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Post by CVBears on Aug 8, 2008 11:03:59 GMT -6
we don't share at all during football season. It is for football only. Soccer uses the stadium in the spring when football is not going on
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2008 11:33:56 GMT -6
As you might tell, I am frustrated with our field arrangement. We have our own stadium, but little free space otherwise. Soccer and field hockey not only get to play games on our field, they are now complaining about equal practice use. There are already two games per week min, and now they want off days to be shared. Our idiot AD actually thinks this is fair. He put together a rotating schedule that has us using the field once in the first 3 weeks of season (when games start). Wouldn't be so bad if we had a practice area, but he also wants us to use the worst area on campus as our regular practice field. basically, it is 30 yards wide (the genius decided to let baseball put all kinds of fences in the normal practice area). It also has a few "drainage grates" and is marked with potholes. Oh, it is also about 1000 yards from the stadium, which would make sled use a nightmare. I guess field hockey--which has scored one goal in two years--is really bringing in a ton of money at the gate. I could write 4 pages about this guy (I could care less if he happened to read this)--How do people like this keep their jobs? (End 0f rant) Why do you feel entitled to dictate the terms of facility usage? Sounds to me that the AD is doing the best he can with a bad situation. He has three different athletic programs that need practice space but he doesn't have space for all three teams at the same time. What you described is quite commonplace during the basketball season around here when schools have anywhere from 6-8 basketball teams that need to get in a practice but the school only has one contest gym. It is what it is...you do the best you can and that usually means compromising with other coaches. With all due respect, you kind of sound like a spoiled kid who is being forced to share his toys with his younger brothers and sisters. The schedule may not be what YOU wanted, but it sounds like it is fair. The guy is, after all, the ATHLETIC director, not the FOOTBALL director. And, to be perfectly honest, if you project the same disrespectful and scornful attitude towards this guy and towards the coaches of other sports that you showed in your initial post, I can't really blame the AD for not simply dropping his pant, bending over, and grabbing his ankles for you, which is what you seem to expect him to do. |
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Post by airraider on Aug 8, 2008 12:52:04 GMT -6
As you might tell, I am frustrated with our field arrangement. We have our own stadium, but little free space otherwise. Soccer and field hockey not only get to play games on our field, they are now complaining about equal practice use. There are already two games per week min, and now they want off days to be shared. Our idiot AD actually thinks this is fair. He put together a rotating schedule that has us using the field once in the first 3 weeks of season (when games start). Wouldn't be so bad if we had a practice area, but he also wants us to use the worst area on campus as our regular practice field. basically, it is 30 yards wide (the genius decided to let baseball put all kinds of fences in the normal practice area). It also has a few "drainage grates" and is marked with potholes. Oh, it is also about 1000 yards from the stadium, which would make sled use a nightmare. I guess field hockey--which has scored one goal in two years--is really bringing in a ton of money at the gate. I could write 4 pages about this guy (I could care less if he happened to read this)--How do people like this keep their jobs? (End 0f rant) Why do you feel entitled to dictate the terms of facility usage? Sounds to me that the AD is doing the best he can with a bad situation. He has three different athletic programs that need practice space but he doesn't have space for all three teams at the same time. What you described is quite commonplace during the basketball season around here when schools have anywhere from 6-8 basketball teams that need to get in a practice but the school only has one contest gym. It is what it is...you do the best you can and that usually means compromising with other coaches. With all due respect, you kind of sound like a spoiled kid who is being forced to share his toys with his younger brothers and sisters. The schedule may not be what YOU wanted, but it sounds like it is fair. The guy is, after all, the ATHLETIC director, not the FOOTBALL director. And, to be perfectly honest, if you project the same disrespectful and scornful attitude towards this guy and towards the coaches of other sports that you showed in your initial post, I can't really blame the AD for not simply dropping his pant, bending over, and grabbing his ankles for you, which is what you seem to expect him to do. Wow!! Did you play soccer?? I dont think many coaches on here would react any differently if was not given a full field to work on.. I know I would not.. You sound a little pissy today. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2008 13:02:46 GMT -6
Wow!! Did you play soccer?? I dont think many coaches on here would react any differently if was not given a full field to work on.. I know I would not.. You sound a little pissy today. Well, what is the AD supposed to do? The guy has three high school teams that need to practice and there is apparently only one full-size facility where those practices can be held. It seems like a pretty simple situation to me. Given the fact that there are limited practice facilities at this school, it seems evident to me that the coaches of these three sports are going to have to work with each other because the facility has to be shared. Is it a perfect situation? Of course not, but, like my daddy used to say, you can't put 10 pounds of sh*t into a 5-pound bag. |
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Post by ajreaper on Aug 8, 2008 13:21:45 GMT -6
A football team gets the stadium once in 3 weeks and you see that "as an AD doing the best he can"?
