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Post by coachnicholson on Jun 17, 2008 15:33:01 GMT -6
I would like to have a discussion about how coaches are labeled and exactly what those given labels mean. For example: what exactly is a "player's coach"? or how would you define a coach who is considered to be a "hard-ass"? Furthermore, what is the politically correct way to describe a "hard-ass"?  Stern, but fair? Please post any labels that are given to coaches and explain what they mean. Also, what type of personality makes the best coach? I know this could depend on what kind of kids, parents, school, etc. that you are dealing with as every situations is different. But in general, which personality is the best for coaching? IMO a coach must be able to adapt to any situation. Basically, a coach must know when to be a "player's coach" and when to bring the iron-fist down. A nice even mix of compassion, humor and discipline will make for a likeable but respected coach IMO. |
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Post by wildcat on Jun 17, 2008 17:11:34 GMT -6
I would like to have a discussion about how coaches are labeled and exactly what those given labels mean. For example: what exactly is a "player's coach"? or how would you define a coach who is considered to be a "hard-ass"? Furthermore, what is the politically correct way to describe a "hard-ass"? Stern, but fair? Please post any labels that are given to coaches and explain what they mean. Also, what type of personality makes the best coach? I know this could depend on what kind of kids, parents, school, etc. that you are dealing with as every situations is different. But in general, which personality is the best for coaching? IMO a coach must be able to adapt to any situation. Basically, a coach must know when to be a "player's coach" and when to bring the iron-fist down. A nice even mix of compassion, humor and discipline will make for a likeable but respected coach IMO. - A coach who recognizes that treating kids fairly takes precedence over treating kids equally. Harda$$ - a guy who tries to compensate for his lack of knowledge and leadership ability by yelling the loudest and making vague coaching adjustments like "just hit someone" and "we need to show more hustle". Also, takes a "my way or the highway" approach to discipline because he either doesn't make the effort to build relationships with kids or doesn't know how. Both of these labels describe me at various points in my coaching career... ;D |
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 17, 2008 18:04:17 GMT -6
I know my own players have described me as a harda$$ over the years but it had different meanings for different kids. To some it mean't we were going to work hard, fast, and not back down from anyone. To others it mean't I wasn't going to let them slack off and loaf through practice, and to certain others it mean't I wasn't going to listen to their excuses for being late or absent. Within that same label, I think there was a feeling of consistancy (fairness) among them. Now that I'm done patting myself on the back  I'll let some other harda$$ answer this question. |
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Post by PSS on Jun 17, 2008 20:01:04 GMT -6
I know my own players have described me as a harda$$ over the years but it had different meanings for different kids. To some it mean't we were going to work hard, fast, and not back down from anyone. To others it mean't I wasn't going to let them slack off and loaf through practice, and to certain others it mean't I wasn't going to listen to their excuses for being late or absent. Within that same label, I think there was a feeling of consistancy (fairness) among them. Now that I'm done patting myself on the back I'll let some other harda$$ answer this question. I like to call that "OLD SCHOOL". Not a term that kids will use but we as coaches will use it quite often to describe how we coach, treat our players, and run our programs. When you coach like this and treat your players like this I believe that you teach them more than football. You teach them life lessons that will make them productive citizens. They learn to become great employees, bosses, and more importantly - great fathers. |
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Post by coachnicholson on Jun 17, 2008 20:07:37 GMT -6
You guys bring up a good point which is that there are multiple definitions for each term (label). The meaning behind a label may vary depending who is assigning the label and what their agenda is.
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Post by cmow5 on Jun 17, 2008 20:49:43 GMT -6
Had a kid last year that started the team about a month late for various reasons. It is 8th grade and the first year for the whole staff and the kids really did not know us, but started to get a idea of each of our personalities. While the offense was in this kid and a few others where supposed to be paying attention and learning. The new kid was talking a little not much, but I had a little talk with him and what I expected from him when he was not in on something. I can tell he thought I was a prick without saying it and I replied with "I know I am mean, just ask Mike" Mike was a player standing next to him and Mike replied with " Coach you are mean, but in a cool way". For some reason I loved it. I just smiled and walked away. I thought that was a great compliment from a player. Would that be a label "Mean, but in a cool way"?
