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Post by davecisar on Apr 16, 2008 13:36:43 GMT -6
Unfortunately someone actually thought enough of this to post it on the net  Im sure these gusy are very nice and well meaning fellas, but they certainly are not competent coaches. For starters: Obviously these kids had never walked through an angle form fit tackling drill so they could do this drill properly or had been taught a form tackle WAY TOO SLOW A PACE- boredom rules Head on wrong side 70% of time Very little knee bend No consistently coached target area. No wrap Heads down most of them WAY TOO SLOW A PACE- imprtant enough to mention it twice They Never get enough reps doing it that slow They Never will be able to do this drill until they walk through and teach a pefectly executed form tackle They actually congratulate kids for doing it wrong ( congratulate kids on effort or tying their shoes properly but not on tackling improperly) If they would even just have the kids RUN outside the drill and carry the ball to the next kid they would save 25% of the time. You can get over 4X the number of reps on this "drill" as these guys are doing. Why youth practices often get so little done. Why youth coaching clinics and materials are needed. One team that will lose most if not all their games and run off a bunch of kids. |
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lbdad
Freshmen Member
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Post by lbdad on Apr 16, 2008 15:30:32 GMT -6
dave very bad neck and spine alinement,and they don't drive through the ball carrier.
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Post by brophy on Apr 16, 2008 18:04:10 GMT -6
Bad coaching hurts the sport.
What are ways to improve the game's quality?
Whether it is football, baseball, soccer, or basketball.......youth sports are coached by volunteers who are more than likely not sports aficionadoes, but parents wearing a cap and whistle with not a lot of time to devote to the sport, trying to do their best.
If that individual really wants to learn - that is probably half of it (they are likely to go out and seek answers).
I could be wrong, but I doubt the guys coaching these kids are intentionally trying to go out there and screw the kids over, so where might the disconnect be?
For the sake of the sport, how are the other individuals to be reached? How do they come to a realization that they need help, assistance, instruction, or improvement?
I don't know why anyone bothered to film that, either.
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Post by wildcat on Apr 16, 2008 21:52:56 GMT -6
My first impression from watching that is these kids don't understand the "concept" of tackling...have the watched a coach demonstrate the proper technique? Have they walked through the proper technique step-by-step? Have they progressed from half-speed to three-quarters speed to full-speed? It doesn't appear so. What it looks like, to me, is that the head coach said to the assistants, "Go take these kids over there and do some tackling drills", but he didn't specify which drills he wanted the coaches to do.
The thing is, the coaches who were running the drill were saying the "right" things..."keep your head up!" "Get your head across his body!" "Wrap up and drive through!" So, in my opinion, it wasn't that these guys didn't know how to tackle. Rather, it was that they didn't know how to TEACH tackling. If you want to teach someone how to do something, first, you have to decide what you want them to learn. Then, you have to decide what method you will use to teach. Finally, you have to be able to evaluate whether or not the person learned what you were teaching.
How do you improve that in youth coaching? I don't think you can...first-class, professional organizations like what Dave runs are clearly the exception to the rule. Most of the youth leagues I have seen are run by parents who have an interest in the game, some knowledge, but really don't know how to "coach" (teach).
So, I think that is the closest answer I have...it's not that coaches at the youth level aren't knowledgeable. It's that they don't know how to teach.
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Post by davecisar on Apr 17, 2008 5:20:51 GMT -6
Matt,
That is a good/great question, why are there so many American Idol contestants that are horrible singers yet have no clue they are horrible?
Poor self awareness and having no clue what the quality standard is and their relationship to that standard.
IMHO the biggest problem in youth football is that many coaches have no idea what age groups can or can't do. They either expect far too little ( the clip you got) or far too much, very few have the "right temperature porridge".
Many have no idea what a well paced practice looks like with 5 of those tackling reps per minute instead of 1. Or how a well taught progression teaches a perfect rep.
While I will agree with Wildcat that many youth coahes just dont know how to break down movements and teach, many dont know how to connect with kids or have drills that develop the skills the YOUTH player will need to be successful.
There is a wide swath of quality in youth coaching, there are some excellent ones and some bad ones like the above that give the game a bad rap.
The good orgs mandate required trainining., There are orgs like the Utah Ute League in Salt Lake City that Im working with. There are CLUBS in the league with over 250 coaches, just 1 club and there are about 20 clubs in the league. Each club is required to have their coaches attend 2 approved YOUTH clinics. There are many like that. My org requires all coaches to attend 2 mandatory clinics I put on and pass a test based on the content of those clinics. In Baltimore I had over 190 guys in all 6 of my clinic sessions over 2 days, most were from the same league. In Cincinatti we did a 2 day clinic where all 65 coaches from one org spent their entire weekend at the clinic and then short kids camp. So it does happen.
