|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jun 4, 2008 11:21:41 GMT -6
I'll try and keep this short.
Our current freshmen had 15 kids out last year. 1 played varsity. So they played their freshman games with 14 kids. Needless to say, they were defeated on the season giving up over 30 points/game.
Since last season many of the kids on that team have decided that instead of lifting and getting better so they can win at the varsity level--there is some talent, just not numbers and they are a team with all linemen--that it would just be better to quit football.
We are down to 8 sophomores for next year, 2 will be varsity starters.
So, that leaves us with a few issues.
#1. What do we do with our JV team?
#1A. Do we bring up freshmen to field a team? Many freshmen aren't physically ready for this level of play. Also, by doing so those kids lose a day of drills and skill work that will make them better in the long run.
#1B. Do we field the team with juniors and sophomores? Then we don't have enough at the varsity level to get a quality practice in that day. We could do some film, lifting, and basic skill work, but very little in terms of team or 1/2 line work
#2. How do you convince kids that they will win at the varsity level when all they've ever done is lost? Once we are able to combine grades on the varsity level we are able to be pretty competitive, but we always suck on JV and freshman levels.
#3. I feel very strongly that I shouldn't lower my standards to keep kids out for football. But if kids are quitting to the point that we can't field 3 teams what do you do?
We are a school of 450 enrollment.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by k on Jun 4, 2008 11:26:18 GMT -6
I'm of the opinion that they learn more from the game than from practice anyway.
I had freshman that played in three games a week. They'd get reps in the varsity game, start the JV and Freshman games.
Our freshmen play in both the JV and Freshman games always.
|
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Jun 4, 2008 11:35:24 GMT -6
In California they can't play 2 games in a week... I HATE IT!
We have an enrollment of 800 and we don't have a freshman team... Just JV and Varsity. Our JV team last year was about 70% freshman and 30% sophomores.
Puts us at a huge disadvantage, because many of the teams we face in JV have much larger % of Sophs and even juniors playing JV if they have good numbers out... It can get discouraging, but we try to teach the kids that the whole point is to get better and try to prepare for varsity. There are some kids who get discouraged and wanna quit, so we have to play beggar a little bit.
Can't believe you have 3 levels with an enrollment that small.
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldogoption on Jun 4, 2008 11:41:24 GMT -6
Coach,
That is a tough dilemma that many folks have these days. Participation numbers are an issue at many schools in many sports. Don't beat yourself up over it....it happens.
IMO
#1. Do NOT make the freshman play JV. Most of them aren't ready for it.
#1A. You have to try and get three teams out of 2 teams worth of kids. Its hard. Some of your juniors have to play down to JV. A few Frosh may have to play up to JV. Juggling practice is an issue. And an injury or two will make it even harder. We practice 10-12 so it makes it easy for our juniors to play down.
OR you could cancel the JV season. BUT then you deal with psyches........some kids get moved up and some moved down....why is he better than me??? kids are kids
#2. You have to get the kids to buy into YOU. Make your offseason program one with rewards. They can WIN at that and hopefully the wins will come later on the field. Kids don't want to lift weights. Its not natural. Sell it. They aren't intrinsically motivated (90% aren't). Every program fights it, not just you and me.
#3. You may have to lower your standards. A team is better than no team. No team does LOTS of damage. Lowering your standards may just mean the expectations for the offseason decrease or go away. Its a very hard pill to swallow, but again a team is better than no team. It sucks too because your pride gets hurt. I know.
Coach, we are a school of 300. I took over three years ago after a HORRENDOUS 10 year cycle. I've been living your pain for the last three years. This year looks good for us.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachbdud on Jun 4, 2008 11:44:03 GMT -6
had a similar situation 2 years ago, we just canceled the JV season. freshman played freshman everyone else was on varsity, a few sophomores didnt play because they were scared but overall it worked out well, there was a lot of talent in that class so the guys got a lot better and many of them will be 3 year starters this upcoming season
|
|
|
|
Post by towtheline on Jun 4, 2008 12:00:46 GMT -6
with a team like you are describing the best thing you could possibly do is build for the future. What I would do is cancel the frosh season and throw them into the fire of a JV game. In my opinion kids learn WAY more in games than in practice. Get them out of their comfort zone, thats the only way to get better. I'm not saying to completely abandon this season but the main focus must be laying a foundation to build on. Try to get your 7th and 8th grade teams excited about playing football for you the next few years. Make sure that your volunteer youth coaches teach them the correct fundamentals of football and get them to smash out the natural fear of contact.
