|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Aug 25, 2008 8:54:19 GMT -6
I know the NFL and NCAA have moved to ban this form of tackle. Should high schools do the same?
Much was made about the Roy Williams tackle on Terrel Owens, and this directly lead to the new penalty. Rules such as this are put in place for safety reason.
My questions are: is this a necessary rule? Is this type of tackle as dangerous as a clip or spearing? Did the hype surrounding the William-Owens tackle and the fact that it took place leading up to the Eagles Super Bowl run have an affect on the adoption of this rule?
Using observations I have had, I maybe see one/two tackles like this per week of practice & games at the most. I haven't ever seen someone get hurt. Just curious because I don't see the big deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Aug 25, 2008 9:15:19 GMT -6
I feel the same way about many of the QB rules as well... I played QB in HS and College and think that the $$$ at the NFL level has led to some rules that shouldn't be around. Expecting a DE/DT/LB/DB to stop and think about "can I tackle him this way" when it is full-speed FOOTBALL is ridiculous. People are going to get hurt. It's tackle football. If you want to eliminate the chances for injury, then play flag...
Now that I'm a DC, I just tell my players to get them down by any means necessary that doesn't involve the head or facemask. If I get a couple of penalties for grabbing the man with the ball from behind (who would have scored a TD anyway)... I can live with that. At least we get another chance to stop them. Same thing with accidental contact on the QB... I never get mad at my DL if they are going full speed and get a roughing call or accidentally get a facemask (would be 5yds in NCAA or NFL) because they are going full speed. I can live with hustle penalties, but I hate stupid penalties.
|
|
|
|
Post by morris on Aug 25, 2008 9:53:56 GMT -6
I do not allow our players to do it in practice. I am not taking the risk. Our defense has hurt 2 players using it this year. I know one team in state that at least at one point was taught to do it as part of their pass defense and they hurt a number of kids. It is not hard for a player to figureout how to horse collar for "max" effect.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yash on Aug 25, 2008 10:42:11 GMT -6
I wish they'd make a rule against it because it really is a dangerous tackle. I think that when you grab the collar like that and throw the legs through your intentions are to inflict injury. Yes its an effective way to get a guy to the ground but its a pretty effective way of breaking ankles as well. I know football is a contact sport and people get injured but the horse collar tackle is a pretty dangerous thing. I'm all for a rule on not allowing it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2008 20:17:18 GMT -6
Coach, it wasn't that the Williams-Owens tackle sparked it, it was that Williams hurt 4-5 other players the same way, Owens was just one of the worst. Don't get me started on Roy Williams (Eagles fan)....
It should be banned, it can cause horrible injuries to the lower extremities, and is INTENDED to injure the player getting tackled. That's why you never see him do it to some 3rd string receiver. And he still does it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2008 20:19:58 GMT -6
I wish they'd make a rule against it because it really is a dangerous tackle. I think that when you grab the collar like that and throw the legs through your intentions are to inflict injury. Yes its an effective way to get a guy to the ground but its a pretty effective way of breaking ankles as well. I know football is a contact sport and people get injured but the horse collar tackle is a pretty dangerous thing. I'm all for a rule on not allowing it. Coach, I'm right there with ya. I've never seen an injury caused by a facemask, but that's illegal, but I've seen planety of rolled ankles due to the horse collar |
|
|
|
Post by coachbb on Aug 26, 2008 17:21:42 GMT -6
This might need to be moved to the Rules section, but here's my beef with the horse-collar rule in the NCAA and UIL. If your runner is soft and goes down easy, then the new NCAA horse-collar rule will reward him if a defender just grabs in the general area and immediately stops him. If you have a tough, fight for extra yards guy running the ball, then the horse-collar rule doesn't apply. So the rule basically can reward backs who immediately stop when someone touches them from behind.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yash on Aug 26, 2008 19:50:40 GMT -6
I think that if you grab the inside of the shoulder pads (not just the shoulder pad area, but inside the shoulder pads like Roy Williams always did) you are blantatly trying to injure someone. People get hurt in football and yes guys try to hurt them, but I'm not against rules that are made to make a violent game safer. There are plenty of ways to tackle a player without using the horse collar tackle.
