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Post by coachev on Aug 30, 2008 13:33:20 GMT -6
We are having debate amongst our staff of how much to hitting to do during the week. I am in favor of doing mostly 'thud' where it is live on the line & and we hit the ball carriers, but we do not bring them down. We must wrap up completely to stop the ball carrier. This means not going for the legs. Part of my reasoning for this is that we have 21 players, just enough to go both sides of the ball in practice. We cannot afford any injuries. Plus, I believe it teaches our players to bring their legs when they tackle. We tell them to play to the whistle so the tackler will not let go until the whistle nor will the ball carrier stop running until the whistle. Two good habits are reinforced at once.
Now if we had 40 kids, I wouldnt give a crap! But I think our numbers forces us to practice this way. hat are some of your thought on this?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 17:50:17 GMT -6
Depending on how often you practice once or twice a week is fine, thud the rest of the time is perfect. We only hit 1 night per week, sometimes we don't at all.
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Post by liberalhater on Aug 30, 2008 21:46:23 GMT -6
if you believe that football is safer than soccer, than hitting should not be a problem in practice. All the old coaching axioms reinforce live hitting in practice.
you play in games like you practice.
you get what you emphasize.
practice makes perfect.
repetition repetition
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Post by coachcoyote on Aug 30, 2008 22:33:32 GMT -6
Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
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Post by liberalhater on Aug 31, 2008 4:54:35 GMT -6
in either case it supports the view that you get what you practice.
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Post by phantom on Aug 31, 2008 8:22:58 GMT -6
Offensively we're thud on the backs and the QB wears a red shirt. God help anybody who hits the QB. Defensively theoretically we're live but we have a very quick whistle.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 2, 2008 7:37:27 GMT -6
Thud to me, is everyone live, just not tackling to the ground. No hitting the Q.
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Post by coachsky on Sept 2, 2008 8:03:52 GMT -6
We go a pretty aggressive Thud every day. No tackling below the waist. We encourage very aggressive play, but we tell them they are athletes that can learn how to aggressively without banging each other up.
Our seconds know their job, and we want our seconds to try and kick our first tails! They know they can't hit low. It's pretty simple.
Now that it's game week. we shorten our aggressive Thud sessions in team. We are backing off overall hitting about 25% from Camp to game week. If we feel like we are not being aggressive enough in games we can roll out some sessions to get them refocused on toughness.
This years defensive group had a very nasty disposition at Spring Camp. We are counting on it carrying over this fall. It's hard to get a true sense of that scrimmaging yourself. We'll know on Friday.
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Post by coachveer on Sept 2, 2008 8:04:58 GMT -6
At some point during the week we want to crank it up and go live for 5 to 10 minutes this includes tackling the backs and excludes the QB (red vest). Most weeks this occurs during a 4 play 1st a goal from the 5 goaline period.
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Post by phantom on Sept 2, 2008 8:08:42 GMT -6
I read an article not long ago- I wish I could remember where- that dealt in part with tackling in practice. The coach said that there are two kinds of tackles in practice and they teach their kids to deal with each differently.
The first was the head-on tackle. If the tackler can see the runner's numbers he can have at it. Unless you go low on the legs or lower your head you're not going to hurt anybody with a head-on tackle so go for it.
A profile tackle, though, is when the tackler approaches from the side. They teach their guys that in practice if they can't see the runner's numbers to hold up. Break down and grab on but don't follow through with a full speed tackle. This is where people get hurt. That makes sense to me and that's what we try to get our guys to do in practice.
Let me emphasize that this is for practice. In games you do what you have to do.
