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Post by cmow5 on May 13, 2008 8:38:55 GMT -6
I have mixed feelings about this and I was wondering what you guys think. It sounds like the opposing team lost the game because of this and on ESPN they said they lost a chance at the playoffs. But the girl did hit the home run fairly, so I dont know.
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Post by olinecoach61 on May 13, 2008 8:49:38 GMT -6
I saw this and to be honest, I told my wife, if it were me I wouldn't have carried her around the bases. I'm too competitive. I know my answer is politically incorrect but its the truth. I would have carried her to her bench, but I'm not going to help someone knock me out of the playoffs.
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Post by darebelcoach on May 13, 2008 8:56:10 GMT -6
Here is my response, and let me preface it by also saying that I am very competitive...but the girl DID hit a home run. Granted, if she couldn't make it around the bases, and the other team didn't help her, the HR wouldn't have counted, but she DID hit the home run...it is not like she hit a ground ball to the short stop, tripped out of the batters box, and the short stop felt bad for her so let her get to first base before she threw the ball. Did it possibly cost them the game, yeah, but again, the ball went over the fence...would it have been better if they made the gril crawl around the bases on her hands and knees?
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 8:57:31 GMT -6
I saw this and to be honest, I told my wife, if it were me I wouldn't have carried her around the bases. I'm too competitive. I know my answer is politically incorrect but its the truth. I would have carried her to her bench, but I'm not going to help someone knock me out of the playoffs. I read this a week or so ago on another board. It was right after I had posted that thread about the HS girl that had a complete tib/fib break during a cross country race, and still crawled the last few yards to the finish line. Made me think about how different the two girl athletes must be, and that if the HR was so important to this girl, she could have managed through the pain of a "blown knee" to hobble around the bases. The punter at the Univ. of AL played half the season with a completely torn ACL a few years ago. No, I wouldn't have helped her either, nor allowed my players to do so, and especially if the playoffs were on the line. You can warm your hearts on the sportsmanship if you like. Giving away a game by assisting your opponent isn't sportsmanship, it's contrary to the spirit of the game in my opinion. |
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Post by knighter on May 13, 2008 8:58:48 GMT -6
the other team in this case won the conference title and made the ncaa tourney....so it cost them a win, nothing more. say what you want, but the young women on the other team did what was right. this is truly a great display of what our young people NEED to be learning from us.
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Post by Coach Huey on May 13, 2008 9:02:13 GMT -6
actually ... umps were intially wrong is saying the team couldn't pinch run for her. they had ruled that if she was replaced with a pinch runner that it would only be a single. so, even with that ruling it wasn't an out and the 2 runs would stand. however, rules do allow for a pinch runner in that instance so the home run would have counted regardless of what happened. THIS story was small part ... as the media 'hyped' it by playing up how a team's sportsmanship cost them the game. didn't cost them anything. result would have been the same.
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Post by rathernot on May 13, 2008 9:02:44 GMT -6
Are you guys kidding? Would you REALLY want to win that badly to be such poor sports. This story is what is good about sports and the fact that ESPN picked up on it is fantastic. Sports reveal character. That speaks very highly of the 2 young ladies that carried her. I would hope as football coaches we would want to develop young men who would do the same thing. Winning is NOT the only thing. Sometimes in our society we tend to forget that. She hit the home run fair and square. They won the game fair and square. Would any of you really want to win a game in that way? She would have eventually crawled her way around the bases anyway.
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Post by rathernot on May 13, 2008 9:11:00 GMT -6
"You can warm your hearts on the sportsmanship if you like. Giving away a game by assisting your opponent isn't sportsmanship, it's contrary to the spirit of the game in my opinion. "
It's not giving away a game. The HR was hit fairly. The game was won fairly. Do you really think what you said above about the "spirit of the game." If you believe that winning a game on a technicality is in the "spirit of the game" then I feel sorry for you. This was a case of simple human decency.
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Post by darebelcoach on May 13, 2008 9:24:07 GMT -6
People talk about the spirit of the game, but then say that they would have let the girl crawl or whatever to win the game...how is that sportsmanship. Auburn, you would have told your players to leave the kid alone? the girls acted by themselves on that one, so if your players did something like that, you are going to run on the field and yell at them to drop the kid back on to the ground? I don't know much about you Auburn, but I think you would have a hard time telling your players, who decided to do this, to stop assisting another player...we are all coaches, and our main job is to help teach young athletes how to become better people and adults!!!
