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Post by airraider on Apr 26, 2008 20:57:43 GMT -6
How do you feel about a coach telling a young kid with great upside potential that a certain college coach asked about him, when all that really happened is that the high school coach mentioned that this kid might be one to look for in the future?
I met with Les Miles from LSU and Derek Dooley of La Tech this past week.. I told some of their coaches about some of my prospects..
I have this one kid.. who could be a FABULOUS receiver.. about 6'3 170.. VERY long.. and had very soft hands.. is not a burner.. but has a good stride..
I had to recruit him out really hard.. basketball kid.. I have been telling him that these coaches told me to keep them updated on him.. he has responded to this very well and is working very hard..
I do however feel like I deceived him and am fighting my thoughts on it.. but hey.. If it motivates him to become a great football player and gives him the chance to be the kind of player that these coaches are looking at.. then its all good.. right?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 26, 2008 21:18:54 GMT -6
I would say it is all good..in terms of ethics..because it is kind of UNDERSTOOD that coaches want to be updated...no "saying" necessary. However, I would think the bigger issue is that if the "truth" comes out..then coach is a liar..so what else is he lying about
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Post by dacoachmo on Apr 26, 2008 21:36:06 GMT -6
it's not like you did not even mention the player to the coaches...then it would deceiving...
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Post by airraider on Apr 26, 2008 21:38:47 GMT -6
I of course want all of my kids to "feel" as if they are always being uplifted in my program. I want them to always feel as if they are being put out there.. that is why I am really big on putting stuff on youtube as well as getting as many of my kids as possible to the Nike camps and combines as well as other events. I also stay on Rivals as much as possible about putting my kids out there..
Its a sad thing, but in today's society, we are fueled by instant gratification and these allow our kids to get positive feedback. This in turn helps to motivate them to do better.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Apr 27, 2008 7:45:49 GMT -6
IMO the truth will always come out and when and if it does the stuff will hit the fan. You run the risk of being labeled as a liar. (The coach told me this..this and this.) If you are upfront and truthful all the time you don't have to worry about it. Counsel the kid - show him examples of WRs at the schools you mentioned - ask the college coaches to give you specific academic & athletic criteria. Give the kid a list of specific things he needs to do so that he gets to that level. Create a goal sheet with pictures of players and profiles so that he has concrete examples. Give him examples of alumni or conference kids who made it etc.
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Post by airraider on Apr 27, 2008 10:01:41 GMT -6
IMO the truth will always come out and when and if it does the stuff will hit the fan. You run the risk of being labeled as a liar. (The coach told me this..this and this.) If you are upfront and truthful all the time you don't have to worry about it. Counsel the kid - show him examples of WRs at the schools you mentioned - ask the college coaches to give you specific academic & athletic criteria. Give the kid a list of specific things he needs to do so that he gets to that level. Create a goal sheet with pictures of players and profiles so that he has concrete examples. Give him examples of alumni or conference kids who made it etc. Yea.. you are completely digging way into this.. |
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Post by wildcat on Apr 27, 2008 10:50:09 GMT -6
There is definitely a fine line that is being treaded here...
On one hand, you did your player justice by telling big-time, high-profile coaches about him. On the other hand, you weren't completely truthful with the kid about how the conversation went.
I guess what I am having a hard time with is that you could have just told the kid the truth and probably would have had the same result...
"Hey Jimmy! I saw Les Miles and Derek Dooley this weekend. We talked about some of the guys on the team and your name came up. I told them that you were working your tail off and that you really have the potential to be a player at a major D-IA school. Both of the coaches said to keep working hard and I told them that I would keep them updated about your progress."
Not sure why you couldn't have simply said something like that?
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Post by coachcb on Apr 27, 2008 11:13:01 GMT -6
I agree with wildcat on this one. The topic itself isn't going to cause problems, but the way it came out can.
It is a fine line when it comes to these types of situations. Because of the half truths in the your statement, the player is probably getting his hopes up. If this doesn't pan out for him, he (and the rest of the team) is going to look at you for answers. If they find out that there wasn't any initial interest from these coaches, you are going to be in a bind.
