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Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 24, 2008 14:38:13 GMT -6
I was curious if anyone establishes formal rules for thier staff conduct... As an HC I have always had certain expectations out of my staff. But my last job I had politcal realities that made me very weak. I always just want to check if I am out of touch with the mainstream. Is it unreasonable to expect a staff to adhere to a rigid system? College staffs I know are much better at this, but then a College HC is a god walking...
Is it unreasonable to expect staff to not swear, infront of the kids, wear team uniforms, attend all practices and meetings, stand behind the HC during team huddles and never contradict each other infront of the kids? I worked for one hard-#$@ Coach my first year, who really drove all these things home... but he was ancient then and dead now. Is that era over?
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Post by liberalhater on Jul 24, 2008 14:48:00 GMT -6
IMO, this is part of taking a job. You better know who you are working for.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 24, 2008 15:04:39 GMT -6
wonderingcoach...I think those are all GREAT examples of things a HC can do to be successful. Nothing wrong with them at all...however, they sometimes WILL rock the boat. The reason why college staffs are generally better is that they don't have teaching positions. Toe the line, or get fired. At the H.S. levels, it is harder, because a guy could not like the way you do things, and even if you fire him as a coach he often will still retain his teaching spot. Building a quality staff is hard when the teaching positions dry up.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Jul 24, 2008 16:18:00 GMT -6
Practice what you preach - just as with kids so to grown men - you get what you tolerate. I personally don't or do each one of those things consistently all the time. Most of the staff immediatly complies the rest follow over time. These are grown men - I expect them to act professionally. If they don't get the hint we have standards and procedures through our athletic department through which I can step by step remove them.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 24, 2008 19:54:23 GMT -6
Is it unreasonable to expect staff to not swear, infront of the kids, wear team uniforms, attend all practices and meetings, stand behind the HC during team huddles and never contradict each other infront of the kids? I think those are must does. Someone can't do those things? They aren't going to be on my staff.
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Post by k on Jul 24, 2008 20:31:27 GMT -6
Is it unreasonable to expect staff to not swear infront of the kids Reasonable. To games reasonable if the program is buying them, everyday unreasonable. Reasonable Don't understand sorry. The HC is usually engulfed... Reasonable.
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Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 24, 2008 23:06:13 GMT -6
By stand behind the HC I mean physically and metaphoricly. I can't stand it when I used to talk to my team see an assistant Coach behind them, where they can't see them and or talking or zoning. I don't mean to be too hollywood, but I always picture the other Black Coach with Coach Boone in Remember the Titians. I always stay behind the HC so that the kids can see that we as a staff are in support of whatever the HC says. Also so the kids havce the expected behavior modeled. I don't know if that makes more sense. ALso as for daily uniforms. I always provided 5 t shirts and 5 pairs of shorts for just practice and game attire. I always figured if the kids are expected to be the same, we should model the behavior.
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Post by mitch on Jul 25, 2008 9:54:38 GMT -6
If I had a guy that wouldn't support me and team goal, cussed in front of the kids, didn't show up to team meetings or practices, or contradicted other coaches in front of the kids, I'd tell him to hit the road.
I don't worry about coaches uniforms though. As long as everyone wears some kind of school shirt/hat, that enough for me. I always thought all the coaches being fashion coordinated was kind of cheesy actually. Kind of like the beer commercial were the guy and his wife show up to the barbeque in matching outfits, and the giant beer can falls on him.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jul 25, 2008 10:08:43 GMT -6
I like a head coach who expects these things and then insists upon them and lives them himself. If he doesn't like cussing- he doesn't cuss. If he wants loyalty he models loyalty. If he wants a dress code he finds a way to supply the gear. I have heard coaches cuss during my long career and choose to not do so myself (in front of the kids). Cussing is a tale of two coaches though. Some coaches cuss kids, some coaches simply cuss in front of them. Neither is good- one is the lesser of two evils.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 25, 2008 11:01:32 GMT -6
The behaviors you refer to should mostly be addressed during the hiring process and if a coach should run afoul of one of them, the HC should address it right away. The old line of "Inspect what you Expect" comes to mind, whether its kids or coaches. As far as wearing the same uniform, our policy is to wear something from our school at practice but on game night, we are all in the same uniform just like our players are in the same uniform.