How can you say that with a straight face (are you this AD)?
How about this- in three weeks there are 18 practice dates available (most associations do not allow Sunday practices) each gets the stadium 6 times and if you have games scheduled that counts as one of your 6.
Or this- you rotate daily use. One team gets it for two hours right after school then another gets it for the next two hour block and so forth. If you have a game that's your block. Each team gets early and late practices so everyone shares the burden.
Or this- The AD locates decent practice facilities as close by as possible and arranges transportation to them for the sports that require little more then a field and goals (football uses a variety of sleds, post mount trainers, chutes, dummies etc that would prove basically impossible to move and are needed).
I'm no AD and I came up with three viable options all better then whats described here and managed to do so without verbally abusing anyone (though I was tempted to as my Daddy used to say if it talks and acts like a fool it is one)
On top of that did this AD just realize now he has three sports needing safe appropriate practice facilities? Sounds like this guy ain't much of an AD if you ask me.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2008 13:32:23 GMT -6
Here's the problem...When these "dirty laundry" rants are posted here, we only get one side of the story. My guess is that the AD's take on this would be far different than the original poster's.
And, given the original poster's antipithy towards the other athletic programs in the school (one of his poll choices says something about having to share the field with "pointless" sports), I'm not surprised that the schedule didn't turn out the way he wanted.
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Post by coachcathey on Aug 8, 2008 13:35:11 GMT -6
My guess is the football team brings in the money along with taking care of the field, so if they do, I would bring that to the attention to the AD, if football pays for the maintence, then football gets first dibs, then the rest can fight over it. But if I am maintaining a field, I want it resting at least 2-3 days a week that we have home games.
If the other sports want to share for the maintence cost, then it may be a different story.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2008 13:39:07 GMT -6
My guess is the football team brings in the money along with taking care of the field, so if they do, I would bring that to the attention to the AD, if football pays for the maintence, then football gets first dibs, then the rest can fight over it. But if I am maintaining a field, I want it resting at least 2-3 days a week that we have home games. If the other sports want to share for the maintence cost, then it may be a different story. Tired argument. The football program typically brings in the most money of any sport, but they also spend the most. Last place I was at, the football budget was bigger than the rest of the sports combined. The idea that football pays for the other sports is usually a fallacy. And what "maintenance" costs are we talking about? Mowing? Watering? At most high schools I know of, there really isn't a full-time maintenance staff that takes care of the field. |
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Post by airraider on Aug 8, 2008 14:39:30 GMT -6
My guess is the football team brings in the money along with taking care of the field, so if they do, I would bring that to the attention to the AD, if football pays for the maintence, then football gets first dibs, then the rest can fight over it. But if I am maintaining a field, I want it resting at least 2-3 days a week that we have home games. If the other sports want to share for the maintence cost, then it may be a different story. Tired argument. The football program typically brings in the most money of any sport, but they also spend the most. Last place I was at, the football budget was bigger than the rest of the sports combined. The idea that football pays for the other sports is usually a fallacy. And what "maintenance" costs are we talking about? Mowing? Watering? At most high schools I know of, there really isn't a full-time maintenance staff that takes care of the field. At my school girls and boys basketball usually take care of themselves, but football floats each and every other sport.. and cost to maintain a field?? Lets see.. with gas being $4 a gallon.. thats a huge cost in cutting the field right there.. fertilizer.. poison.. use of sprayer.. (or cost to buy one).. seeding when needed.. watering.. sure enough not a bill I would want to foot if I couldnt only use it when no one else needed it. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2008 15:37:18 GMT -6
