billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Aug 7, 2008 20:01:24 GMT -6
Here is a scenario a couple of us were discussing today. The score is tied there's twenty seconds left and your opponent has the ball on third down on your five yard line. They are letting the clock wind down to kick the field goal with no time left. Do you call time out and give them another down, or do you let them wind the clock down and make it a one shot deal hoping you can block the kick or they miss it?
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Post by tothehouse on Aug 7, 2008 20:41:05 GMT -6
wind down...let them call timeout. Right before they kick.....call your own time out.....block the kick and return it for a TD....win the game.
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 7, 2008 21:01:08 GMT -6
if you have 2 timeouts left ... call one. makes them decide to kick it with 20 seconds left, and, thus, giving you a chance to return the kickoff and/or have 1 last shot at the hail mary. or, they must snap it again and risk a turnover on the snap (as they are not likely to actually run a play other than qb kneel/wedge or a run play into the line).
if you have 1 timeout left... let them call their timeout, line up to kick the FG, then call you final timeout to ice the kicker in hopes he shanks it, sending the game to overtime.
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Post by touchdowng on Aug 7, 2008 22:30:34 GMT -6
In our league I would have to say that most teams have a "victory field goal" where they can assemble a FG team and get the kick off in 10 seconds, or so.
If the team had a legit kicker and looked like they were going to attempt what amounts to a 37 yard field goal, I'd call T.O. and take my chances on getting the ball back one last time and maybe getting 2 or 3 plays.
If team doesn't have a legit kicker, I'd let the clock run and when they call their timeout, I would prepare my defense for a fake FG.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 8, 2008 7:56:56 GMT -6
wind down...let them call timeout. Right before they kick.....call your own time out.....block the kick and return it for a TD....win the game. People laugh about that but it actually happened to us in a playoff game last year. We still won by one when the other team went for 2 for the win. We thought we would kick the FG to go up two scores and seal the win. I guess the other team had a different idea. We have decided as a staff to just take a delay of game and try and run the clock down and let them go 90+ to win instead of being greedy and going for the points. That was the coaching moment where as the kid is running down the field with the ball you actually think of jumping for the press box and no one tries to stop you. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 8, 2008 15:12:44 GMT -6
.. If the team had a legit kicker and looked like they were going to attempt what amounts to a 37 yard field goal, I'd call T.O. and take my chances on getting the ball back one last time and maybe getting 2 or 3 plays. I'm missing the math on how the ball being at the 5 yard line amounts to a 37 yard field goal? Just how far back are you placing the holder? ;D |
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Post by touchdowng on Aug 8, 2008 18:40:21 GMT -6
Oops I was thinking 20 yard line - not 20 seconds. I was just checking to see if anybody would read my response  I guess that changes things. I'd pray. ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2008 19:39:08 GMT -6
Here is a scenario a couple of us were discussing today. The score is tied there's twenty seconds left and your opponent has the ball on third down on your five yard line. They are letting the clock wind down to kick the field goal with no time left. Do you call time out and give them another down, or do you let them wind the clock down and make it a one shot deal hoping you can block the kick or they miss it? As a huge proponent of clock management I'd say you call the time out, no hesitation. coach, if they are managing the clock in that fashion, it's probably a given that they can make a field goal from that range. Knowing that you have to apply the logic behind letting the clock wind down...to drain any time you would have to mount a comeback. Look at it this way, lets say you call the time out at 16 seconds, they line up, the kick is up and it's good. Ok so now you're trailing by only 3 with what 13 seconds left on the clock...Now I know it's not ideal, but at least they're not up by 3 with no time left. You still have a chance, you might spring a return, or even throw a hail mary (which is why I practice them). Letting the clock wind down, when your opponent is almost certain to take the lead is suicidal, not to mention stupid. The ballsiest thing I ever saw was Mike Holmgren, in the 98 superbowl allow Denver to score a TD deliberately, with 1:47 left on the clock, he did this so he could get the ball back with as much time as possible. He lost but he gave himself the best chance Coach , P/U a copy of John Reeds clock management book, it's the bible I swear by and explains situations, how to handle them and why. It's backed by pretty solid research, and mathmatical probabilities. It changed the way I coach |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2008 12:25:02 GMT -6
Or hell they might even miss it, then look at what you have to work with , all because you saved yourself some time
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 11, 2008 8:58:54 GMT -6
understand... most teams will likely NOT kick the FG immediately following your timeout. They will probably snap the ball, take a knee, THEN burn their timeout ... at least, we wouldn't simply kick right then. i mean, the plan was obvious not to give the ball back to the opponent. why would them calling a timeout change that plan? yes, risk a fumble on the snap ... but, what is chances of that compared to chances of opponent running back a kickoff? both are slim, but would prefer betting on a kickoff return than a fumbled snap.