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Post by 19delta on Jul 25, 2008 11:41:22 GMT -6
Is it unreasonable to expect staff to: 1. not swear infront of the kids - No. Although it may be tough to keep a reign on that, a word here or there I don't think is so bad, but if it is just part of their speech pattern, that's a problem. Used to work for a guy who had the ability to use the "F-bomb" as a noun, adjective, and verb, often collectively in the same sentence. Guy had a mouth that would make a sailor wince... I have on occasion let one fly but I try to use the same language on the football field that I use in the classroom. I don't think this is that big of a deal. Shorts and a t-shirt are appropriate. If you have team colors and team shirts, that is a bonus, but I don't think it is a big deal if a coach doesn't come to practice wearing them. I agree...hard to convince the kids they have to be there if the coaches don't show up to stuff. I can't stand the guys who don't attend and meetings in the offseason but then bitch and moan about any changes that were implemented. If your not there, your opinion doesn't count. I always stand behind the team when the coach is addressing the players. When I am speaking, I don't like people standing behind me, so I won't do it to the head coach. I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard several people tell a story about Pete Carroll and how he actually has his COACHES videotaped during practice to make sure that they are doing things the "program way". I don't think I would ever go to that extreme, but I think it illustrates the point (if it is true) that the GOOD head coaches have a vision that they expect their assistants to adopt.
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Post by airman on Jul 25, 2008 14:35:52 GMT -6
I believe coaches should all be on the same page. They should present a image of unity. now there may be disagreements but they should be taken up in private. just like I believe if you have a problem on the field you bring the player over, discuss it with him in private and then if he wants to share it with his teammates that is his choice. the other option is to do it in private after practice. I do not believe you berate a player or coach in public.
I believe an area where a lot of coaches take it for granted is the expectations or job detail list. I believe before you hire a guy you must have a list of expectations that he knows ahead of time he must meet. things like what is proper coaching dress, what meetings are mandatory, what his jobs are. I am a firm believer if you have assistants you have to teach them and deligate responsbility to them. while the head coach is improtant the assistants must feel a reason to buy into the head coaches vision. they must have a shared reponsibility. nothing worse then a head coach who is large and incharge of everything. the assistants just stand around and that is when the complaining starts. idole hands are the devils workshop.
what would the staff be expected to stand behind the head coach in huddles? are you talking end of the day huddle where the head coach should be in the middle giving the final talk, I can accept that.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 25, 2008 15:10:34 GMT -6
I would lay the things you described down as LAW, before the season ever begins. Have a staff handbook made that includes behavioral expectations along with the playbook. Put it in writing and make it very clear.
If you aren't in the position to hire and fire and you are dealing with these things, I'd start looking for another HC job. Nothing
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 25, 2008 17:52:15 GMT -6
I might also add that as far as the uniform thing is going, I think that should only apply to game situations or official functions such as team meals, banquets, etc.
I don't care what you wear to practice as long as it's not ripped or tasteless (beer shirts, naked chick shirts, etc).
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Post by fatkicker on Jul 25, 2008 19:19:56 GMT -6
i like the staff to dress the same at practice.......but the header should be ready to buy the staff enough t-shirts and shorts to last at least a week........it's unreasonable to ask a coach to wash his clothes every night or wear nasty ones just to look the same......
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 25, 2008 22:53:23 GMT -6
I've never understood the importance of looking the same for practice. Just don't get it.
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Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 25, 2008 23:30:42 GMT -6
I think of it as a professional statement. Now I would never expect a coach to go and make that happen on thier own. As a HC I bought all my guys stuff. As an AC I made sure I owned 5 team shirts that I wore every day. To me its also a sign of respect to the kids. Here I am practicing what I preach, teamwork and uniformity.
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Post by phantom on Jul 26, 2008 5:55:33 GMT -6
Practice gear or game gear? We all have team gear and that's what we'll wear but we don't have time to coordinate outfits. We'll all be wearing team stuff but nobody cares what team gear that the other guy is going to wear.
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creid
Sophomore Member
Posts: 150
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Post by creid on Jul 26, 2008 7:20:25 GMT -6
Is it unreasonable to expect staff to not swear, infront of the kids
No, coaches and athletes are not allowed to swear.
, wear team uniforms,
Game day, shirt and tie...practice, nothing required however, we wear t-shirts with school logos or of colleges where former players have continued their careers and we all have school sweatshirts and jackets for cold weather.
attend all practices and meetings,
This is one that I have changed my thoughts about. I learned from a coach (at the D-III college level), who is an unbelievable disciplinarian that these things depend on coaches situations. I work at a boarding school, our basketball coach who coaches the QBs works in admissions, there are times that he has to travel for work and cannot be at practice or will have a family visiting campus that he will have to spend time with, he has also missed because he needed to bring one of the basketball players. He always communicates clearly, and I know when he won't be there so I can plan for it and we let the kids on the team know where he is, so they understand. On the positive side the football program gets a coach who sets a great example of what a person who has his priorities of life in order (faith, family, work) and he is involved in the kids lives. We also have the situation that not everybody can be at all meetings because of dorm and responsibilities....not everyone can be at the meeting because then there would be some unsupervised dorms. Out of season meetings are done by position or by small groups....much more productive....the DT's coach does not need to sit in on the WR meeting, but he is welcome to attend.
stand behind the HC during team huddles
Every coach has a job to do during team. We practice off a script and the plays are numbered, so if we go off script to rerun a play we just call out the number. Every coach has responsibilities during team....so if someone is hanging over my shoulder, they are not doing their job.
and never contradict each other infront of the kids?