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Post by coachev on Sept 2, 2008 11:42:56 GMT -6
It was always my intepretation that "Thud" is live blocking. Theoretically, I believe Thud can enhance my team's tackling ability. I am teaching them that the ball carrier will keep running to the whistle so if someone tries to wrap him up just using arms, the ball carrier should be able to run through that tackle. If a tackler hits and engages the ball carrier correctly and there is a mutual leg drive I will blow the play dead. It can teach my players to always bring their legs with a tackle and to get their head in front of the ball carrier. The point is to avoid the ankle sprains and knee injuries that occur when kids start going for the legs. Thoughts?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2008 12:11:48 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there for anyone interested... but a friend of mine centered his masters thesis on concussions...teams that went live/full after week 6 in practice had a 700% higher incident rate of concussions in games than teams that lightened up. The human body is not meant to take that kind of repeated impact, much less the skeletal frame of a 17 year old.
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 2, 2008 12:26:14 GMT -6
That is very interesting.
We are in season now and go live but have quick whistles. I believe you have to go hard and hit but at the same time it does us (or anybody else) no good to lose a good player in practice.
I also think it depends on the team and the "culture of football" at the school. For example when I coached at a 4A powerhouse it seemed like we never tore it up in practice once the season started. But come Friday night we had no worries about our guys hitting. With older experienced players you get them some pops and they are good. Younger kids need to hit every single day.
I also like the point phantom makes about the profile vs head-up tackles in practice. We might try teaching that.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 2, 2008 13:41:12 GMT -6
For me, it depends on the unit.
If I have a unit that's aggressive, takes good angles and tackles well (i.e. soaks up what I'm teaching during tackle drills), then we tend to tend to go "thud". However, I want that first contact to be hard and I want to see that they're wrapping up.
If we have a unit that's having trouble tackling well (even with all of the drills) and playing aggressively, then we go full speed with a quick whistle. IMO these units need more time under fire, so that they become comfortable with hitting and moving. If we don't go full speed with these units, then we're going to be spending WAY to much time in tackling drills. Kind of a compromise for us.
The biggest issue I have with "thud" is the fact that the kids don't learn to drive their feet after contact; they hit and the pull up. 50% of making a proper tackle is driving your feet and taking the runner back.
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Post by coachsky on Sept 2, 2008 14:36:16 GMT -6
Just throwing this out there for anyone interested... but a friend of mine centered his masters thesis on concussions...teams that went live/full after week 6 in practice had a 700% higher incident rate of concussions in games than teams that lightened up. The human body is not meant to take that kind of repeated impact, much less the skeletal frame of a 17 year old. As I said earlier we go aggressive Thud daily. We have had up to six kids out on "concussion watch". Most of the claims of headaches and concussion are: 1. Our number 2's that have to scrimmage our 1's. 2. They are linebackers, DB's, and running backs. 3. All but one of the incidents reported contact with our FB/MLB who's friggin hoss. (218lbs, Bench 350, Squat 450, 4.65 40yd) We watch the way the FB is hitting and he's not using his helmet he simply rocks people, especially kids that try and put a thud on him when he's carrying the ball. We also wonder if theses guys are a little "camp weary". Pretty easy to go to the trainer and say you have a headache and feel woozy. We are ordering our Impact Software so we have a tool to measure concussions. We are in game week and have backed off the hitting and go really quick THUD. Our kids are edgy to hit some different color, I hope that plays out this Friday night. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2008 15:40:53 GMT -6
the impact software is GREAT...just be forewarned that it has shown kids to be below baseline 2 and 3 weeks after a Dr's clearance (ie...generally the protocols team docs and trainers use is VERY far behind the curve)
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Post by dubber on Sept 2, 2008 16:02:14 GMT -6
Where is coachjerk when you need an asinine comment?  |
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Post by airman on Sept 2, 2008 16:25:38 GMT -6
one of the great things about throwing the ball is you can go full speed all the time. the oline and deline can go full speed on pass protection.
being a passing team we do not get the soft tissue injuries which the smash mouth teams get.
we actually have our qb learn how to take hits during preseason. we use a hit jump pit and blocking sheild.
we also talk full speed into high jump pits all season long. .
I also believe in number 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2
I think you hurt your team by having them go against number 2.
our number 1 offense goes vs our number 1 defense full speed. we get game speed.
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