Tired argument. The football program typically brings in the most money of any sport, but they also spend the most. Last place I was at, the football budget was bigger than the rest of the sports combined. The idea that football pays for the other sports is usually a fallacy. And what "maintenance" costs are we talking about? Mowing? Watering? At most high schools I know of, there really isn't a full-time maintenance staff that takes care of the field. At my school girls and boys basketball usually take care of themselves, but football floats each and every other sport.. and cost to maintain a field?? Lets see.. with gas being $4 a gallon.. thats a huge cost in cutting the field right there.. fertilizer.. poison.. use of sprayer.. (or cost to buy one).. seeding when needed.. watering.. sure enough not a bill I would want to foot if I couldnt only use it when no one else needed it. Does the maintenance for the football field come specifically out of the football budget? I doubt it. In most schools, mowing, watering, repairing bleachers, whatever usually comes out of the facilities fund. I don't know of any football coaches who have to figure in mowing and watering of the football field when they are figuring what to spend their budget on. And again, as far as football "paying" for the other sports...I just don't buy it. When you look at the costs of maintaining a high school football program (equipment, transportation, facilities, coaches salaries), it usually exceeds the profit the school makes from football. In other words, the football program might bring in "X" amount of dollars to the athletic budget every year and that might be the highest grossing sport, but the football program will most likely spend more than that because the expenses are much higher in football than in any other sports. |
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Post by airraider on Aug 8, 2008 15:48:16 GMT -6
At my school girls and boys basketball usually take care of themselves, but football floats each and every other sport.. and cost to maintain a field?? Lets see.. with gas being $4 a gallon.. thats a huge cost in cutting the field right there.. fertilizer.. poison.. use of sprayer.. (or cost to buy one).. seeding when needed.. watering.. sure enough not a bill I would want to foot if I couldnt only use it when no one else needed it. Does the maintenance for the football field come specifically out of the football budget? I doubt it. In most schools, mowing, watering, repairing bleachers, whatever usually comes out of the facilities fund. I don't know of any football coaches who have to figure in mowing and watering of the football field when they are figuring what to spend their budget on. And again, as far as football "paying" for the other sports...I just don't buy it. When you look at the costs of maintaining a high school football program (equipment, transportation, facilities, coaches salaries), it usually exceeds the profit the school makes from football. In other words, the football program might bring in "X" amount of dollars to the athletic budget every year and that might be the highest grossing sport, but the football program will most likely spend more than that because the expenses are much higher in football than in any other sports. I really couldnt care a drop less what your thoughts on the situation are, but I am telling you what I am telling you.. we float everything other than the basketball teams.. |
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Post by coachkeng on Aug 8, 2008 19:47:28 GMT -6
Who needs sleds when you have perfectly good fences to push over?
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Post by wonderingcoach on Aug 8, 2008 23:06:10 GMT -6
It seems that, all other arguments aside. The school needs to crack down on this baseball buisness. If its an off-season sport then thier outfield becomes your backfield. Also it seems like you have a title 9 issue. But then lets face it, we all have a title 9 issue.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 9, 2008 8:18:32 GMT -6
It seems that, all other arguments aside. The school needs to crack down on this baseball buisness. If its an off-season sport then thier outfield becomes your backfield. Also it seems like you have a title 9 issue. But then lets face it, we all have a title 9 issue. That may certainly be a part of it. It seems like the biggest issue is a lack of space, though. Every school I have ever worked for had enough practice space for everyone. I can certainly understand the frustration when the only real practice space is the game field, especially when that has to be shared between three teams. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 9, 2008 10:53:31 GMT -6
I have a few problems with several of the arguments here.
First, the tone of the original post seems to insinuate that the field is "the football" field , and not the schools field.
Second, I absolutely ABHOR when coaches start talking financial matters in HS sports. The whole "we make the money, they are lesser sports" idea is pure BS, and is diametrically opposed to the "kids first" attitude that schoolboy athletics should have. The only type of financial talk I can tolerate is individual sport fundraising. If your kids and you fund raise, you should keep all of that. But just because your gate and advertising is bigger, doesn't make you a "more important" sport.
Third--I would like some clarification on this field usage the original poster described. You mention splitting with soccer and field hockey. How many teams are we talking though? 2 soccer? (boys/girls) 2 field hockey? (boys/girls). Are these programs getting MORE days on the field, or are they getting the same?