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Post by hustleandheart on Jun 17, 2008 21:18:54 GMT -6
haha Cmow that is pretty funny. I've had coaches like that, in fact my favorite Coach who taught me about character and respect more then X's and O's did just that. But I'm sure you teach both equally well.
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Post by casec11 on Jun 18, 2008 6:54:30 GMT -6
Are they labels or descriptions?
Can one person be all of these?
"Coaches Coach" "ball of fire" "Stern but fair" "harda$$" "players coach"
What label does this fall under--- "that's why I love this ni**a, Coach doesn't play that dumb sh!t" (see different thread) ? (by the way DCOHIO, you should make that your tag line)
I think as a coach the only label that should matter is when a kid looks back on his playing days, he labels you as a "good coach" that taught him a lot, whether he was a "harda$$" or "players coach"
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Post by saintrad on Jun 18, 2008 11:26:17 GMT -6
I actually believe this is more of the dumba$$ than a harda$$.
A Harda$$ is one that pushes to gain the maximum potential from their players while also teaching them how, why, and what they are playing the game for. They are not usually the players' best friend (like the dumba$$ coach tries to be) and understands that he doesnt have to be the "cool coach" either. They understand the limits that the players can handle and push them to the edge of that envelope while always having a caring side that wants to see the individual succeed.
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trojan
Junior Member
[F4:wingtcoach.com] [F4:wingtcoachdon]
Posts: 494
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Post by trojan on Jun 18, 2008 18:27:56 GMT -6
Not to get this off track, but many of us are classroom teachers. I'd bet these labels, about all of them, could be applied to teachers. I want to be liked, but work in the classroom and on the field to be the "mean, but in a cool way" man.
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Post by brophy on Jun 19, 2008 7:29:26 GMT -6
I really didn't want to get involved in this thread, to avoid a dogpile effect of gripes, but here are some;
"Glad to be here" Coach: Guy really is a body who is generally positive, but will show up enough to get a polo and get a great view of the game on Friday night. He isn't going to make any waves or express any meaningful dialogue or contribute anything beyond cliches to the players.
"Coach kevin O'Shea"[/u] - the guy so enamored with his own accomplishments, persona, and ego, that it becomes his frame of reference for relating. "This is how I used to do it when I scored 4TDs in one high school game." "when people see ME, they think of winning....they think of _____ HS football. Don't make ME look bad." They teeter on the edge of referring to themselves in the third-person. Players may get loads of technical jargon, but have problems putting it together.
"Coach Stiffler" - very enthusiastic guy who hasn't found his niche amongst adults yet, who is coaching mainly as an extension of the comraderie of alpha males. He pals around with the players, plays video games with them, hangs out with them on the weekends - he is the big, mischievious brother they never had. Players will get a lot of vocal cheerleading, but not much substance.
We all have different styles of relating as people, let alone as coaches. I think in terms of coaching, our duties remain consistent, yet our personal interpretation of the motivations (why we do what we do) are different, which may explain some of the differences.
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Post by wildcat on Jun 19, 2008 8:16:47 GMT -6
What about "Mr. August"? I had the opportunity to work with "Mr. August" about 5 years ago.
This fine specimen only coaches 4 months a year. He shows up the first day of practice and, after equipment is turned in, you won't see this guy in any football capacity for another 8 months because he is too busy playing in softball beer leagues, dart and bowling tournaments, and going back to hang out with younger buddies who are still in college even though he has been out of school for 5 years.
On the extremely rare occasions he does show up to an offseason function, he makes it seem like he is doing everyone else a huge favor by gracing the activity with his presence. This guy also often has a bad attitude and incessently complains about discipline, the weight program, and the offensive and defensive scheme even though this guy never attends any staff meetings to offer suggestions.
Often a very good athlete when he was in high school or college, this guy can't seem to understand why the kids simply don't perform to his lofty expectations.
He is a treat is you ever get the opportunity to work with him...