An absolute.
I worked for one hard-#$@ Coach my first year, who really drove all these things home... but he was ancient then and dead now. Is that era over?
No....the first full staff coaches meeting of the year....everybody attends and we go over the expectations of the staff and of the athletes. It is written out and we go through every point, before we talk about football or about the kids. There are no gray areas.
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Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 28, 2008 7:21:33 GMT -6
Classic Guny Highway!
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Post by coachcb on Jul 28, 2008 10:24:04 GMT -6
Is it unreasonable to expect staff to not swear, infront of the kids No, coaches and athletes are not allowed to swear.Watching your mouth is obvious; not just because of the poor example it sets, but because you need to CYA. There are parents out there that are going to be understandably upset if you're swearing around their kids. As a coach, I want to limit the amount of b.s. I have to put up with; parents complaining about my language falls under this category.
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1/11th
Sophomore Member
Posts: 138
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Post by 1/11th on Aug 7, 2008 10:41:21 GMT -6
I am an assistant and the DC. I have done all this stuff we are talking about for our HC, but last night something happened that I am just stewing over. Was explaining route recognition and the HC completely spoke over me and then made statements in front of the players that was down right disrespectful (questioning coaching abilities, claiming that if a coach is not using the proper wording then correct him, etc.).
Has anyone else ever experieced anything like this and what do you think I should do? I know I am a young coach and learning the job. We all take lumps from our mentors and people above us, but I just feel absolutely disrespected.
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Post by coachnichols on Aug 7, 2008 11:56:29 GMT -6
I am an assistant and the DC. I have done all this stuff we are talking about for our HC, but last night something happened that I am just stewing over. Was explaining route recognition and the HC completely spoke over me and then made statements in front of the players that was down right disrespectful (questioning coaching abilities, claiming that if a coach is not using the proper wording then correct him, etc.). Has anyone else ever experieced anything like this and what do you think I should do? I know I am a young coach and learning the job. We all take lumps from our mentors and people above us, but I just feel absolutely disrespected. I would for sure talk to the HC about this in closed quarters. Just because you are young doesn't mean he can act like a no class jerk.
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Post by eaglefbcoach1 on Aug 7, 2008 19:19:42 GMT -6
If this is a rare occasion, I would just let it drop. We have all had the situation where we are frustrated or upset about something and an unrelated situation arises that sets us off. That very well could be your situation. If you are an assistant for a period of years it will happen to you occasionally. I know it has happened to me more than a few times. If I am coaching the situation correctly, then I just chalk it up to "it was my time in the barrel". Don't sweat it and keep coaching your butt off.
If this is your HC's method of correcting a coaching error and he makes this type of outburst a habit, then you coach for this season and find work somewhere else. But, I still would not make a big deal out of it. If you get the reputation as being "thin skinned", it can cause a problem for you later in your coaching career. We are all men and sometimes we say stupid things. Just my opinion!
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1/11th
Sophomore Member
Posts: 138
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Post by 1/11th on Aug 8, 2008 11:36:44 GMT -6
Thanks for your advice!
Already old news and moving on. He apologized in our next conversation. Forgive and don't forget. Your right about the thin skin and if you want your players to be thick skinned willing to endure through any adversity then you have to as well. As they say in Goodfellas "every now and then you gotta take a beating".
Thanks again!
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Post by 19delta on Aug 8, 2008 11:58:02 GMT -6
I used to work for a guy who was the walking embodiment of the passive-aggressive personality. He would pull the kind of stuff that jreilly talked about. I would just kind of roll my eyes to myself and wait for him to move on.
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Post by CoachCP on Aug 8, 2008 12:54:04 GMT -6
We had a coach for a youth spring league who was very inexperienced and did this stuff quite often.
Luckily, I wasn't the target for the criticism. But the 2nd time he did it, the other coach got angry. Now, we are all young coaches. I have the most experience of the 3 of us. I told them both (HC and DL coach), "There is a time and a place for this coaches. Its not right here, right now, in a game, right infront of the kids." They both agreed and stopped. No one seem insulted by that. But I think they both know I have the most experience and I am the coolest under pressure out of the 2 (they are both high energy. I use energy, but I am not over the top) and they both respected it and understood why I said it without a problem.
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Post by liberalhater on Aug 9, 2008 8:07:09 GMT -6
Every kid is a winner in our program. Everybody gets equal playing time. No scoreboards. Participation staff or player is optional.
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