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Post by 19delta on Aug 9, 2008 13:09:01 GMT -6
I have a few problems with several of the arguments here. First, the tone of the original post seems to insinuate that the field is "the football" field , and not the schools field. Second, I absolutely ABHOR when coaches start talking financial matters in HS sports. The whole "we make the money, they are lesser sports" idea is pure BS, and is diametrically opposed to the "kids first" attitude that schoolboy athletics should have. The only type of financial talk I can tolerate is individual sport fundraising. If your kids and you fund raise, you should keep all of that. But just because your gate and advertising is bigger, doesn't make you a "more important" sport. Third--I would like some clarification on this field usage the original poster described. You mention splitting with soccer and field hockey. How many teams are we talking though? 2 soccer? (boys/girls) 2 field hockey? (boys/girls). Are these programs getting MORE days on the field, or are they getting the same? Finally, a voice of reason! |
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Post by poweriguy on Aug 9, 2008 18:41:56 GMT -6
I can easily see this field turning into dirt with all that traffic! Worst case scenario:
Varsity football
JV football
varsity boys soccer
varsity girls soccer
jv girls soccer
jv boys soccer
varsity field hockey
jv field hockey
Ugghh! I would push the AD on getting field turf!!!
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 9, 2008 18:46:58 GMT -6
PowerIguy..
I was thinking the same thing.
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Post by airraider on Aug 9, 2008 21:26:03 GMT -6
I have a few problems with several of the arguments here. First, the tone of the original post seems to insinuate that the field is "the football" field , and not the schools field. Second, I absolutely ABHOR when coaches start talking financial matters in HS sports. The whole "we make the money, they are lesser sports" idea is pure BS, and is diametrically opposed to the "kids first" attitude that schoolboy athletics should have. The only type of financial talk I can tolerate is individual sport fundraising. If your kids and you fund raise, you should keep all of that. But just because your gate and advertising is bigger, doesn't make you a "more important" sport. Third--I would like some clarification on this field usage the original poster described. You mention splitting with soccer and field hockey. How many teams are we talking though? 2 soccer? (boys/girls) 2 field hockey? (boys/girls). Are these programs getting MORE days on the field, or are they getting the same? Finally, a voice of reason! No no.. not the voice of reason.. the voice of antagony..  |
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Post by airraider on Aug 10, 2008 7:54:41 GMT -6
Coach, it sounds like your problems go much deep than field issues.. It seems like either you are working for a true jerk.. or that you and him do not see eye to eye and he is taking it out on you by authority.. either way.. maybe its time to move on after this season.. no need being in a bad place.. too many good jobs out there for you to have to put up with that..
other idea.. 99% of people have superiors.. climb the ladder..
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Post by 19delta on Aug 10, 2008 8:36:36 GMT -6
way.. maybe its time to move on after this season.. no need being in a bad place.. too many good jobs out there for you to have to put up with that.. Took the post right off my fingers... No sense staying at a place where: - Your efforts are not appreciated
- Athletics are not a priority to the administration
- Other conditions beyond your control make it very difficult to consistently field a competitive team
Based on this list, I would say that the original poster is batting 1.000! Time to move on... |
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Post by coachcathey on Aug 10, 2008 8:40:24 GMT -6
delta19
Maybe the things done at your program are perfect, but not all programs are ran that way. Some schools don't follow your "standards".
I have saw the football team support every sport in the program...every sport. Does that mean that football shouldn't get to spend some of the money on necessities because they have to pay for the travel of other teams to go to games?
Also some schools do pay for the maintence because the money isn't there in the school funds, but the field still has to look good.