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 13, 2008 9:33:38 GMT -6
I would have done it too. She hit the ball out of the park- screw the stupid rule...It was a great show of sportsmanship. On the other hand Kirk Gibson smacked a homer for the Dodgers and trotted around the bases with a broken leg...she should have sucked it up too  |
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mrigg
Junior Member
Posts: 457
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Post by mrigg on May 13, 2008 9:38:12 GMT -6
[ It was right after I had posted that thread about the HS girl that had a complete tib/fib break during a cross country race, and still crawled the last few yards to the finish line. 15 feet isn't as far as crawling around the bases. Yikes would you have tackled the autistic kid that they let score a touchdown in the 4rth a couple years back? Do your players jump up and cheer when your opponent has an injured player or do they show some respect. I have played against both types of teams and will still call the dogs off when the game gets out of hand on the score board. But there is a lot of respect that is lost when your kids are high fiving each other when my starting tailback blown his knee out when he plants to make a cut. I will admit I haven't been around as long as some of the guys on this board but I have been around long enough to know some day you will be on the receiving end. Then will your opponent so you some respect when there is a running clock or you have lost players to injury. |
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Post by knighter on May 13, 2008 9:39:42 GMT -6
Homerun happened early in the game so the outcome was still in doubt if I remember right. Eventually it proved to be the difference, which made it an even better story IMO.
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Post by ajreaper on May 13, 2008 10:15:24 GMT -6
I would have felt a great deal of pride in my players for how they represented themselves and the program. Then I would have tried like hell to win the game. When you see and read about the amazing crap that occurs at games that is a great story about doing right by another human being- when is that ever less important then a game?
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 10:20:04 GMT -6
Ok, I changed my mind. Great show of sportsmanship.
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Post by scoresalot on May 13, 2008 10:23:30 GMT -6
that homerun didn't win the game for them, and by the way, the coach called the NCAA about the rule after the game, and they could have legally substituted a girl to run for the hitter, so the umps had it wrong and the HR should've and would've counted anyway.
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 10:29:56 GMT -6
I do have a question though coaches. You have your opponent pinned on their goalline in a tie game in the 1st quarter. Their back up RB is forced in to action by an injury, and he's a Sr who has never scored a TD in his life he's good and fast, but playing behind a big time D-1 prospect. The game determines who gets the final playoff spot. They run a dive play designed to just get off the goalline, but a huge hole opens and this backup RB races through the secondary because you D guys cheated up a little too close anticipating run. He's got everybody beat by the time he reaches the 50, and it's clear he's faster than any of your defenders in trail. Suddenly he "hobbles up" badly with what is clearly a strained hammy, and can barely hobble along but doesn't go down straining with all he's got to make the endzone. He's obviously caught for sure now at about the 30. Do your players make the tackle first, or let him score because he had them beat fair and square? If you have the ability to yell to your players so they can hear you, what do you yell to them when you see the kid "hobble up"?