|
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jun 4, 2008 12:16:05 GMT -6
#3. You may have to lower your standards. A team is better than no team. No team does LOTS of damage. Lowering your standards may just mean the expectations for the offseason decrease or go away. Its a very hard pill to swallow, but again a team is better than no team. It sucks too because your pride gets hurt. I know. Coach, we are a school of 300. I took over three years ago after a HORRENDOUS 10 year cycle. I've been living your pain for the last three years. This year looks good for us. But are two 0-7 teams better than 1 3-4 or 4-3 team? If we cancel freshmen then they play JV with a mix of sophomores and some juniors. That team could do ok. If we cancel JV then freshmen will likely go 0-7 or 1-6 (there are 2 true linemen of the 15 kids but the skilled kids aren't bad). But, the leftover sophomores would get some PT on varsity. We'll win enough to be able to get them in some games or onto special teams. I appreciate all the input. I took over 3 years ago and we're working our way out of the basement. We've averaged 6 wins/year the last 3 years as opposed to 3/year the 5 years previous. I don't want to go back the way things were by not making it abundantly clear that if a kid expects to play then I expect him to lift. |
|
|
|
Post by bulldogoption on Jun 4, 2008 12:48:14 GMT -6
Bear---
YOu didn't give the details of your to be frosh...........I was assuming your to be frosh could compete.
Two bad classes with numbers back to back is hard to deal with. Most programs deal with the occasional bad class and are able to work thru it. Two back to back is more difficult.
I would be afraid to put freshman on the same field with juniors practice or game.
Can you get some lineman from teh 6 soph left over to play freshman? If you can then I would cancel teh JV. If you can't then cancel the frosh season.
Tough situation. Again, many schools going thru this.
Perspective.....3 wins/year is not the basement. No conf wins in 10 years is the basement.... ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by bluecrazy on Jun 5, 2008 6:10:04 GMT -6
I fell your pain also. We have to Field a varsity team only. That is freshmen - seniors. Needless to say, getting the freshman to play is very hard!! We are a school of about 130 kids.
If I was in your shoes, I would cancel freshmen, and play a J.V. schedule with freshmen and sophomores. This way you also get to keep a good eye on the program. You can practice J.V. Varsity together, while running drills with a J.V. group, and a varsity group.
Build for the future!
|
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jun 5, 2008 6:31:43 GMT -6
Thanks for the input.
My biggest concern about cancelling freshmen and playing JV is the kids who aren't physically ready or tough enough having to compete against older kids. It is possible that a freshman is 14 and playing against a JV junior who is 17. That's a big difference.
I asked some kids yesterday what they would like to see, just to gauge their thought process. I was surprised to hear that they wanted to cancel JV ball and play varsity with the opportunity to play in some freshman games. This came with the understanding that in JV they would probably play all the time, but at the varsity level it would be difficult to get on the field.
|
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jun 6, 2008 5:36:27 GMT -6
I agree with talexander on many fronts. But, it's tough to meet any success when your expecations churn out only 6 kids/grade level. That is my fear. I won't change the way I do things. But, if this trend continues I may have to realize that after 6 years myself and this community are not the right fit.
|
|
|
|
Post by olinecoach61 on Jun 6, 2008 7:01:09 GMT -6
I would be hesitant to play sophomores on the freshman team, it doesn't seem ethical to me. Your worried about your freshman playing up and getting hurt, but you would be doing the same to your opponents.
|
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jun 6, 2008 7:20:22 GMT -6
I would be hesitant to play sophomores on the freshman team, it doesn't seem ethical to me. Your worried about your freshman playing up and getting hurt, but you would be doing the same to your opponents. It's a conference agreement that if we need to do so to field a team then that is ok. There is a difference between playing your lowest sophomores against freshmen, and playing all of your freshman against sophomores and possibly juniors. I'm also concerned about freshmen that play up and aren't ready for that level of contact or speed of game. |
|
|
|
Post by olinecoach61 on Jun 6, 2008 7:53:15 GMT -6
If your league oks it, than I have no issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 6, 2008 8:19:40 GMT -6
Many HS coaches understand that if your frosh team goes o-fer, the next season a bunch never come back to play. Ive coached kids 1-9th grade and no matter how much fun they are having and relationships theyve made etc, if they are consistently getting blown out, they arent coming back in large numbers. Im no HS coach but IMHO you have to figure out a solution that allows whoever you have suited up a reasonable chance at playing on a competitive team.