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Post by davecisar on Jun 19, 2008 8:52:59 GMT -6
I really didn't want to get involved in this thread, to avoid a dogpile effect of gripes, but here are some; "Glad to be here" Coach: Guy really is a body who is generally positive, but will show up enough to get a polo and get a great view of the game on Friday night. He isn't going to make any waves or express any meaningful dialogue or contribute anything beyond cliches to the players. "Coach kevin O'Shea"[/u] - the guy so enamored with his own accomplishments, persona, and ego, that it becomes his frame of reference for relating. "This is how I used to do it when I scored 4TDs in one high school game." "when people see ME, they think of winning....they think of _____ HS football. Don't make ME look bad." They teeter on the edge of referring to themselves in the third-person. Players may get loads of technical jargon, but have problems putting it together. "Coach Stiffler" - very enthusiastic guy who hasn't found his niche amongst adults yet, who is coaching mainly as an extension of the comraderie of alpha males. He pals around with the players, plays video games with them, hangs out with them on the weekends - he is the big, mischievious brother they never had. Players will get a lot of vocal cheerleading, but not much substance. We all have different styles of relating as people, let alone as coaches. I think in terms of coaching, our duties remain consistent, yet our personal interpretation of the motivations (why we do what we do) are different, which may explain some of the differences.[/quote] Coach Stifflers (unique and appropriate description) often also do things like: expose a leg tattoo by wearing one pant leg rolled up, wear do rags or bandanas, use the dude-slang language of the teen players in every day conversation with his peers and the kids in order to "communiate better and connect", embraces and plays up the rebel "please look at me look at me IM different" thing, has not evolved past the teenage fascination of basic bodily function humor and cares more about being liked than they do about being a good role model and coach. |
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Post by schultbear74 on Jun 19, 2008 9:01:12 GMT -6
I have met various and sundry versions of "Mr. August". My version is usually a super citizen who is well placed in the community or a person who doesn't teach but works and takes his vacation during 2 a days.
They are, at times, precisely as you describe, they point out ptoblems, but seldom come up with any solutions.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jun 19, 2008 9:02:43 GMT -6
Coach Stiffler- a better label then GA!
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Post by poweriguy on Jun 19, 2008 10:36:21 GMT -6
I really didn't want to get involved in this thread, to avoid a dogpile effect of gripes, but here are some; "Glad to be here" Coach: Guy really is a body who is generally positive, but will show up enough to get a polo and get a great view of the game on Friday night. He isn't going to make any waves or express any meaningful dialogue or contribute anything beyond cliches to the players. "Coach kevin O'Shea"[/u] - the guy so enamored with his own accomplishments, persona, and ego, that it becomes his frame of reference for relating. "This is how I used to do it when I scored 4TDs in one high school game." "when people see ME, they think of winning....they think of _____ HS football. Don't make ME look bad." They teeter on the edge of referring to themselves in the third-person. Players may get loads of technical jargon, but have problems putting it together. "Coach Stiffler" - very enthusiastic guy who hasn't found his niche amongst adults yet, who is coaching mainly as an extension of the comraderie of alpha males. He pals around with the players, plays video games with them, hangs out with them on the weekends - he is the big, mischievious brother they never had. Players will get a lot of vocal cheerleading, but not much substance. We all have different styles of relating as people, let alone as coaches. I think in terms of coaching, our duties remain consistent, yet our personal interpretation of the motivations (why we do what we do) are different, which may explain some of the differences.[/quote] Level 10 powerup to Brophy for the Little Giants/Kevin O'Shea reference. |
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Post by coachmoore42 on Jun 19, 2008 21:17:18 GMT -6
Round of applause to Brophy and Wildcat for those labels.
I have coached with too many "Mr. August's" and a couple of "Glad to be here guys". If I had to take one it would be the "Glad" guy. At least he will show up in the off-season and set a good example for the kids.
I am a recovering Coach Stiffler, although nowhere near the description given by davecisar (I haven't coached with any of those, but I've met them). I guess that's what you're likely to get from a guy who starts coaching at 18. I'm making the vocal cheerleading have some substinance. And I've noticed the more I learn, the better I coach at practice, and the less I have to say come gametime.
As a contribution to the topic, I would like to add the "Smooth Talker." He has everyone fooled from Day 1. This guy tells you how wonderful the program will be and comes up with grand plans which get everyone's hopes up. You wait and wait for him to unleash a plan...nothing happens. He eliminates successful things to instutute his new things, but the void is never filled. The ideas are replaced by new grand ones which also never see the light of day. The coaches are usually the first to figure him out and get out while the gettin's good. The cycle continues until the parents or administrators figure out he's full of it, and run him out of town.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jun 19, 2008 22:13:35 GMT -6
How about the "when I was at Washburn" we did thus and so Coach. A guy who is constantly lecturing others with past glories (Mea Culpa).
