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Post by Coach JR on Apr 28, 2008 8:10:18 GMT -6
In keeping with the "He doesn't run good routes" theme...this is another of the big time stupid things fans say.
Every coach has a game plan, a base offense and base defense. You can only adjust so much. If you're a pro-I team, you can't "adjust" and become a spread team at halftime. There's only so much you can change about your defense and still remain sound and cover your gaps and coverage assigments. You can't convert a 4-3 D to a 3-3-5 D in 15 minutes. The basics don't change. Or do they?
My questions then are: What do you run, offense or defense, and what adjustments do you/can you make when the other team is getting the better of you? Do you anticipate the potential adjustments pre-game? Or is it more often poor execution or maybe the other team is exploiting a weak player that you already knew was a potential weak link. What can you do to cover up a weakness the other team has found. What can you do to force the other team's hand?
I know the answers are almost endless, so maybe a few of you could just give some examples from games past where you were getting beat or struggling with some aspect of the game, and the adjustments you made or failed to make, why you made them, and the outcome.
Or do you take the approach "IF we execute, then we don't need to make adjustments, we're just not executing?"
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Post by lochness on Apr 28, 2008 8:34:11 GMT -6
Our halftime adjustments on offense have pretty much been limited to:
1. Running a base play out of a different BUT EXISTING formation in our system that will give us the advantage we think we need. 2. Running a base play but changing the blocking scheme. Example, Belly isn't working, so let's try running Belly "G" instead, becasue we need the blocking angles. 3. Thinking about route combinations or pass plays that are IN OUR SYSTEM already, but maybe weren't in our original game plan that we think we may be able to use. 4. Placing greater emphasis on what HAS been successful up to this point.
Adjustments on defense:
1. Perhaps changing an alignment somewhere because we need to take something that has been killing us away. For example, we are playing a 2 TE 1 WR team that is killing us on the slant to the WR. We may get our SS out a little bit wider than he normally plays to get in the passing lane and take that away.
2. Putting in a "call" that allows us to change an alignment in certain down or distance situations. So, for example, someone is killing us with Sweep on 3rd and long. We tell the kids whenever we say "wide," that means the field side DE is going to a 9 technique...but only when we call it.
3. We may make some personnel changes to get better match-ups if we're getting killed somewhere that we thought we would be okay.
We never EVER put in new plays, schemes, etc. We never break any established rules of our base offense or defense. We never wholesale change our philosophy.
Those kinds of thigs send the wrong message to the kids and usually end up inviting more disaster than you are already dealing with.
Unfortunately, fans and parents are idiots.
We lost our starting QB the night before our first playoff game. He was also our starting SS and punter. The backup QB was a smart, capable kid, but had very little athletic ability and certainly was nothing more than a possession passer. So, at halftime, we're walking off the field and some mom yells at us:
"Come on coaches! Do something creative for a change and THROW THE BALL more!!!"
I'm thinking to myself...WOW have you been paying attention to anything that is going on here???
WHAT I LOVE EVEN BETTER:
We go in at halftime down and we make NO adjustments because (like you said) we know it's not a schematic thing...we're just not playing well. So, we come out and win the game in the second half and we have fans / parents slapping us on the back telling us how great we are at halftime adjustments. That's happened quite a bit, actually...I always think it's hysterical.
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Post by coachwoodall on Apr 28, 2008 8:36:20 GMT -6
There is no Plan B.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 28, 2008 9:15:17 GMT -6
can you elaborate (clarify)?
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 28, 2008 9:18:33 GMT -6
can you elaborate (clarify)? I took him to mean: "If we execute we don't need to make adjustments, we're just not executing."
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 28, 2008 9:20:20 GMT -6
lochness,
Good post. I hope to see more like it. But nothing wrong with "there is no plan B" either.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 28, 2008 9:26:33 GMT -6
lochness, Good post. I hope to see more like it. But nothing wrong with "there is no plan B" either. so, NOT changing play calls (like lochness suggessted) would be ok because, well, we just weren't executing? at what point do you say, you know what, johnny is just having a bad game and that guy across from him is super bad so maybe i will rethink our plan of attacking that gap/running these plays (where, i rely so heavily on johnny to execute). when do you make the decision that the coach must make some type of adjustment (in play call, in formation, in personnel) because it appears the player's aren't (i.e. just not executing certain plays/schemes the way we had projected through game planning). do you ever try something else (wholesale, or like loch suggested)? or .. is it ALWAYS: this is what we do, if we can't execute then we will not try any other method so you win ... we'll getcha' next year...
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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 28, 2008 9:26:39 GMT -6
I coached in a game once where partway thru the 3rd quarter our TE came over to the sideline and told us I can take the DE by mysellf, he's lining up inside. So we ran 88 super power about 10 times in a row, literally, and marched and scored. We just wore them down more than anything. No adjustments at all. Then in the opposing coaches comments in the paper he complemented us for making good halftime adjustments......