THAT HAPPENS at the youth level as well, retention rates over the long haul are related to the teams competitiveness. Dont beat up the youth coach whose teams are coached well, the kids are playing, having fun and are competitive, it helps the kids stay engaged.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachsky on Jun 6, 2008 8:50:05 GMT -6
Cancel your JV season. Field a Freshman team. Put them in a situation to be successful.
On Mondays, let your Juniors and Sophomores that did not get a ton of playing time on Varsity have a controlled scrimmage. Make it fun for them, but hold them accountable for executing.
Kids want to be a part of "something". It helps if that "something" is winning, but that's not the only thing. It's up to you, as head coach to generate excitement, to create that "something", to make kids want to be a part of your program.
|
|
|
|
Post by kurtbryan on Jun 6, 2008 9:59:54 GMT -6
The level of your current problem is tough, but many good suggestions above listed.
Teams we are working with have similar issues, so be Flexible, look at all approaches and options.
KB
|
|
|
|
Post by 1bignasty on Jun 6, 2008 20:14:38 GMT -6
Get real. 9th graders are not ready for JV? Gimme a break. Many freshmen play varsity in our state and do so very well. Not enough difference in a freshman and soph. to stress over. Just have a JV team, scrap the freshman team and strap it on and go play ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by los on Jun 6, 2008 20:49:46 GMT -6
I kinda agree with bignasty.......these little 1a schools around here, for the most part, only had 3 levels of play.....7th/8th grade......B-team......Varsity. The B-team kids were generally 9th graders and older kids that didn't start on the varsity......so in reality, the upper classmen on the team, weren't that awesome, or they'd be playing on friday night, rather than thursday afternoons?.....the important thing is they all got playing time/experience  |
|
|
|
Post by bulldogoption on Jun 7, 2008 19:51:57 GMT -6
Get real. 9th graders are not ready for JV? Gimme a break. Many freshmen play varsity in our state and do so very well. Not enough difference in a freshman and soph. to stress over. Just have a JV team, scrap the freshman team and strap it on and go play ball. This isn't basketball or baseball or track. The contact of football makes it a huge difference. Even in something like wrestling, a frosh may face a junior/senior but the weights are similar and there are no violent collisions. Football is completely different, IMO. It seems that beardc is worried about freshman playing against stud sophomores or even juniors playing down, NOT that freshman on average can't compete against sophomores. "Strap it up and play ball" will make the slow maturing freshman dislike football. Then his numbers may get even worse. I seldom see stud players quit playing because they get bored being so successful, which may happen if he fields a freshman team or some of his sophomores play down. I've seen MANY kids get turned off by being put on a field with physically superior kids, which may happen if he puts his frosh against stud sophomores and juniors. In my experience, 10 years with high schools between 200 -1000 kids, I've never seen a freshman playing varsity. I've only heard about a couple and they were big time college/pro guys in the end. I've heard about hundreds of freshman playing varsity basketball, baseball, track and wrestling. Have you used this philosophy before and had it pay off? |
|
|
|
Post by towtheline on Jun 7, 2008 20:01:21 GMT -6
didn't mean to post this
|
|
|
|
Post by 1bignasty on Jun 7, 2008 21:41:40 GMT -6
I have seen it work everywhere I have ever been. I have been coaching for over 20 years and have never had a Freshman team. Some schools were large and some were not. I guess if we had 140 kids in the program we may have had a 9th grade team. I have had several Freshmen play varsity for us and excel as have many other schools that I know of. As for not being able to withstand hitting with Sophomores? I would have to question if they should be playing football. Any Junior who needs to play JV is not going to help you on the varsity as a senior anyway. Sounds more like rec ball, making sure all get to play. I am not saying cut the Juniors who can't make the varsity, but what are you gaining by playing them on the JV? Keep them up and find a role for them. Maybe it is on the PAT team or KO Return... Anyway I would be really worried about freshmen being physically incapable of playing with kids one year older than them. I bet everyone gets a trophy too,lol
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdowng on Jun 7, 2008 22:56:50 GMT -6
We are a school of 1400. We only had 22 freshmen turn out last year. We beat the bushes but we could only come up with 22!
Of that 22, we now have 30 freshmen out. Just keep recruiting the halls and ask the core of 8 that they have to recruit too. What kind of a senior year do they want in two years?
Also - take a look at what you are doing to "hook" the incoming kids. This year we have 40 incoming freshmen for spring football.
We got rid of the parent/player meeting for incoming players and now have a BBQ and make it a fun event. Kids play to have fun, right?
