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Post by lucassean2 on Jul 26, 2008 12:00:55 GMT -6
Coaches
I would like to provide private coaching instruction to WR's or QB's during the off-season for high school age or grammar school age students. Do you have any advice about how I should market theses lessons to prospective players, how long each lesson should last, how many players I should have at each lesson, etc? Any coaches that have, or currently do this, what advice can you give me to get this off the ground and what experiences have you had in this endeavor?
Thank you
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 26, 2008 12:39:07 GMT -6
I wish you well. Most coaches I know are not keen about their players receiving private instruction as there are simply too many opportunities for conflicts with technique, teaching progression, and loyalty. I'm sure you are highly qualified and have the best interests of the kids in mind, but those same kids are playing for a coach who already has a staff, a scheme, and a plan for his players. Adding an indepedent factor into the mix may not be welcomed with open arms.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 26, 2008 13:03:29 GMT -6
I echo fbdoc's sentiments. I would concentrate on the younger age group, where they are not in a "program" as much as the H.S. kids. As I mentioned in another thread, football is different in that many of the "techniques" that would be taught don't exist in a vacuum. It is not like baseball or basketball, where if you can teach a kid to hit or shoot, nobody will mess with them.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 26, 2008 13:50:02 GMT -6
lucassean2
IF you are dead set on making this happen, you should go to the area coaches and extend an opportunity for some input. I would also keep regular contact with them.
We had a guy in our community about 10 years ago that did something similar to this. He worked well with all and for about 4 years he was able to pull this idea off.
He has left our area and has established himself with another local community and he has been successful there too.
We run youth camps and teach OUR skills to the camps (ages 7-15). About 50% of the kids that come to our camp will go elsewhere to a different H.S. We always keep our fundamentals very basic but also tell the kids that if they play elsewhere, they MUST listen to their coaches when their season begins.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 26, 2008 14:52:00 GMT -6
I would be against any of our players doing anything like this. Being honest I think any coach worth their weight would tell their players to stay away from something like this. I just feeling like its infringing on a coaches turf. You may be a great teacher of wr/qb's but I can tell you one thing, our kids are gonna play the way we tell them to and teach them not how some private tutor tells them to play.
Coached with a guy who was considered one of the best line coaches in the country at any level and the most brutally honest person I have ever met. Had a lineman playing for us who went to a summer camp for the OL. Kid came back all excited about the new stance he learned there, decided he was gonna show it to the above mentioned coach. Coach had the kid get in the stance and walked around him about 10 times inspecting his stance. Asked the kid how much the camp was. Kid said $400. Coach said "You should have saved your money and bought a golf club cause your never gonna use that stance as long as you play here." and walked away.
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wccoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 159
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Post by wccoach on Jul 26, 2008 15:39:59 GMT -6
I would have to agree with the prior comments as they apply to specific physical techniques taught by an independent coaching organization. There are many different ways to accomplish certain assignments and each coaching staff will teach it differently depending on their scheme. I would find it difficult to come to a consensus on how to teach any particular physical trait.
However, I do believe that an independent coaching organization could find success in developing a program to improve the "Football IQ" of high school players. A program that teaches players on the basics of Defensive/Offensive structure could be very beneficial to players. For example, I cannot see any coach being put off by a defensive back learning how basic route packages are structured, and the concepts behind them. I would welcome my players being taught how the curl/flat, NCAA, or mesh routes are structured and how each route works together in the pattern package. Over the years, our best free safeties had a good ability to read pattern structure and were able to anticipate the QB reads based on this information. This is only one example that could be built on. There are so many different mental aspects to football that hold true across a variety of schemes, that an independent coaching organization should be able to structure a number of programs that could be economically successful. Just an Opinion
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Post by 19delta on Jul 26, 2008 15:51:20 GMT -6
Are you a high school football coach, as well? In my state, something like this would be illegal if any of your clients would be kids you are going to coach the next year.
Other thing to think about is stepping on the toes of the fall and winter sports coaches. I know that typically, those coaches don't want their athletes working on a different sport inseason.