I agree that parents are silly. They listen to announcers on Sundays, who are also silly sometimes, and then think they know something about the game. They like to throw around words like zone blitz, penetration, contain.....
Our adjustments would be to use new formations or alter the blocking schemes. Nothing completely new, just different tools.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 28, 2008 9:30:41 GMT -6
I coached in a game once where partway thru the 3rd quarter our TE came over to the sideline and told us I can take the DE by mysellf, he's lining up inside. So we ran 88 super power about 10 times in a row, literally, and marched and scored. We just wore them down more than anything. No adjustments at all. wouldn't that be an adjustment? i mean, you decided to run that particular play 10 times in a row after getting information in the game. was it in your script/game plan to run 88 power 10 straight times or even 10 total times prior to the game? splitting hairs here, i know, but would call that an "adjustment" in that you gathered information DURING the game that 88 power would be tough for them to stop so you called it more (much more so?) than the original plan called for. adjustment = we think this prior to game so here we go .... THEN ... we gather this information during the game SO we will do/not do _____ based on this information (jmo)
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 28, 2008 10:17:14 GMT -6
lochness, Good post. I hope to see more like it. But nothing wrong with "there is no plan B" either. so, NOT changing play calls (like lochness suggessted) would be ok because, well, we just weren't executing? at what point do you say, you know what, johnny is just having a bad game and that guy across from him is super bad so maybe i will rethink our plan of attacking that gap/running these plays (where, i rely so heavily on johnny to execute). when do you make the decision that the coach must make some type of adjustment (in play call, in formation, in personnel) because it appears the player's aren't (i.e. just not executing certain plays/schemes the way we had projected through game planning). do you ever try something else (wholesale, or like loch suggested)? or .. is it ALWAYS: this is what we do, if we can't execute then we will not try any other method so you win ... we'll getcha' next year... Coach Huey, It was coachwoodall that said there is no plan b. I'm not a coach, not a real one anyway. Have volunteer coached a little pee wee ball, and played HS ball 20+ years ago, but the game is very different now in some respects. I'm just trying to learn as I'd like to be a student of the game and not one of those idiot fans making such silly comments as the title of the thread. You got a good site here for that. I'm not in a position to question one who is "in the areana" if they say "There is no Plan B". Personally, I'd have one...I think. And I think those others here that have said what they'd do, helps me learn a little bit.
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Post by lochness on Apr 28, 2008 10:26:16 GMT -6
lochness, Good post. I hope to see more like it. But nothing wrong with "there is no plan B" either. so, NOT changing play calls (like lochness suggessted) would be ok because, well, we just weren't executing? at what point do you say, you know what, johnny is just having a bad game and that guy across from him is super bad so maybe i will rethink our plan of attacking that gap/running these plays (where, i rely so heavily on johnny to execute). when do you make the decision that the coach must make some type of adjustment (in play call, in formation, in personnel) because it appears the player's aren't (i.e. just not executing certain plays/schemes the way we had projected through game planning). do you ever try something else (wholesale, or like loch suggested)? or .. is it ALWAYS: this is what we do, if we can't execute then we will not try any other method so you win ... we'll getcha' next year... Coach, I hope you didn't misunderstand what I had written above. I was saying that we do indeed make quite a few adjustments...just not severe ones. I think your question is a very good one. In a situation such as what you've outlined, we may try to change alignments or even personnel if we think that will fix a match-up issue. I think where you end up "drawing the line" often depends on the situation (ie: how bad are you getting killed in the "problem area" where you aren't "executing"!!)
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Post by lochness on Apr 28, 2008 10:30:19 GMT -6
But in the course of 48 minutes, how long do you stand and wait for your player to get his HOOHA? Coach, I love it! HOOHA! It would be VERY confusing to our program if we were to implement that acronym, however, because we use HUA quite frequently to define the OPPOSITE condition, and those two acronyms sound very alike!! ;D
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Post by coachwoodall on Apr 28, 2008 10:56:54 GMT -6
There is no Plan B.
That comes from our staff manual. What it relates to is our philosophy on in season and out of season preparation. We strive to be innovative and sound in our offensive and defensive schemes. We work to make our team as prepared as possible and teach our kids before game time to know what to expect and how they should react.
Do we makes play calling changes, substitutions, ect.... Yes. However it is more like what Lochness refers to: variation of our spread and 3-3 schemes that we work on daily. I think if you wait until halftime to tweak what you are doing, then it may be too late to make any change of significance.