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Post by knighter on May 13, 2008 10:42:41 GMT -6
Difference being auburn that the ball cleared the fence, NO DOUBT it was a homerun. Anything can (and has) happen on the case you mentioned before. I have had my own athletes stumble and fall on a sure TD run/catch in the open field. I have had a player go untouched 65 yards only to drop the ball at the 5 yard line and have the other team recover it. This young lady hit a homerun, therefore it is not a comparable situation....I have no doubt a homerun is a homerun is a homerun. Hell in slowpitch league I play in you dont even have to run the bases and touch em all if you hit a homerun. I walk to the dugout to resume drinking my beer when it happens.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 13, 2008 10:47:22 GMT -6
Made me think about how different the two girl athletes must be, and that if the HR was so important to this girl, she could have managed through the pain of a "blown knee" to hobble around the bases. The punter at the Univ. of AL played half the season with a completely torn ACL a few years ago. HUGE difference. First, your example doesn't really fit here, as Bearden (The AL punter) ALSO did not continue the game in which he was hurt, NOR did he play in the 3 weeks between his injury in the Arkansas game, and his return to the field against Ole Miss. WOW... some people just don't understand sports. Your football example is again, apples and well, not even oranges. Doesn't even hit the fruit family. It is apples and pork rinds. In football the defense can still interact and affect the play until it is blown dead. It is a crummy situation, but tht is the nature of the sport. To make your situation apples and apples, the softball scenario would have to have been a situation where someone was trying to score from 3rd , and injured themselves on the way home and you tagged out the fallen runner. |
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Post by knighter on May 13, 2008 11:16:28 GMT -6
I would 100% HOPE my varsity shortstop (male) would want to do the same damn thing. If he wouldn't I would ask him to do so. When did "win at all costs" become the norm in our society? Again the ball was CLEARLY a HOMERUN. That is not someone's opinion of what "might have happened" it is a verifiable fact. Sportsmanship and compassion/empathy for someone other than oneself is VITAL in today's world. Some of my own, football coaches, do not see how important these things are? Truly amazing. You gonna go home and beat your chest because you "won" a game due to the injury of another player causing him/her not to be able to run the bases? Wow, that makes you a coaching genius, a guru, and a tough guy. Impressive. But in the game of life what does it make you? I'd rather lose 100 games and be known for all the good things I have done than win even 1 doing things the "wrong" way.
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 11:18:19 GMT -6
Difference being auburn that the ball cleared the fence, NO DOUBT it was a homerun. Anything can (and has) happen on the case you mentioned before. I have had my own athletes stumble and fall on a sure TD run/catch in the open field. I have had a player go untouched 65 yards only to drop the ball at the 5 yard line and have the other team recover it. This young lady hit a homerun, therefore it is not a comparable situation....I have no doubt a homerun is a homerun is a homerun. Hell in slowpitch league I play in you dont even have to run the bases and touch em all if you hit a homerun. I walk to the dugout to resume drinking my beer when it happens. It is comparable, because although the ball cleared the fence, it's not a homerun until she rounds the bases, and by rule unaided by her own team. I figured someone, more than one, would figure out a way to "find the difference" in the details. Fact is its the same core question of sportsmanship...he had your guys beat and they catch him because of of an injury and can prevent the TD. Do they tackle him or aid him to the TD? The answer is they tackle him, period. "Sportsmanship" be d***ed. Because under the football hypo, it would be sporting to acknowledge that you were clearly beaten and only caught him due to an injury, would it not? |
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 11:20:50 GMT -6
Before we go prosecuting the heartless. Lets assume this story was a boys baseball game and not a girl's softball game. Same opinion? and don't lie, it is different when you're putting boys in those spots rather than girls isn't it? $20 says your baseball team's shortstop won't voluntarily go help him around the bases and you couldn't make him do it, even if he was your own son. It's all cute and warm and fuzzy when its "girls" isn't it? I think you're dead nuts on this one! |
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 11:30:09 GMT -6
You gonna go home and beat your chest because you "won" a game due to the injury of another player causing him/her not to be able to run the bases? Wow, that makes you a coaching genius, a guru, and a tough guy. Impressive. But in the game of life what does it make you? I'd rather lose 100 games and be known for all the good things I have done than win even 1 doing things the "wrong" way. Fact is, many games and contests are won not due to any coaching genius, or great play, but on the misfortune of the other team. I've never seen a team in sports intentionally aid another in overcoming misfortune because they didn't want to win that way. |
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Post by phantom on May 13, 2008 11:48:12 GMT -6
Before we go prosecuting the heartless. Lets assume this story was a boys baseball game and not a girl's softball game. Same opinion? and don't lie, it is different when you're putting boys in those spots rather than girls isn't it? $20 says your baseball team's shortstop won't voluntarily go help him around the bases and you couldn't make him do it, even if he was your own son. It never would have occured to boys that carrying the guy was an option. |