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Post by brophy on Jul 26, 2008 16:45:59 GMT -6
before this request for advise becomes a frutration-riddled pinata.... Most coaches I know are not keen about their players receiving private instruction as there are simply too many opportunities for conflicts with technique, teaching progression, and loyalty. grammar school age students. It would appear a little late in the game to start this up NOW, though. Summer youth - MS instruction is a great opportunity to further the sport, create a 'camp' environment (where it wouldn't be available for kids this young), baby-sitting, and a nifty way to make some money on the side. 2-3 times a week at 1 1/2 - 2 hours of instruction, using a basic warmup routine, individual drills, agility/speed drills, with an emphasis on technique, with a climax of some type of position specific competition, then a cool down and some kind of 'homework' assignment (minor). as little as 1 kid to as many as 12 would be normal.
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Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 26, 2008 16:59:22 GMT -6
Wingtol.... classic.
If you want to do this with little kids, I think it would be fine. But the problem is I am going to teach my QB the way I know. If he is doing something else, which might actually be better, I might (as a coach) not realize it and penalize the kid for not doing it the "right" way.
That being said we have a guy in our area that just does private S and C. He has caused a great deal of turmoil as we have kids missing our off-season stuff and the kids parents are adamant that he is getting better coaching with this guy. Since my parents were pieces of work, I won't penalize that kid. We can't choose the nuts in our family tree.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 26, 2008 18:01:13 GMT -6
lucassean2 - as Brophy pointed out, you asked for "advice" about how to go about starting a private instruction business and "what experiences you have had in this endeavor." As you can see, my first comments were to wish you well and I still do. As you can also see, most of the responces agree with my other comments, namely that coaches don't want their players getting private instruction. I also don't want this to turn into a locked thread but ... if you have to ask how to organize the practice sessions for length, # of kids, etc ... what does this say about you as a qualified private coach? It would be like me asking a Literature teacher to tell me how to organize my language lessons so I can market myself as a professional SAT prep teacher.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 26, 2008 19:58:30 GMT -6
fbdoc--- I would have to disagree with you a bit. I have thought about doing a similar thing in the off-season (more along the lines of S&C/agilities--due to the facts that most of us have mentioned here). However, I could see where I would like to ask others how long private group sessions worked..what their experiences with # of kids were etc.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 26, 2008 20:16:36 GMT -6
coachd - I do see your point. But I still feel if someone is going to present themself as a private coach (I read this as "expert"), particularly for football skills, I would expect them to know these kind of organizational details. Not saying there are not other explanations. Just my opinion.
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Post by brophy on Jul 26, 2008 20:18:56 GMT -6
getting the word out would be through local YMCA's and contacting elementary school PE teachers (if you have that relationship).
I've seen this done before, but nothing large scale. Usually, one coach and 2-4 kids a session. Something like $125 for 4 weeks of instruction. Like I said before, it was done more of a 'get the kid out of the parents hair for a few hours' than an actual instructional thrust by the parents. Your turnout/interest will be as good as your coaching rep is (Varsity title, Jr Hs Head Coach, etc). If you have a local youth sports league (usually this is done through the YMCA) it is a good place to start PRIOR to the season beginning.
The 'camp' / lessons take place on a community school property. Not every situation is equal - and I mention this because you have to look at it from a parent's perspective (what are they getting out of the deal)?
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Post by 19delta on Jul 26, 2008 20:25:04 GMT -6
In terms of "marketing", I think the BEST way would be word-of-mouth. What you could do is try to put an initial group of maybe 5-6 kids together, work with them for free, and then use them for references for your future business. The other thing you can do is to show up to local little league games or other organized sporting activities and look to hand out business cards or flyers. Your advertising costs would be relatively low yet you will have access to a lot of potential clients. Volunteer to coach a junior high sports team. This will give you access to the names of kids and their parents.
I actually think this is something that could be valuable for middle school aged kids...often, those kids, especially in the "golden boy" positions, don't get the technique-specific coaching that they need and often, they really have bad habits that are hard to break after 2-3 years of suspect coaching at the middle school level.
The other thing to think about is when you are going to run these sessions. It would tough to do them in the summer because kids have a million things going on. However, for many kids, their lives actually slow down considerably once school starts so you might want to shoot for holding these sessions in the winter or spring. That would also give you time to attend a bunch of middle school football games this fall and/or basketball games this winter to start building up a prospective client list.
Anyway, good luck.
