or set with the most chances to run a post/corner opposite the Y, run the next closest player on the LOS a dig every time. That way your worst receiver of the three usually stays with the same route, minus his own route tag or working opposite Y.
If Y sees people chase the opposite TE he knows it's man and he runs to open grass. If he sees them sit back he settles. Replace the DE's feet, then any LB who blitzes. Don't look for the ball until you replace the hot or get to the point you'll clear the opposite tackle's pass window.
Run dual choice instead of dual slants with as TE out at wing over the unbalanced side. Use that as a give and go action for a running Qb or slash player. The choice action should come open to the one every time off man coverage(almost matches the dual slant route), to the two returning off zone, back out to one on the way outside for a running QB or slash/sweep man.
Dual choice can also convert to a smash off a quick Te or interior pass catcher. It can be used as a drive concept to a quick back also.
Use the T eligible in the red zone after convincing them he's a blocker. Take a block setback step then run to the space between their DB and LB when you run an offset back to the flat to widen the underneath coverage.
Motion the H or Y that way(Y if they zone, H if they man) and let him run a post to hold the other safety. Now that OL should have a spot to come open between them or run to open grass on a short safe throw.
An unbalanced also is a wonderful chance to run a throwback to your QB off shotgun or a sweep handoff. Run unbalanced, force the overload, then sneak the QB up your sideline off that faking a bootleg(make sure you show the D you don;t have the ball, instead of holding the end with deception show him empty hands so he thinks about stopping the run).
If the QB is a great athlete find ways to make him the extra WR, otherwise use your quickest back.
The ones who love the game and show up, they're a resource to make the most of. There are no problems, only opportunities....
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Post by coachdawhip on Oct 2, 2008 21:29:11 GMT -6
Coach cqmiller, same boat. If you are going to lose anyway, why not bench them?
I have been doing that a lot this season. You have to change the attitude of the program and really mean it when you say if 11 show up then 11 will play.
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Post by btincup on Oct 3, 2008 12:03:58 GMT -6
Let their teammates handle them. They foul up entire team pays the price. Up downs, running etc.....
Their teammates will fix them.
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Post by coachhernandez on Oct 4, 2008 0:26:48 GMT -6
I've seen this at every level of unpaid football. The fact of the matter is that your kids are not committed, and possibly don't even care that much for football. So what happens if you bench or cut a player that doesn't care about football? nothing!
I took a different route, I tried to figure what would motivate a kid that is on a team, but doesn't really care about the program. I thought back to when I was in school and what was most important to me, and came to the conclusion that at any point in my schooling, grades were a big factor. So what I did was I met with all the players that were missing practice, and told them that they would not be cut, but would not play until they improved their involvement in this "class". I told them that being on the team was just like being in a classroom... if they do not get involved, I would just fail them, just like any other teacher would if you missed that class too many times. Unfortunately there is no true answer to your dilema, but I hope this feedback helps.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 4, 2008 0:55:12 GMT -6
I thought you were going to say that you were independently wealthy and you gave kids signing bonuses for showing up.
Good one about the classroom correlation, I like it.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 4, 2008 1:03:29 GMT -6
I have followed very closely the suggestions and the advice given by DCOhio, bulldogoption and Coach5085 and it did wonders for me.
Take roll don't play kids who don't come. Family emergency would be one exception.
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turney
Junior Member
Spread'em and Shread'em[F4:coachturney]
Posts: 279
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Post by turney on Oct 5, 2008 7:08:23 GMT -6
I went through the exacte same thing last year. My rule is miss 1 practice dont start miss 2 dont play. We had almost the entire practice miss a practice one week and I had to start 10 kids that game. It sucked but I have had only legit absences for sickness this year.
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