either way, you have extended the game another snap ... and they do risk fumbling the snap... small chance, granted, but may be only chance you have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 10:34:52 GMT -6
understand... most teams will likely NOT kick the FG immediately following your timeout. They will probably snap the ball, take a knee, THEN burn their timeout ... at least, we wouldn't simply kick right then. i mean, the plan was obvious not to give the ball back to the opponent. why would them calling a timeout change that plan? yes, risk a fumble on the snap ... but, what is chances of that compared to chances of opponent running back a kickoff? both are slim, but would prefer betting on a kickoff return than a fumbled snap. either way, you have extended the game another snap ... and they do risk fumbling the snap... small chance, granted, but may be only chance you have. I agree, it also depends on how many timeouts each team has. I could proably cite instances where teams let the clock tick down to 4 seconds (NFL fPield goals average 3) only to have the ensuing kick off returned for the game winning TD. Reed's rule of thumb is to save as much time (hurry up) as possible whenever trailing, or in a situation where you are about to be trailing. The opposite holds true for the lead |
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billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Aug 11, 2008 17:47:23 GMT -6
My thinking is to make it a one snap game. Here is why. If we let them try the kick with twenty seconds left on third down and there is a bad snap they can get on it and try another kick. Odds are very small of running the kick off back or scoring if they make they make the field goal. Make it a one snap game and try like heck to block it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 18:06:53 GMT -6
My thinking is to make it a one snap game. Here is why. If we let them try the kick with twenty seconds left on third down and there is a bad snap they can get on it and try another kick. Odds are very small of running the kick off back or scoring if they make they make the field goal. Make it a one snap game and try like heck to block it. Ok but why not make the last snap yours ???Trying like hell to block it, is a given, any way you look at it your chances are slim, but impossible, not even close, unless of course you let all the time expire and waste any chance you had at all.. |
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Post by bleefb on Aug 11, 2008 18:09:14 GMT -6
I guess that depends if you have more confidence in your return team or PAT Block team. Which one do you practice the most?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 18:20:29 GMT -6
I guess that depends if you have more confidence in your return team or PAT Block team. Which one do you practice the most? I disagree, I think it comes down to how you handle situations, honestly. By far you have more practice time with your offense than any PAT block team, I'm going to get them back on the field. Again if they are sitting on the clock with the score tied, it's a pretty good indicator that they are in their FG range. Although you are going to try your hardest to stop them from doing so, I'm not going to rely on it |
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Post by fbdoc on Aug 11, 2008 18:58:58 GMT -6
We're talking high school here. How many times have you seen the average HS kicker (or holder, or snapper) blow it in what seemed to be a sure thing situation? Call time out, then overload one side like crazy and MAKE the kid beat you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 3:48:07 GMT -6
We're talking high school here. How many times have you seen the average HS kicker (or holder, or snapper) blow it in what seemed to be a sure thing situation? Call time out, then overload one side like crazy and MAKE the kid beat you. I don't know how often they blow it, but either way, you still want the ball back |
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billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Aug 12, 2008 20:46:50 GMT -6
My point is why give them two shots at it if there is a snap issue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2008 14:01:32 GMT -6
My point is why give them two shots at it if there is a snap issue. You're not giving them 2 shots at it, once the ball is snapped, it's in play unless there is a penalty. I understand what you are saying, is let the game ride on the kick and hope for a screw up, but I don't ever count on the other team screwig up, that's underestimating them. What I'm saying is that you have to plan for the worst, not hope for the best. By letting the time tick off, you are playing their game, I can't speak for a team that doesn't exist, but I know fairly certainly that if the game is riding on one kick, that its a given, they're coming after it. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 16, 2008 16:22:10 GMT -6
great points on several of the last threads ... but, all seem to be of the mind set that once the defense calls timeout (with 20 seconds remaining) that the offense will kick the FG right then, leaving 20 seconds on the clock.
but, let's be honest, if the offense has a timeout in their pocket, AND it isn't 4th down, they will/should snap the ball again ... letting more time run off the clock. they will/should only call their own timeout when they have milked all they can and are now ready to kick (i.e. 1-2 seconds on game clock).
on the offensive side of the ball ... we will run as much time off before kicking (if that is what we decided - that we think we have great chance of making the FG). regardless of whether defense calls timeouts or not, we will call ours on 4th down with 1 second left on play clock or with 1-2 seconds left on game clock (whichever comes first).... so, you calling timeout after 3rd down with 20 seconds left doesn't mean we will NOW kick a FG... we'll take a knee, run clock to about 2, then call timeout (or if you have another timeout then you must call that one as well, forcing us to kick with about 15-16 seconds left)
but, regardless of semantics ... the defense, when trailing, should always try to prolong the game. more snaps = more chances for defense to get ball back (some how, some way,,, fumbled snap, dumb coach that DOES kick it with 20 left yet still has a timeout and gives you time for KOR and/or another offensive play)...
don't "play for overtime" when on defense ... play to "get the ball back" when on defense.
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Post by nohuddlecoach on Aug 18, 2008 16:43:00 GMT -6
Ditto on John Reed's Clock Management book. Order it from Amazon....be one of the best investments you ever made.... I make all our coaches read it.
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