The heart of "There is no Plan B" is that we must believe in what we are doing and have the kids believing in what we are doing is sound and works. We spend time in the off season grouping our personnel, tinkering with blocking schemes, trying new coverages, and the like so that when we suit up, our staff and players have confidence to perform at a high level.
When we created our program plan, it is the plan we will 'sell out' to implement. We will not switch ponies in mid-stream. Any all questions/concerns that we have as a staff about what we do must be answered and clarified before we implement the plan.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 28, 2008 11:13:02 GMT -6
coachwoodall,
Good stuff!
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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 28, 2008 14:24:45 GMT -6
I coached in a game once where partway thru the 3rd quarter our TE came over to the sideline and told us I can take the DE by mysellf, he's lining up inside. So we ran 88 super power about 10 times in a row, literally, and marched and scored. We just wore them down more than anything. No adjustments at all. wouldn't that be an adjustment? i mean, you decided to run that particular play 10 times in a row after getting information in the game. was it in your script/game plan to run 88 power 10 straight times or even 10 total times prior to the game? splitting hairs here, i know, but would call that an "adjustment" in that you gathered information DURING the game that 88 power would be tough for them to stop so you called it more (much more so?) than the original plan called for. adjustment = we think this prior to game so here we go .... THEN ... we gather this information during the game SO we will do/not do _____ based on this information (jmo) I hear what you're saying..... I took the original post to be the idea of critical half-time adjustments. It was our base play that year and one of the three ways to block the play. That's why I didn't consider it an adjustment. We didn't really change anything. An adjustment would be a change to a blocking scheme. For example one game we were getting killed by a blitz in A gap while trying to run outside veer. The only scheme we had taught was to block the tackle and TE down and wrap the Guard around to LB. The blitz was hurting us, so at halftime I told the guards NOT to pull/wrap around, but just stay in and pick up the blitzers in A gap. It worked. We came from behind to win. I consider that a halftime adjustment. It was a slight change we had never really worked on, but something we could change easily. I am constantly looking for advantages to be had along the O/D line....so, yeah, I guess I am adjusting to what they are doing. touche'
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Post by raiderpirates on Apr 28, 2008 14:26:06 GMT -6
Opposite was the problem last year, our head coach would try too many adjustments and leave the core plays of our offense behind. When you are better, man up and run the lead series. Stop trying to pull trick plays out of a hat that have not even worked well in practice.
If teams had a solid feel for our base series(usually not, he'd just try calling sweeps instead of interior leads) then we'd simply go to spread and have the same items in mind. Running and control passes. Other deemed it more important to throw go routes with less than 50% completion rates to them, so our QB usually ended up getting the makority of our spread yardage running.
Fortunately we stayed on their side of the field so much that we were in four down territory a lot of the time and would get a few yards back from having an extra play, or the law of averages would come back to us on the favored lesser percentage calls.
I agree with staying in the base calls of your offense and doing slight block adjustments(ISO/leads and kickouts, a double at the point).Our line splits were so small that teams rarely got penetration so we could aim the other back's block at whoever came over the end of the play or filled the call hole.
The one team that effectively pulled the ball had to switch their C to G to make the pull, so we keyed that and started chasing the pull through the play by squeezing him down with the man over.
Most of the league is still into basics, man blocking, some down/kick by teams that ran I but the base defense usually handled that. Teams either had to spread or power down, but base teams almost never got results against a reduced front from standard forms vs. our box defenders. They had to switch up into different looks to either end of the spectrum and go very conservative or go with more open looks.
That was something I considered a success, when the base defense forces the other team out of their first choice for offensive play calling.
What you do when they adjust is more of an adjustment. We trailed by the half in four games and won two of them, and took the lead back in another before a late loss. The main adjustment differences were to go back with my base front and blitz the gaps I had called for the formations the other teams relied on. Players would see our practice keys and stay within their recognition set. They weren't actually blitzes so much as they were gap control, control your gap first.
At the youth level you can basically use one formation to change things, and still use items out of your series calls with it unless something is pretty drastic.
Our major adjustments were schematic and involved formations. After the second game I suggested we go from slot to double tight. We had great split backs but teams were getting to the ball because the splits were so narrow they'd come over the weak side. We either had to increase the splits or add a tight end to make the distance off the edge greater.
He was putting the slot off the tackle's shoulder on runs and it signalled what we would do. We won those games with talent and defense, but the best plays were slower developing counters and they kept reading the slot and getting under his block. We put an extra OL as the strong side TE, he stayed to that side consistently, our best reveiver was the other TE and we'd get him isolated on the back side. Suddenly teams were not getting to our passer or to our runners. No backfield penetration on the interior from tight splits and power blockers, no outside leakage from blitzes because they had to gap wide to get around the extra TE, he extended the LOS without compromising the interior gaps. It gave us a pretty uniform appearance so there was no way of telling if it was a run or pass, but with two tight it's obviously run oriented.