Sell fun - BUT DO NOT LOWER YOUR STANDARDS. This will confuse the kids who have bought in.
I can see why some say to lower them but just make your program embedded with many rewards (weight room - as some have mentioned). I sell the idea of work ethic, work ethic, work ethic with our players and parents. We make W.O.R.K. a good word and embrace it.
Some kids won't - Don't fret on them, just embrace the kids you have.
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Jun 12, 2008 21:01:23 GMT -6
I'll try and keep this short. Our current freshmen had 15 kids out last year. 1 played varsity. So they played their freshman games with 14 kids. Needless to say, they were defeated on the season giving up over 30 points/game. Since last season many of the kids on that team have decided that instead of lifting and getting better so they can win at the varsity level--there is some talent, just not numbers and they are a team with all linemen--that it would just be better to quit football. We are down to 8 sophomores for next year, 2 will be varsity starters. So, that leaves us with a few issues. #1. What do we do with our JV team? #1A. Do we bring up freshmen to field a team? Many freshmen aren't physically ready for this level of play. Also, by doing so those kids lose a day of drills and skill work that will make them better in the long run. #1B. Do we field the team with juniors and sophomores? Then we don't have enough at the varsity level to get a quality practice in that day. We could do some film, lifting, and basic skill work, but very little in terms of team or 1/2 line work #2. How do you convince kids that they will win at the varsity level when all they've ever done is lost? Once we are able to combine grades on the varsity level we are able to be pretty competitive, but we always suck on JV and freshman levels. #3. I feel very strongly that I shouldn't lower my standards to keep kids out for football. But if kids are quitting to the point that we can't field 3 teams what do you do? We are a school of 450 enrollment. Thanks being blunt, you have an issue at the frosh level. Your frosh coach has to be some kind of problem if the kids do not want to play football. |
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Jun 13, 2008 11:43:37 GMT -6
Coach, I've been in this situation before,it is tough I was hired as a b team coach in VA a few years ago, and when we didn't have enough kids for that b team the squad was scraped. The Var HC decided that I become the JV HC so this is what I had to do. I had 3 frosh players and 35-40 8th graders, made a JV team that was destined to face a tremendous amout of adversity from the begining all the teams on our schedule were mostly 9th-10th grade JV kids tremoundous players. We did the best we could considering leading these kids to a slaughter, all the teams we played were faster,bigger, and by far stronger, putting that aside the kids played hard and we went 7-3 over all not because the the coaching because I was th only coach but because the kids would not quit or give up. We had a ton of kids get kicked off the team because of various issues but in the end I had 25 kids that played their arses off. Having a few sometimes is safe if they will sell out for the cause,the other part is sometimes adversity is a good challenge. After going through this experience I have learned how to handle adversity better,learning from the kids more than my knowledge. Just to see how some younger kids could handle this type of pressure was amazing.Your situation is tough I wish you the best of luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jun 13, 2008 13:23:44 GMT -6
I'll try and keep this short. Our current freshmen had 15 kids out last year. 1 played varsity. So they played their freshman games with 14 kids. Needless to say, they were defeated on the season giving up over 30 points/game. Since last season many of the kids on that team have decided that instead of lifting and getting better so they can win at the varsity level--there is some talent, just not numbers and they are a team with all linemen--that it would just be better to quit football. We are down to 8 sophomores for next year, 2 will be varsity starters. So, that leaves us with a few issues. #1. What do we do with our JV team? #1A. Do we bring up freshmen to field a team? Many freshmen aren't physically ready for this level of play. Also, by doing so those kids lose a day of drills and skill work that will make them better in the long run. #1B. Do we field the team with juniors and sophomores? Then we don't have enough at the varsity level to get a quality practice in that day. We could do some film, lifting, and basic skill work, but very little in terms of team or 1/2 line work #2. How do you convince kids that they will win at the varsity level when all they've ever done is lost? Once we are able to combine grades on the varsity level we are able to be pretty competitive, but we always suck on JV and freshman levels. #3. I feel very strongly that I shouldn't lower my standards to keep kids out for football. But if kids are quitting to the point that we can't field 3 teams what do you do? We are a school of 450 enrollment. Thanks being blunt, you have an issue at the frosh level. Your frosh coach has to be some kind of problem if the kids do not want to play football. No. Frosh coaches are good and treat kids right. They only had 14 kids on their freshman team last year and didn't win a game in 7th or 8th grade either. They are just a class that struggles. |
|