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldogoption on Aug 27, 2008 20:42:05 GMT -6
I think it is dangerous. Had a kid snap a bone in his lower leg during practice by getting horse-collared.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenbear76 on Aug 27, 2008 23:58:01 GMT -6
You know i don't think its a problem in High School football. I've never seen a horsecollar with an intent to injure in HS football. Usually it happens when a team is running sideline to sideline, and the defender is slightly behind the ball carrier. What happens is a kid is diving to tackle the ball carrier and is looking to grab whatever. I saw one of our kids make a tackle like this last year..there was no intent to injure..it was just a kid trying to make a play. Should it be a penalty? I don't know. Like was said above...i'd rather have my kid making the effort to bring the ball carrier down, then to just give up because he can't form tackle.
|
|
|
|
Post by morris on Aug 28, 2008 7:18:00 GMT -6
I'm with CQ on this one. Penalties can't award touchdowns. I am the first to tell our guys pull the rec down before you give up a TD if your beat. If a kid can reach and grab the inside neck portion of the shoulder pads he can grab jersey or even dive to tackle from behind. I think when most people refer to the "horse collar" The defender is much close. The defender grabs th einside neck portion of the shoulder pads, jerks back and swing his (tackler) legs/knees down on the back part of the ball carrier. This is what we see when we see a horse collar tackle. This is what Roy Williams did/does. It is when the legs get twisted up on each other there is the big issue. The tackler tends to come down full force on the ankle to lower leg area. I honestly do not have much a problem with it if the defender keeps his legs away from the ball carrier. In that case I do not think it is that bad. When they get the legs in there then it is just as bad if not worse than tripping and leg whipping. |
|
|
|
Post by major2222 on Aug 30, 2008 4:31:51 GMT -6
2 years ago our best player got horse collared and shattered his leg. 3 fractures and a dislocated ankle. This kid was going to be a D1 track star.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingt74 on Aug 30, 2008 16:01:00 GMT -6
isn't that how Bo Jackson got hurt?
Should be banned. I already teach against it
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 17:00:35 GMT -6
I'm with CQ on this one. Penalties can't award touchdowns. I am the first to tell our guys pull the rec down before you give up a TD if your beat. If a kid can reach and grab the inside neck portion of the shoulder pads he can grab jersey or even dive to tackle from behind. I think when most people refer to the "horse collar" The defender is much close. The defender grabs th einside neck portion of the shoulder pads, jerks back and swing his (tackler) legs/knees down on the back part of the ball carrier. This is what we see when we see a horse collar tackle. This is what Roy Williams did/does. It is when the legs get twisted up on each other there is the big issue. The tackler tends to come down full force on the ankle to lower leg area. I honestly do not have much a problem with it if the defender keeps his legs away from the ball carrier. In that case I do not think it is that bad. When they get the legs in there then it is just as bad if not worse than tripping and leg whipping. I can agree somehwhat coach, if you are only using it to slow up a ballcarrier to get a better position, then in theory it's not a horse collar "tackle". Truthfully, at that point it's not even that dangerous, It's not being used to bring a runner down per 'se. I used to teaach that as a prelude to a strip, but we were told ANY hand inside the collar will be a penalty. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 17:28:56 GMT -6
Hey, IMO the horse collar tackle wouldn't even be an issue if the league hadn't implemented the "unprotected receiver" rule. Receivers didn't act like a bunch of loud mouth babies back in the day. Matter of fact, I hope one day to have enough time in heaven to put TO & Chad Johnson on the same field with the Jack Tatum Raiders. Heck I still can't comprehend why offensive and defensive linemen never get called for helmet to helmet contact. Why linebackers and RBs never get called for helmet to helmet collisions but let a defender put his facemask anywhere near the QB's helmet and he's a cheapshot artist and it was unnecessary. How in the heck can you NOT lead with your head...it's above the chest and shoulders...that's what we hit and tackle with. ...all the rule changes...that's one of the reasons I watch college football not NFL. NCAA fan myself coach, but I'd take Johson and Owens, and the overs on that game any day coach...Hey dont get me wrong, , I'm a fan of the old days too, but those guys, couldn't compete against the athetes of today, they were killers in their time, but the NFL wasn't what it is today But to be honest, I really don't beleive all those rules went into effect, because receivers were whining. It has alot to do with money, teams are protecting their investments. This is a different NFL now, since 1990 how many serious, career ending injuries have we seen, I'd venture to say quite a few, a fractured neck was an almost unheard of event, even with animals like Hamm, Tatum, Lambert, and Butkus, how many of those have we seen, in the past few years, 5 or 6 (NCAA and NFL). Now is that because the athletes aren't as tough as the old players were?....absolutely not, the competition is light years ahead of what it used to be. And Roy Williams is still a scumbag |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 17:30:19 GMT -6
isn't that how Bo Jackson got hurt? Should be banned. I already teach against it good job coach, |
|
