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Post by justryn2 on Jul 11, 2008 15:23:26 GMT -6
Coaches, my son is entering his sophomore year in HS. Last year, on his Freshman team, there were over 50 players. I just found out that not even 25 of those are returning to play this year. That Freshman team was not even remotely competitive; they did not win a single game nor did they finish one within 30 points of their opponent. But, is this retention rate typical?
My son played youth football (where I still coach). But, a lot of those freshmen were playing football for the first time. Maybe there were simply that many that tried it, didn't like and won't play again. I'm just trying to find out if it is typical high school programs to see fewer than half of the freshman football team return for their sophomore year.
Thanks!
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Post by superpower on Jul 11, 2008 15:35:22 GMT -6
That may be typical at a big school, but at our small school we are lucky to get 12 freshmen out each fall. However, at least 10 of those will likely still be with us as seniors.
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Post by carookie on Jul 11, 2008 16:17:06 GMT -6
I think your story is fairly typical; at least from where I've been. I think that the number is somewhat high (I think where Ive been 66% retention is about right on) but nothing too bad.
Its like you said most of these kids didn't play football before their frosh season, but even if they did there are lots of kids who quit. Get caught up in HS life, not willing to put in the work, don't have the football mentality.
I wouldnt worry too much about it, if they have 20 kids playing by their sr. year it'll be enough to compete with mid level schools (20 srs + 20 Jr/Soph is a 40 man squad)
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Post by coachsky on Jul 11, 2008 17:42:13 GMT -6
Our Freshman numbers are similar but our drop off is not quite as extensive. We typically have 45-55 Freshman. We usually get around 30-35 Sophomores.
I think the retention rate from Freshman to Sophomore is related to :
1. Fear of playing with older kids. Our Freshman don't play or practice with Varsity players, our Sophs do. There are some kids that don't grow and don't want to play with 250 lb athletes; in most cases they are making a good call.
2. Program Success. If you have a successful varsity they'll want to stay involved. If they had a losing season as Freshman (as your kid did) you will also see drop off.
3. I think it helps to have Sophomore games. IF they know they are going to strap it up vs. kids their age, they are more likely to hang on and hope to develop into a varsity player by their Jr or Sr. year.
A 50% drop off is pretty big. Kids want a positive experience, adults that care about them as people, the want to achieve at a high level. It's pretty simple.
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Post by davecisar on Jul 11, 2008 17:46:16 GMT -6
At the youth level retention rates are parallel to the success the individual and team has, even as 7th-8th graders. Those numbers dont surprise me one iota for a grade higher.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Jul 11, 2008 17:49:09 GMT -6
Large school - 3000 enrl. We usually get 100+ frosh A/B/C teams; 50 soph/JV; 75 varsity Jr's & Srs. I coached NCAA DIII & it was the same type of numbers - we tried to recruit 35-40 frosh & 4 years later usually that group ended with 10-15 seniors. I know DIA is similar as well.
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chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Jul 11, 2008 21:11:51 GMT -6
How about academic ineligibilities after the freshman year? Anyone lose a lot of kids due to issues in the classroom?
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burn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 181
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Post by burn on Jul 11, 2008 22:29:07 GMT -6
Chuff,
We lose kids to sports specialization, academics, gangs, behavior, and disenfranchised with the sport of football (lazy kids). Last year started with 55 and ended the year with 33. JV team this year 37.
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Post by kcbazooka on Jul 12, 2008 8:04:19 GMT -6
We lose more kids between their 8th and 9th more than frosh to soph.
I think our kids are getting burned out of football with our youth programs. They start in the 2nd grade and have more games than our varsity - they start their practices in early august and go to november for the "choice" teams.