IMO, motivating your players with half truths should not be a part of your program. You are building this kids hopes up pretty high (along with that of the rest of the teams). If this doesn't pay off for him, what kind of motivation is that going to be?? You may win a few more games and get some more yardage out the athlete, but the price is pretty high...
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Post by airraider on Apr 27, 2008 11:13:26 GMT -6
There is definitely a fine line that is being treaded here... On one hand, you did your player justice by telling big-time, high-profile coaches about him. On the other hand, you weren't completely truthful with the kid about how the conversation went. I guess what I am having a hard time with is that you could have just told the kid the truth and probably would have had the same result... "Hey Jimmy! I saw Les Miles and Derek Dooley this weekend. We talked about some of the guys on the team and your name came up. I told them that you were working your tail off and that you really have the potential to be a player at a major D-IA school. Both of the coaches said to keep working hard and I told them that I would keep them updated about your progress." Not sure why you couldn't have simply said something like that? Hell.. why did I crap at 7 this morning instead of waiting until 8?? I dont know!! Its just what happened.. done with and over with now.. |
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Post by wildcat on Apr 27, 2008 11:44:29 GMT -6
There is definitely a fine line that is being treaded here... On one hand, you did your player justice by telling big-time, high-profile coaches about him. On the other hand, you weren't completely truthful with the kid about how the conversation went. I guess what I am having a hard time with is that you could have just told the kid the truth and probably would have had the same result... "Hey Jimmy! I saw Les Miles and Derek Dooley this weekend. We talked about some of the guys on the team and your name came up. I told them that you were working your tail off and that you really have the potential to be a player at a major D-IA school. Both of the coaches said to keep working hard and I told them that I would keep them updated about your progress." Not sure why you couldn't have simply said something like that? Hell.. why did I crap at 7 this morning instead of waiting until 8?? I dont know!! Its just what happened.. done with and over with now.. To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not really sure why you post about these situations that come up in your coaching career. You have posted on here several times in the past asking people for their opinions about circumstances, often controversial, that come up in your life and then you get your panties in a wad when you don't like what people say. How about this... "airraider, you handled things wonderfully...every coach here could learn much about your highly effective and completely ethical motivational techniques for getting kids to win more games for you." Is that better? Will it make your decision about when to take your next crap easier? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2008 12:12:17 GMT -6
I agree with that. This thread is just one example, but if you don't want people's opinions, don't start the thread. It's that simple.
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Post by kcbazooka on Apr 27, 2008 13:18:52 GMT -6
AIRRAIDER If you feel that you've lied - and apparently you do by starting your post -- then you have made a mistake. You expect your players not to lie to you -- double standard.
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Post by airraider on Apr 27, 2008 13:53:56 GMT -6
Hell.. why did I crap at 7 this morning instead of waiting until 8?? I dont know!! Its just what happened.. done with and over with now.. To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not really sure why you post about these situations that come up in your coaching career. You have posted on here several times in the past asking people for their opinions about circumstances, often controversial, that come up in your life and then you get your panties in a wad when you don't like what people say. How about this... "airraider, you handled things wonderfully...every coach here could learn much about your highly effective and completely ethical motivational techniques for getting kids to win more games for you." Is that better? Will it make your decision about when to take your next crap easier? That was not a defensive response.. it was a.. "hell, sometimes I dont know why I say or do what I do.. it just happens" response.. If I didnt want your opinions on it.. then I wouldnt have asked.. but at the same time.. I do not think its a big time no no.. and to be clear.. I did not tell the kid that he asked about him.. as in.. he brought the kid up.. but actually told the kid that he wrote his name down and said for me to keep him updated on him.. |
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Post by airraider on Apr 27, 2008 14:25:15 GMT -6
and for the sake or argument.. how do you feel this is diferent than telling a kid that he has a chance to play at the next level.. and that he needs to work hard in the classroom and on the field.. when you know he has ZERO chance to play college ball?
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 27, 2008 15:37:20 GMT -6
Airraid
There is a BIG difference between a D1 coach initiating a conversation about a certain player to be and a H.S. coach making a plug about a potential player to a college coach.
You sound like you are struggling with the way this conversation actually transpired and you should be. You've twisted the way the conversation went to get what you want. Interest from this good athlete. If you weren't struggling, you would not have shared.
