carnac
Probationary Member
Posts: 6 
|
Post by carnac on May 2, 2008 9:26:59 GMT -6
I was having a discussion with another member of our staff yesterday concerning getting more offensive bodies to the point of attack in our run game. I love more people at he poa, he says "it is too many butts in the hole." I would love to here your thoughts.
Offensive guys, do you like more people at the poa, or does it make it difficult for your skill people to get in space?
Defensive guys, do you find that more people at the poa difficult to defend or does it make it easier to "clog things up?"
Furthermore what are some ideas to get more people to the poa? I know DW/SW guys do a great job of this. Just curious thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on May 2, 2008 12:06:53 GMT -6
I believe in spreading the defense out and then making it a one on one battle in the trenches. if you play cover 2 vs a 4 wide, we have plus 1 if we run the running back and plus 2 if we run the qb and use the rb as a blocker. if you play cover 1 or 3 we can still be plus one running the qb or using a zone read play.
now people will say what if you lose the one on one battles. well I figure this way, if you lose the one on one battles you are going to lose regardless of what offense you run.
about 12 years ago Nebraska and K State made using a running qb for the shot gun popular and they won a title in nebraska's case and were a top 10 team in k-states case. a dual threat qb from the shotgun able to run and pass is a defense's worst dream.
|
|
|
|
Post by jhanawa on May 3, 2008 18:35:35 GMT -6
I guess its a philosophy thing, but I believe in space on offense and believe it is much easier to contain a compressed offense. My reasoning is that space on offense reduces team tackling and puts defenders on islands, and a compressed offense allows for more team tackling, just my .02 before taxes.
|
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on May 3, 2008 20:05:38 GMT -6
I am diametrically opposed to space.
Used to be a spread guy... now I'm double tight with zero splits. I want the sanctity of knowing I have more force at the POA then you have bodies to defend. Every once and a while, 1 defender will make an exceptional play, but usually, we will get three... and occassionally, we will get more, based on sheer numbers.
In contrast... when I was a Spread guy... I would put my kid in space... he'd catch the ball... and the better defensive kid would tackle him... I didn't have the wiggle or game breakers to make space work... however, with numbers at the POA... a few times, the defense would attack the wrong area... we would break the first level of the goalline defense we were seeing... and end up off to the races...
I like those odds... give me numbers any day... unless you are going to give me outstanding talent... and then... it won't matter any way.
|
|
tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
|
Post by tedseay on May 4, 2008 5:19:13 GMT -6
Offensive guys, do you like more people at the poa, or does it make it difficult for your skill people to get in space? No matter what offense I'm running, I want more offensive players at the POA than defenders. One way to accomplish this is to add offensive players; the other is to subtract defenders, through formationing, deception, and/or sheer speed. So whether the final tally at the POA is offense 10, defense 9, or offense 1, defense 0, I always want to end up on top of that particular numbers game... |
|
|
|
Post by phantom on May 4, 2008 6:44:16 GMT -6
Offensive guys, do you like more people at the poa, or does it make it difficult for your skill people to get in space? No matter what offense I'm running, I want more offensive players at the POA than defenders. One way to accomplish this is to add offensive players; the other is to subtract defenders, through formationing, deception, and/or sheer speed. So whether the final tally at the POA is offense 10, defense 9, or offense 1, defense 0, I always want to end up on top of that particular numbers game... The defense should win a numbers game. One offensive guy has the ball, which means that the defense has the offense outnumbered. If every offensive blocker does his job we will still have a guy who's unblocked to tackle the ballcarrier. The questions are: how deep will that unblocked defender be, and how much space will that ballcarrier have to maneuver in. |
|
|
|
Post by cc on May 4, 2008 8:37:03 GMT -6
I think "both" would be my answer.
There are some plays designed to have more #'s at POA than the defense and some plays that are open field plays. If you only use one style I think you are limiting yourself.