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Post by throwandrun on Jun 20, 2008 5:13:44 GMT -6
I have a couple more in terms of assistants:
The "I watched a video and read a book" coach who, despite having only a few years experience, suddenly knows everything there is to know about running a program, even though they never did themselves. This coach has plenty of "great ideas" and an idealistic view of the way a program "should" run, but doesn't want to do anything to help you realize YOUR vision. They also tell you about how other schools run things and strategies that make them successful, but fail to realize that your school might be different than what they read about or where their buddies coach.
Another is the "It's not my job" coach. This coach reminds you about what his job is and isn't, even though it is really up to you to decide that. They complain about how your school doesn't have any money to buy them stuff, but don't want to take part in any fundraising. They always have something going on when it comes to off the field stuff. They complain about your school not having any athletes, but do not want to participate in any youth events you want to do. They complain about other coaches when you give them a list of duties. These coaches usually like to have the "door is always open approach" to bring up problems, but when you do it to them, they are offended and can't believe you brought it up. These coaches usually try to make you feel bad about all the stuff THEY are doing to help your program.
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Post by revtaz on Jun 20, 2008 6:41:16 GMT -6
"Fan with a Whistle" (Painus Buttus)- Watches the local NFL team and says "Hey, why don't we run that play where (insert QB's Name) throws to (WR's name) from (Local NFL team). That works all the time." Watches a little bit too much Jaworski and NFL netowrk and thinks he can win because he saw Belichek do it.
"Dad With a Whistle" (Annoyus Maximus)- Knows something about football, but decides to relegate himself to fan with whistle suggestions. Comes in with his kid and leaves with him too. Can become Annoyus Supremus when junior is not as good a player as he thinks he is.
"The Haunt" (Ghostus Lombardium) - Actually not a coach, but member of Booster Club. Couldn't actually get on the staff, so decided to take over the Booster Club to try and be a "Surrogate" Coach. Does well for the team in terms of fundraising, but tries to quietly coach the kids on the sideline during the game with things like "You should really tackle better."
"The Too Much Coach" (Loudus Buttus) - Came from another program and believes he is right. Has a sense of superiority over the staff because he was on a winning program so therefore his opinion, however wrong it may be, should be the only one taken.
Just a few for you gents.
Taz
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Post by cmow5 on Jun 20, 2008 8:53:27 GMT -6
haven't any of you guys worked with some good coaches. Lets hear some "Labels" about good coaches or coaches that are very valuable to the program.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Jun 20, 2008 10:44:59 GMT -6
Okay, here's my description of the best coach I have worked with. Let's call him "The 12 Monther[/u]." Not only is he the head football coach, but he also coaches the basketball team and a spring sport (usually track, but he did soccer). He is the best coach the school has, so he coaches everything possible. He keeps an eye on the guys all year long, because they are on one of his teams all year long. He isn't afraid of spending some time in the summer because he knows what it takes to win. He probably even picks up a few players to make sure that they get there. He is essentially the "anti-Mr. August."
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Post by revtaz on Jun 20, 2008 10:49:04 GMT -6
ONe of the best coaches I have ever coached with we will call:
"Mr. Accountable" (Accountus Primus) - He holds you accountable for every suggestion you make. This in turn forces you to learn why you want to do something, not just because you are bored.
Taz
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Post by talexander on Jun 22, 2008 6:00:35 GMT -6
Good label: The "I care about the program coach" The guy that comes to weight training in the off-season AND is harder on the kids than you. The guy that offers good quality suggestions and helps you get them done, but doesn't get offended when you don't use them. He helps you look good, works hard, and realizes that establishing a program is a year round effort. He stays even though there isn't much talent or football smart kids, although there are other more established programs out there.
He is mature enough to talk out and put behind issues that come up out of frustration of a new program which lead to disagreements. HE understands that you can be a grumpy pain in the ass at times and works through it . He doesn't "know it all" even though very capable so he spends his off-season getting better through study. He defends the program, is loyal, and is always there when it comes to PR or social events that are a pain in the ass--even though the rest of the staff suddenly comes up with excuse diarrhea. He coaches through problems, but hates to lose so is always coaching his ass off even though things seem hopeless. . ..
Although I have had many of the aforementioned bad coaches on my staff, I am privileged to have a gem as described... .He is my D coordinator. I think he goes by D-man on here
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coachmpope
Sophomore Member
"QUIT TALKIN...LET'S PLAY BALL!"