Now we were getting the edge on sweeps and as teams added people to stop it we could play pass or run counters and break big yards.
We switched it up to keep teams from getting a feel for stopping that, by every fourth series we went spread, sometimes every third series. Just as they got settled in to finaly deal with our power guys we had a lot of quick passes and QB runs. This was done as a type of constraint to the other team finding ways to stop base set. We did this if we'd been held scoreless early by the third series if their form was getting us instead of penatlies, etc. Otherwise it was our way to control tempo after we had established something and thought they might be near feeling the way to address what we were running with.
If we get back the players I expect to see, we'll try to add the jet series out of that. Also, formation shifts to stay with what we are doing best, but going to the look late in the call so the other team gets less opportunity to key and gap it.
We faced ten man deep safety fronts, six over/GAM equivalents, 4-3, 3-4 and 3-5 and 5-3/4-4, and a 52 two deep(our main form, a team copied late in the year.) The 3-5 played like a 3-4 with the safety walked down vs. 2 TE so it helped change what the opponent could really show that might confuse our QB.
It's a copy cat league in many respects so if we did well others went to that style. When I first got there every played even fronts in town, two out of town teams played odd man and even fronts.
Went to the 52/Eagle full time and kept the league scorers to their lowest totals. Soon everyone else was doing a similar set.
Only one team ran a 4-3 consistently since, and two others alternate depending on who show to play(one team has a minimum roster for the most part, small town).
We stick to call series and route combos based on what they front with. Only one other team consistently used two deep, but they would often try a 4-4 at times and we always moved the ball well against it. Had the most trouble with a 53 if we didn't stay with the lead series. We got the line movement that could seal the MIKE on a 5-3 on interior leads and moved the ball almost at will, but the love of adjustments would always come back and stop what was working.
Now when they went 4-4 I had the team go to the counter series plays first because they keyed flow one way and then bellied off that midline and their guys would be lost in head on a swivel mode. Going to the counter 53 was not good because they read downhill first and the MIKE could recover sometimes. The downhill man would meet the back in the hole and he had no lead blocker so it was far less effective, we'd get about six yards at the most but be lucky to get more than a yard, by then MIKE was back to the right direction or could have been sent on an A blitz against BOB blocking.
If you got the numbers and it's about tech, just reinfocre that item, the guys usually correct their stance, approach, etc. if playing healthy. It was not my preference to bench a guy for a mistake, it was better to let him learn from the experience and reinforce that item, he'd accelerate the learn curve and make the play next time, and he still had all of the week's practice keys for other looks.
Most of the other coaches would run a play and come back to it, but if they saw you screaming to a new player to look only for that they'd run something else and he'd be lost on an island. Then they're coming back with the play you benched a starter for after you tell the new player to go after what they just ran instead of the play he was sent in to stop, etc. Just give the kid depth at his position to see it develop and give him the keys. If you're in doubt and it's not your gap, get some depth and set up a pursuit angle, stay with your keys.
My preference for adjustment was on some personnel more than it was any defensive series, with a shell coverage you could basically change some matchups with coverage backers/safeties better at one style of play. Our three main stars took turns at LB/SS, two more powerful guys on early downs, the will type speed man on spread sets because he'd get walked out. By giving each turns as a two deep he could see how the plays were developing and get an even better feel for coming downhill back at LB, or whose release to key on a passing down.
Now there were some things I think teams could have done better out of the defensive series, and I had counters for it but they were rarely used. Depending on which team needs the most help for coaching can implement some of those more often. One of the HC is gone so I may join a team of players that merged with my first team when the league had to consolidate by merging two teams and assimilating the third into a pool of draft picks for the entire league so we had roster depth to the extent nobody would forfeit games. It's four teams here now, we'll add two more if a nearby town has someone want to coach there and be back into an eight team league counting the two south county teams.
Otherwise it's six teams with a double up of town/regional rivalry games, presumably based on the prior season's seedings in town matchups.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Apr 29, 2008 1:38:05 GMT -6
I think all coaches go into a game with a "game plan". Plays that look good vs defensive set..or formation. Sometimes a team comes out in a different front than you were thinking of, and you have to adjust, but I don't thing an offense really ever changes. You should be able to run all your plays vs any front. Thats why having a game plan is great, because against a 6-2..i'm not running a toss..but against a 4-4 I am. The only difference is a LB on vs off. Sometimes you face a defense that overplays your strongside...so after getting your rear kicked in...you run some weakside stuff that didn't look good early, but does now.
I totally agree with the above statement, the faster you can gain "information" in a game, the faster you can 'adjust'. Sometimes adjustments are tiny, stuff that you don't even think of as an 'adjustment' but it makes a play work!
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