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MaineManiac
Junior Member
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Posts: 311
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Post by MaineManiac on Jul 12, 2008 9:44:23 GMT -6
Similar response as to the others. We had 27 kids last year. It looks like 16 will return. I think it is in grade 9 where kids realize their place in the program. If kids feel like there isn't a varsity spot for them down the road, this is where they pack it in. Our key is making sure that we have a 100% return rate of those players we know will contribute.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 12, 2008 17:23:24 GMT -6
I think the retention rate from Freshman to Sophomore is related to : 3. I think it helps to have Sophomore games. IF they know they are going to strap it up vs. kids their age, they are more likely to hang on and hope to develop into a varsity player by their Jr or Sr. year. I agree with this. I think one of the biggest reasons for the attrition is because from 6-14..the kids have probably played in very controlled environments. Always playing against kids close in age, often close in weight (and, if a kid is substantially bigger at those ages, chances are it is NOT very functional size), and with some type of minimum play requirements. After Freshman ball, they are not often playing against kids who are no longer close in age, close in weight, and often the kids who are bigger DO have functional size. And there is no guarantee in playing time. So having a Soph team can help a great deal. |
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Post by justryn2 on Jul 12, 2008 17:50:10 GMT -6
Thanks for all the responses coaches. We actually do have a Sophomore team here. That's what was alarming to me; the Freshman team had 52 players and the Sophomore team will likely have only 25 or so. In fact, I believe that they're talking about moving some incoming Freshmen up to the Sophomore team.
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Post by davecisar on Jul 13, 2008 8:40:35 GMT -6
I see a lot of blame being laid at the foot of others. The varsity isnt great because the youth team wont run the varstiy system is heard in other threads. The youth programs burning kids out etc. Do many HS players really start playing football in the 8th or 9th grade? A rare breed, an exception, most already have their interests developed by then.
I realize there are some wreckless youth coach cowboys out there practicing kids 5 nights a week, and I call them out on that, but fortunately the culture is changing. We only practice 3 nights a week for the first 3 weeks, then 2 nights a week thereafter for just 2 hours or less.
We do very well against the teams that start in July and practice 5 nights a week. We are trying to educate coaches you can have fun, teach great fundamentals, play everyone, practice just 2 nights a week AND compete. Sure it's an uphill battle, but good progress is being made.
Ive preached and taught coaches how to get more done with less time and to make it fun, with zero time set aside for conditioning and very limited scrimmaging, etc even though even that is ridiculed by some at times, even HS coaches.
The poor youth coach practicing 5 nights a week, conditioning kids to death, not playing everyone, not keeping it fun and having very poor results are the guys running kids off, not the rest of us. Huge differences in retention rates from the very well coached and well run programs and the poor ones.
BTW way back when when I played our youth team practiced 5 nights a week and a walk through on Sat Morning and games on Sunday, we staretd at age 8. The HS we fed into often had 200 + kids out for football. Same High School 30 years later now has about 60 kids out for football, with the same number of students.
It's not the youth programs fault IMHO, even the bad ones.
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Post by 19delta on Jul 13, 2008 8:53:35 GMT -6
I think that the biggest reason kids drop out is because it simply isn't fun.
Last year, for example, we had forty 7th grade football players out for junior tackle. However, the coach only played about 15 or so of those kids at a time. Rather than platooning and getting the maximum number of kids on the field and developing players, this guy was focused on winning junior high games. So, 15 kids are getting all of the work while 25 kids are standing around with their thumbs up their a$$es waiting for a 4 TD spread or whatever before they can get in for the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter.
It's the same thing at the freshmen and sophomore level...I really believe that coaches at that level need to do EVERYTHING they can to platoon and to get kids on the field. The thing is, if kids have a great experience in junior high football and in freshmen and sophomore football, they will probably be more willing to stay on for all four years.
Look at it this way...if you have a kid who doesn't play much as a freshmen, is he going to be motivated to get into the weightroom in the offseason and improve himself? Probably not...however, you find a place for that kid to play...you make him feel like he is an important contributer...that's a kid who will probably be willining to invest in developing himself.
I agree that girls, jobs, and other activities all take their toll but, in my experience, it has always been a poor experience with football the previous year that results in kids not coming out.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jul 13, 2008 9:15:12 GMT -6
19Delta has a great point.
Football is a numbers game. I never liked being on the sideline though. It is really cool when you have a full Varsity, JV, C team and Freshmen schedule. Its great to have and A and a B freshman squad.
Trouble is, for a lot of schools, labor, transportation and money.
One problem for a school with none of those troubles is the problem of having too many around when they become upperclassmen- especially when they won't play.
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 16, 2008 22:17:54 GMT -6
My 9th grade team in Ohio went 9-0 with 68 kids on the roster at a D1 school
My Senior year we had only 28 seniors. We lost 40 kids and of those 40 about 15 of them were very good and about 9 would have started.
I think its typical most kids specialize in a certain sport. The kids we lost were Wrestling, Baseball, or basketball only.
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