Posts: 145
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Post by coachmpope on Jun 23, 2008 10:20:02 GMT -6
WITH ALL OF THESE JOB OPPORTUNIES THAT SEEM TO BE OPENING EVERY DAY IN THIS NATION, I THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE WHAT I THINK MAKES A GOOD COACH. WE NEED TO ALL THINK OF THIS WHEN WE PRAISE, DESTROY, CRITICIZE OR DEMEAN OUR FINE COACHES AND LEARN TO APPRECIATE WHAT THEY DO EVERY DAY.
COACH MIIKE POPE
WHAT MAKES A GOOD COACH?
It is my belief that a good coach is one that is dedicated to his GOD, family, and team, spends his time with kids he learns to know, teach to grow and learns to love as his own. One that can learn from them as much as he expects them to learn from him. One that can overcome adversity at any givin time, that can endure critisim when things get tough, be objective in questionable times, and still keep the composure needed to take his kids without question and look them in the eyes and call them champions no matter the cost when the day is done. One that will be honest to his team as he expects them to be with him. Coaches that will stick up for a kid in trouble do the best he can to right the wrongs within his god givin ability.
It may also be he that sheds a little blood in the trenches with his troops will also be considered a good coach meaning selling out to your team with all the knowledge, work and effort it takes to play this game.
We are not only coaches we are leaders of a young band of brothers that can't be defeated, unless we choose to allow them give up or quit. That is for all coaches we are at the beckoned call of these youth to lead them where we dare to toreador have once walked.
Don't mean to sound military here but we are training these kids for a war on the gridiron and WE damm sure better do our best. If we don't the other good coaches are gonna kick it. So at the end of the season as you look around at your kids cheering after the victory or crying because of defeat, that one kid will come to you and say thanks coach for teaching me to play, then you know your a great coach.
It may not happen all the time and may not be the most talented kids that do this but keep in mind that one kid that doesn't have a great ability to be the show stopper, may be the one that is grateful for the time you took to be a part of his life. These are what I would say are the makings of a good coach.
I say this from my experience as a coach of 34 yrs, I have felt like quitting during adversity during a bad season, in my own suffering with personal illnesses, and simply not following my LORD the way I should have. I still coach because I have had on different occasions in that 34 yrs. ,several kids come to me and say Thank you coach for being there for me. That is why I still coach not to mention my wife hates me being at home during football season because I'm a grouch! I love football, the kids, and the families I meet most of all, I feel good when I see the smile on a kid’s face when he overcomes his fear.
I SAW SOMETHING LIKE THIS A FEW YEARS BACK AND ADJUSTED IT TOMY SITUATION. I HAVE COACHED RICH AND POOR KIDS, SMART AND NOT-SO-SMART KIDS, MILITARY KIDS, PREPPY KIDS AND COUNTRY KIDS AND I HAVE FOUND ONE COMMON THING ABOUT ALL OF THEM. IF YHEY BELIEVE IN YOU AND TRUST YOU ...THEN YOU HAVE MORE SUCESS COACHING THEM. I QUESS TO SUM ME UP....YOU WOULD SAY I LOVE MY KIDS UNCONDITIONALLY.
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Post by justryn2 on Jun 23, 2008 13:20:53 GMT -6
How about Coach Drill Sargent; the guy that, even though he has never been in the military himself, has seen enough Army movies to know how it works. He refers to his players as "girls" or "maggots", yells constantly throughout practice and makes an art form of belittling everyone. Whenever a player makes a mistake it is a personal affront to Coach Drill Sargent. This guy then blames "lack of talent and commitment" when his team finishes 2 - 8.
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Post by robinhood on Jun 23, 2008 13:31:04 GMT -6
Brophy:
How did you come up with the Kevin O'Shea name for this description?
I know a Kevin O'Shea who coaches in Indiana, and he doesn't fit your label, in my opinion.
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Post by talexander on Jun 24, 2008 22:58:41 GMT -6
robinhood..... I think it is from the movie "Little Giants".
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Post by robinhood on Jun 25, 2008 9:41:16 GMT -6
I must not have seen that movie.
Strange isn't it, that there would be two different references to a football coach named Kevin O'Shea from two such divergent sources.
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Stern, but fair? 
I'll let some other harda$$ answer this question. 