All situations are different so don't just think that your way is the right way, because some tired arguements are well, not tired.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 10, 2008 9:08:44 GMT -6
delta19 Maybe the things done at your program are perfect, but not all programs are ran that way. Some schools don't follow your "standards". I have saw the football team support every sport in the program...every sport. Does that mean that football shouldn't get to spend some of the money on necessities because they have to pay for the travel of other teams to go to games? Also some schools do pay for the maintence because the money isn't there in the school funds, but the field still has to look good. All situations are different so don't just think that your way is the right way, because some tired arguements are well, not tired. I'm not sure what you are arguing, exactly. Are you saying that, at your school, field maintenance comes out of the football budget? I have NEVER heard of a school where the football coach has to pay for upkeep of the field out of his FOOTBALL budget (the funds the school allocates to him for items that are SPECIFICALLY related to his sport). Does it happen? Maybe...but it is certainly NOT the norm. Who are some coaches who have to pay for field maintenance out of their football budget? You said "some schools"...OK...I'll play...Which ones? As far as "necessities" go, which necessities have you been denied because you had to pay for the other sports? How much money does the football program bring in at your school? And how much does your school spend on football? By the way, that would include coaching salaries, equipment reconditioning and purchases, transportation costs, payment for officials and game staff, field upkeep and maintenance, weight room equipment and facility upgrades, etc, etc. Does what you bring in from the 4-5 home games a year cover all those expenses? Typically, the answer is NO. There may be SOME high schools that can cover the expenses of the football program with gate receipts and other means, but those schools are the EXCEPTION, not the RULE. As far as my situation goes...I am coaching and teaching at my third school. At the first two I was at, I didn't like the way things were done, so I moved on. The place I am at now does things the way I like as much as I can tell. Are there things that I would do differently? Sure, but I'm not the head coach. So, I have to weigh the good versus the bad. Where I am at now, the "good" far outweighs the "bad". At the first two places I was at, that was not the case, so I left. It's that simple...instead of coming on a website and b*tching and moaning about things that are completely out of your control and won't be changed by an anonymous rant on some website, you either try to change it or you move on to a place that most shares your vision. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result... |
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Post by fbdoc on Aug 10, 2008 15:07:53 GMT -6
Just noticed this thread - interesting progression of emotions... Agree with those who suggest this particular marriage cannot be saved. Time to move on, but until then - I suggest you and your staff put on a good face and embrace the challenge that you have. Make this a rallying cry for your team - not against the AD or the other programs in your school - but against your opposition! "WE have to overcome all of these challenges and as such WE are tougher than those guys, WE are going to win!" Sounds like your situation IS what it IS. Make the best of it, and look for greener pastures. |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Aug 10, 2008 16:09:45 GMT -6
It is obvious to just about everyone here that unless your A.D. is removed, it is time for you to move on. This guy my be incompetent, weak-willed, silly, or just hate your guts...we will never know. It might even be a personality conflict, can you believe that? Good luck in your year, put it behind you the best you can, and work hard for the kids...they deserve the best. I've seen a number of these type things over the years. Usually they end of being a big mess. Most of the time I wish I could just grab people by the shoulders and say, "snap out of it." I've seen admins make huge messes and end of destroying the schools. I've seen coaches be complete and total idiots, while they though they were brilliant. I personally know more than one total idiot. I've seen admins who simply shouldn't have been in charge of anything, and after a few years they were gone. I coached with a guy who was not smart in anyway but thought he was, and blamed everything on someone else. I think alot of these guys had mental and emotional problems, but for some reason functioned well enough to at least get the job. They washed out eventually. And get this...we don't know you either. I |
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Post by cmow5 on Aug 10, 2008 20:24:51 GMT -6
I will just answer the question with out a opinion because it would be a biased one.
We have 2 and half practice fields which is great, but there condition is bad. I don't think they ever water them, but they could be worse. We have the game field which again for only being 6 years old is in bad shape. Soccer has there field and baseball has a few diamonds. Cant complain much besides the watering of both fields and I believe the football field is ONLY used for football.
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Post by talexander on Aug 13, 2008 3:37:38 GMT -6
So, most of you are in consensus that I should finish the year? I am so worn out, the season hasn't even started. I was told in December that this was worked out, and suddenly I was presented with a schedule a little more than week before practice begins (this monday). I don't know how much I can take. I kind of feel the kids deserve someone who will be supported more than I am. Too late to step down?
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Post by fbdoc on Aug 17, 2008 14:37:34 GMT -6
Glad it worked out - sort of. Coach those kids and then at the end of the year, assess your situation. The floating concept is one I use as an AD - get the teams on the best field/court as it allows.
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Post by coachbrexrode on Sept 14, 2008 0:34:12 GMT -6
Coach
After reading what you have posted, I have a few questions that come to mind.
How big is your school? What Division do you play in 5A D1
How many levels of football do you have?
What is the relationship with your site principal?
How many coaches are on staff?
Are you an on-site coach? How long?
What type of school are you at? Inner city vs Rural
What type of booster support do you have?
Are you a winning program or struggling?
Coach, I've seen plenty in 30 plus years of coaching. The key thing is that you need to ask yourself this. Can I win here? If the answer is no. You need to move on.
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