I like having choice plays where we run a called play that we think we will have the numbers advantage but the QB has the option ie) ZONE READ to not give it and he can pull it to run to space (as they have matched our numbers thus leaving an area with few defenders = open space) OR the QB can keep it and throw to a WR on a hitch pass who can try to beat his man 1 on 1 or 2 on 2.
We play some Double Wing teams and they are always trying to get more #'s but the weaker teams only have that as their plan. What would / does scare me is a team that tries that but can also run some companion plays that allow them to get a fast player in open field 1 on 1.
|
|
|
|
Post by justryn2 on May 4, 2008 13:19:11 GMT -6
Generally speaking, I want the numbers. Yes, there are times I'm going to try to get the ball to a player in space and see what he is capable of doing. But for the most part I want blockers at the point of attack. If those guys end up standing around and clogging up the play, on the next play I'll have different blockers at the point of attack.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on May 8, 2008 19:58:31 GMT -6
I believe in spreading the defense out and then making it a one on one battle in the trenches. if you play cover 2 vs a 4 wide, we have plus 1 if we run the running back and plus 2 if we run the qb and use the rb as a blocker. if you play cover 1 or 3 we can still be plus one running the qb or using a zone read play. now people will say what if you lose the one on one battles. well I figure this way, if you lose the one on one battles you are going to lose regardless of what offense you run. about 12 years ago Nebraska and K State made using a running qb for the shot gun popular and they won a title in nebraska's case and were a top 10 team in k-states case. a dual threat qb from the shotgun able to run and pass is a defense's worst dream. With NU what year was that? Im a season ticket holder and rarely miss a game. NU didnt run much at all out of the "gun" until after Osborne left. Scott Frost was under center in the option schemes of Osborne. KSU was a totally different story and yes they did run a bunch out of the gun. |
|
tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
|
Post by tedseay on May 9, 2008 5:46:17 GMT -6
The defense should win a numbers game. ...in the absence of "formationing, deception, and/or sheer speed" -- which is why I like coaching offense so much.  The important point is not to mistake the method (adding bodies at the POA) with the desired outcome (outnumbering defenders at the POA, whether that's Offense 1 Defense 0 out in space, or Offense 8 Defense 7 in a Double Wing Toss play off-tackle). |
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on May 9, 2008 13:35:00 GMT -6
I was having a discussion with another member of our staff yesterday concerning getting more offensive bodies to the point of attack in our run game. I love more people at he poa, he says "it is too many butts in the hole." I would love to here your thoughts.
We are power single wing... it is obvious what I think. I agree with tedseay too...I'm just not very smart, so I know that by getting everyone at the POA, a sound defense will keep someone back for counter/reverse...so we should have numbers... and we will run ctr./rev. enough to keep them honest.
A lot of that has to do with our philosophy of 3 yards is a good (acceptable) gain... and we rarely (if ever) punt, so that shapes our POA philosophy quite a bit... We are conservative (playcalling) because we gamble (on 4th down). Ones willingness to go for it on 4th probably impacts that argument a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on May 9, 2008 13:48:11 GMT -6
get enough blockers there to either a) create movement, b) body up enough to create crease, or c) bog up enough so that a runner NOW has space on perimeter/cutback.
a clogged up "pile" (got no movement) serves no purpose if their isn't a "turning" of at least one defender (crease) or the defense has overhang players (guys free from the pile) that can run down the bounce or cutback
|
|
|
|
Post by knighter on May 9, 2008 13:50:04 GMT -6
DW'er here...do you need to ask me what I think? I know just by adding my QB into the mix as a blocker I win by 1 most of the time, and if I pull backside guard and tackle I can win by 3....you LB can sit and make tackles at 3 and 4 yard gains all night and I will be content enough to keep doing what we do all night. I will try to keep you honest with playaction passes, counters, draws, and screens. If I can keep you chasers "off balance" I have a good chance of winning if I can eliminate our mistakes (penalties and turnovers).
|
|