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Post by darebelcoach on May 13, 2008 12:12:30 GMT -6
Auburn, the play in football with the guy having a clear path to the endzone is not the same thing as a homerun..the running back might trip, slip, fumble, who knows...the play is not over until he crosses the endzone....for all intents and purposes, the homerun creates a deadball situation, the play is over, it is a HOMERUN..so there is no comparison...a guy getting hit after he hurts his hammy running through the middle of the line is different because the whistle has not been blown...the home run over the fence ends everything...she could have taken 30 minutes to crawl the entire basepath and the game would have had to wait for her to do it..no discussion about it..instead the girls showed sportsmanship to help her...there is no comparison
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Post by coachd5085 on May 13, 2008 12:13:18 GMT -6
Difference being auburn that the ball cleared the fence, NO DOUBT it was a homerun. Anything can (and has) happen on the case you mentioned before. I have had my own athletes stumble and fall on a sure TD run/catch in the open field. I have had a player go untouched 65 yards only to drop the ball at the 5 yard line and have the other team recover it. This young lady hit a homerun, therefore it is not a comparable situation....I have no doubt a homerun is a homerun is a homerun. Hell in slowpitch league I play in you dont even have to run the bases and touch em all if you hit a homerun. I walk to the dugout to resume drinking my beer when it happens. It is comparable, because although the ball cleared the fence, it's not a homerun until she rounds the bases, and by rule unaided by her own team. I figured someone, more than one, would figure out a way to "find the difference" in the details. Fact is its the same core question of sportsmanship...he had your guys beat and they catch him because of of an injury and can prevent the TD. Do they tackle him or aid him to the TD? The answer is they tackle him, period. "Sportsmanship" be d***ed. Because under the football hypo, it would be sporting to acknowledge that you were clearly beaten and only caught him due to an injury, would it not? Your football example is again, apples and well, not even oranges. Doesn't even hit the fruit family. It is apples and pork rinds. In football the defense can still interact and affect the play until it is blown dead. It is a crummy situation, but that is the nature of the sport. In baseball, after the ball clears the fence, the defense has NO INTERACTION on the play. To make your situation apples and apples, the softball scenario would have to have been a situation where someone was trying to score from 3rd , and injured themselves on the way home and you tagged out the fallen runner. And as stated, your mention of the Bama punter was way off base here because as I explained, HE (Bearden) DID NOT finish the game in which he was injured. He didn't play for 3 weeks after the injury. Kind of meaningless to compare that to a person who JUST injured themselves. |
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Post by cmow5 on May 13, 2008 12:16:58 GMT -6
.the running back might trip, slip, fumble, who knows...the play is not over until he crosses the endzone.... That reminds of Don Beebee and leon lett . I love that play. |
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Post by Coach JR on May 13, 2008 12:32:19 GMT -6
....for all intents and purposes, the homerun creates a deadball situation, the play is over, it is a HOMERUN..so there is no comparison...a guy getting hit after he hurts his hammy running through the middle of the line is different because the whistle has not been blown... the home run over the fence ends everything Although I agree, it's not completely apples to apples, it's apple to pears. Baseball being different, while the defense has no way to stop the runner from rounding the bases, the runner must, by rule, round and touch all the bases to complete the play, or it is NOT a home run, the baserunners runs will count, but not the hitters. And, really you kind of make my, and a couple of other's points for me by finding a way around the core "sportsmanship" question. In football, with boys of course, you can find a way to rationalize why "aiding the other team to overcome misfortune or injury" is not the same as a girl doing it in softball. |
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Post by Coach Huey on May 13, 2008 12:53:22 GMT -6
fyi for those thinking central washington would have won the game had the girl that hit the home run not been carried. final score was 4 to 2. so, take away her run (even though rules state that a pinch runner may be subtituted for her in such an event as an injury - allowing for her run to count) and the outcome would still have been 3-2.
this game was the 2nd of a doubleheader. western oregon (school of girl that hit the home run) won that game as well, 8-1. prior to this doubleheader, the 2 schools had already played 3 times this season with western oregon winning 2 of the 3.
why did the media really pick up on this? because they siezed the opportunity to say "team helps girl even though it cost them the game" ... when, that was not the case.
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Post by touchdowng on May 13, 2008 12:57:13 GMT -6
It was the right thing to do. Had the ball not left the park it would have been different.
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Post by knighter on May 13, 2008 13:27:10 GMT -6
point being that nothing could have happened when the ball left the park...anything can happen while ball is in play.
she blows her knee trying to stretch a single into a double, tag her out,help her to the bench. my point is she hit the homerun, not gonna take it away from her.
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