Set it straight with the kid. What do you have to lose? You were excited about his potential and you were caught in the moment. I think the kid could understand this.
If you decide to let it go. That's on you. If you expect total honesty from your players you must model that.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Apr 27, 2008 19:49:18 GMT -6
If I tell one of my players a high profile DIA coach "asked" about him, I am as good as telling him he is being recruited by that school. What is a 16 year old supposed to think when told by his football coach? If I tell him I told the coach all about him - now it up to the kid whether he gets recruited or not (at least in his mind). Fast forward to the end of the season - scenario 1 - kid gets no contact from LSU - coach lied. scenario 2 - kid gets no contact - coach did everything he could I should have done.... - IMO BIG DIFFERENCE.
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Post by airraider on Apr 27, 2008 20:31:22 GMT -6
If I tell one of my players a high profile DIA coach "asked" about him, I am as good as telling him he is being recruited by that school. What is a 16 year old supposed to think when told by his football coach? If I tell him I told the coach all about him - now it up to the kid whether he gets recruited or not (at least in his mind). Fast forward to the end of the season - scenario 1 - kid gets no contact from LSU - coach lied. scenario 2 - kid gets no contact - coach did everything he could I should have done.... - IMO BIG DIFFERENCE. Like I reposted above.. my inital post was a bit misleading.. I didnt say that he asked about him.. but that he told me to keep him posted about him.. |
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Post by nickknx865 on Apr 27, 2008 21:40:38 GMT -6
Well, as someone who can offer advice from the player's prospective, I'm not so sure I would've done that. Yea, he's working harder than he did, but aren't you supposed to be teaching him to not lie?
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Post by cmow5 on Apr 28, 2008 8:03:39 GMT -6
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Post by flexspread on Apr 28, 2008 9:30:04 GMT -6
My old HS coach sent us a package to the HS with positive clippings from our rival before the second to last game of the regular season. We had lost twice, they were undefeated. After the clippings from their wins there was a printed fake story about how they would beat us. This package was delivered to us on game day along with the typical chalk and spray paint on our parkinglot and TP in the school trees (It's a good healthy rivalry). We beat them and I know that several of us had a little more gas because we wanted to show those cocky ba$tard$ what we can do. As I began coaching I talked with my old coach asking if he remembered how cocky that team was and then he spilled the beans to me that it was him. As a coach, his motivation worked and I don't think the athletes were harmed in this, so I don't think it was wrong. I certainly don't think he was teaching us to lie or saying that lying is ok.
In your example, I have to agree with dcohio. My athletes who are freshmen and sophomores, I let them know that they have a chance to play at the next level if they keep doing this, improve this, and do this. I also check with kids their junior year to see if they have an interest to play college ball. If they do, then I include them in the recruiting packets we send out. If I talk to a coach about them, I tell them that I talked about them. If the coach says they will come to a game, I tell them that they may get some college people watching a game. If the college coach seems uninterested, I don't build the kids hopes up by telling him that they want updated on him because this isn't true. If the kid in question has a very good shot of playing any level of scholarship football, he needs to have a realistic idea of the level he can earn a scholarship at. If he's looking for an LSU deal but in reality would not be offered by UL-Monroe then you have done this kid a horrible disservice by using the school names LSU and Ltech. If you would have just said that he will have interest from some schools and the kid is open to DI-AA and DII or JUCO schools then you would have been honest to him.
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Post by dhooper on Apr 28, 2008 10:01:25 GMT -6
Air raider, Its not a big thing. Yes I agree probably shouldn't of happen the way you said it but oh well. It's sad that sometimes thats what it takes to motivate a kid. I had a situation where I had two two kids leading in the stats in the state and I let them know at a banquet and at that time they were. Now what they didn't know was that there was a few teams that had not turn in there stats. Was I lying no, but was a telling the whole story no. I did let them know the next day that the other teams hadn't updated there stats. They still were happy and they still finish high in the State Stats. Air raider you sound like a good guy don't worry about it, theres a lot of people that could cares less if they would of done the same thing. Its a good thing that you feel bad a honest person should.
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