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Post by davecisar on Jul 26, 2008 20:31:39 GMT -6
There are a number of people around here that do it. Ive been asked to do it myself (youth level), but just dont have the time or inclination.
TO make it work: YOu have to go where 1) there is a serious interest in football. 2) where there is disposable income. The YMCA is rarely the place competitive youth football is played it is usually extremely non competitive and low quality by design. Work relationships with the high dollar select programs, the expensive travel teams, that is where there is high levels of interest and funds are available. You might check into what Darrin Slack is doing, attend one of his camps and how he does things from a proccess/organizational perspective, No High School coaches seem to get uptight about their kids going to his camps.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 26, 2008 21:09:39 GMT -6
Hate to say it but privatization isn't going away. The problem is that there are some knowledgeable people and there are scam artists. As HC's we have to be open to these operations because they are going to exist in the larger areas. You just have to do your homework and be careful who you endorse. If you are totally against it - that is your right. Try explaining that to a backup defensive back who wants to start next year for you.
Parents are going to wonder why a football coach wouldn't want his players to get better during the off-season. They'll invent their own truths and they won't be positive in your favor.
I was asked about 10 years ago to help start a FB academy where specific skills would be taught to age groups 10 through 18. I was going to get paid $20 an hour and the students/players would be paying $40 an hour. The academy had a few coaches who would work with specific position groups and pretty much run it the way the baseball guys have been doing it for years.
I backed out because I didn't want to use any of MY extra time on anything but my own program and my family. I already ran a summer camp and figured that was the best way for a H.S. coach to help out with this type of thing.
At any rate, if operated by knowledgeable people, what's the harm?
I send my QB's and Receivers to the local university during the winter to receive extra coaching from the Air Attack people. They may not teach the skills exactly like I do but I've seen my skill guys get better. But I did my homework and asked some respected coaches in our area before I endorsed it.
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Post by ajreaper on Jul 26, 2008 23:08:46 GMT -6
I think you'd better look into what liability insurance and such will run you- if your going to be doing this you better be covered in that regard.
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Post by lucassean2 on Jul 27, 2008 9:28:32 GMT -6
Thank you for all of the posts up to this point, they have definitely made given me marketing ideas to use and liability issues to research. Please continue with the advice if you have any.
Thank you
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 27, 2008 11:40:45 GMT -6
when i was doing this (did private lessons, 1-hour sessions, etc.) i focused solely on the technique of throwing and dropback. there was some film study but mainly on the basics of generic plays/coverages.
i always asked the players what they were taught. example: if we were working quicks from the gun, i asked them how their coach taught them to do it.... then, we did it that way. my goal was merely to get the qb more reps and focus on the actual mechanics. could care less if his coach had him "hop step" or "pivot" or whatever ... wasn't a goal. reps, reps, reps and mechanics, mechanics, mechanics.
ask darin, his focus is on the mechanics not the "way to run smash in MY offense" ... did this for 5 years and had several players, ranging from JH to HS seniors. never had problems with other coaches. why? because i wasn't cramming "my" offense or "my" way down anyone's throat. was simply reinforcing what was already taught or was working on basic throwing mechanics - which everyone teaches.
i mean, if you TEACH your kids to throw sidearm with their throwing foot always forward and you don't want me correcting it, then don't let him get a tutor .. lol. otherwise, i would think most private sessions are not agenda driven. i just wanted the guys that came to me to get reps they wouldn't normally get during the summer. was also a change of pace for them to hear someone else repeat/stress coaching points that they had been hearing from their coaches. sometimes, having someone else say it makes it click for a kid.
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Post by dsqa on Aug 1, 2008 11:41:02 GMT -6
As you can see, this idea of being a trainer of athletes is a noble one, but there are endless perceptions that exist in the minds of coaches about the value of such training. I think the key to starting anything like that is word of mouth, and it doesn't hurt if you have credibility in your methods. Obviously, there are thousands of ways people try to differentiate themselves, but Coach Huey is right, if you keep the coaching around what matters most to serving the coach - it won't be a threat at all - it can be a blessing to them.
Coach Huey I am still committed to that project we discussed recently, and we are close to having something for you to look at - I will be in touch.
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Post by lucassean2 on Aug 6, 2008 19:09:36 GMT -6
Coachalbert
Why is it that you would not want to start your own groups?
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