But the key is to be proactive and train youth coaches to BE YOUTH COACHES. If they attend a clinic and go to the following sessions taugght by HS or College coaches they wont be any better at coaching youth than before:
Veer Reads, Runing the FLY Sweep OFfense the Screen Game, Weight Training for Explosiveness etc etc.
League commissioners and org heads need to set up mandatory YOUTH COACH training. They need to develop libraries of YOUTH coaching materials and teaching tip materials. They need to get their coaches on YOUTH forums. They need to monotor their teams practices and games. On the other hand there are teasm like the ones in this clip where obviously none of them have probably coached before or went to a good youth clinic and had their ears open.
I could always tell within 5 minutes of a practice or game if a team of mine was well coached or not. We hd 16 teams at one time and I checked up on them all. Those teams that are poorly coached you first have to jump in and get it turned around then you have to remedy the coaches. Ive fired a number of entire team coaching staffs prior to the season starting and that was even when we had a huge shortage of coaches. Those are the seasons you see me coaching 2 teams. You develop standards, make the coaches understand and buy into the standards, give guys the tools to succeed and meet those standards, coach them up (the coaches) , mentor them, and hold them accountable.
In our league I would guess we have just one org that is this poorly coached (from the videos), it would be very evident in their play.
BTW I played HS and some DII College ball, I knew the game. BUT I wasnt a very good coach my first season because I didnt know how to teach or reach kids or understand what they could or couldnt do. Back in those days zero youth clinics or coaching materials, it just took time and and open mind to get better. Worse yet I didnt know I wasnt a very good coach until I saw a very good coach in action and was able to admit, I wasnt anywhere near as effective coach as he was. He beat my team with inferior talent and he did it 4 of the 5 years I was in that league. I didnt whine or make excuses or criticize the guy, I watched him, got self aware and non-defensive, did research, learned from him and others, kept my mind open to new ideas and learned from my mistakes and succcesses. I would actually take my competitors to lunch and ask permission to watch their games and practices. asked them for advice. Most of the best ones were very happy to oblidge.
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Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2008 5:29:06 GMT -6
therein lies the question....
typically, out of 100 youth coaches (on average) HOW MANY are actually even going to think about a clinic, much less TRAVEL to a weekend clinic on how to coach?
The reason I ask, is because I work with a lot of moms and dads (there are a ton of youth sports in the area) who are their kids' coach. I can guarantee NONE of them are even thinking about spending that much time getting better (because the resources needed far out weigh their belief that its necessary). I've heard them say, "well, I guess I'm gonna go pick up an Idiot's guide to Soccer and pick out some drills......"
Yes, coaches should be trained HOW TO coach - I don't think anyone can argue that.
How does the average person get to that point (most youth coaches aren't wild football fanatics, but are 'supervising' because their kids are in it)?
Maybe I've got it wrong.
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Post by davecisar on Apr 17, 2008 5:48:08 GMT -6
Matt you do have it wrong in many/most areas. Otherwise I wouldnt have 190 guys sitting in a session I do in Baltimore  Im not that good. In the league we play in I bet well over 50% of the head coaches do not have a child playing. In Omaha over 65% of my coaches didnt have kids playing. I know a league in Texas where not a single head coach is a dad. We do fill out the coaching ranks with dad coaches. We put the clinics on in OMaha, they dont have to travel anywhere. We offer breakfast, lunch and we send them home with a book, DVDs . Most if given the proper encouragement and tools will do pretty well. We show the coaches what reasonable effort will get them. They know waht they have to do to get their teams to have descent success and make the experience much more enjoyable for the kids and themselves and how being a poor coach will impact the kids and them. Heck if you are going to do soemthing for 3 months why not take a few hours to learn how to do it right and with fewer headacehs and problems? Seems like a simple equation, but yeah some won't do it, human nature. All I need is 6 hours to get most open minded guys to the point they can coach well enough to be part of a staff that has a few experienced coaches on it. Of course key is getting all your coaches back every year so you can assign rookies to them. VERY doable. What you are describing is like a rec league in house type thing, not universal accross the country. We have Orgs here that have monthly meetings year round and go to weekly meetings from June on, film the games from scaffolding, have indoor practice facilities etc etc and its not just here, it's everywhere. Locally all the best organizations have 100% of their coaches attending either youth clinics or clinics they put on for themselves. My guess is league wide maybe 50% of the coaches go to one of these. But about 80% of the head coaches probably attend. Other organizations like the Lakota Stallions Org in Ciincy or the Utah Utes in SLC or the ESYFL in Seattle with several thousand kids all mandate training for 100% of their coaches. Im sure there are many Orgs that are hit and miss. I know if we didnt mandate it, we would have far lower turnouts. At least the guys above didnt do this: |
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Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2008 6:57:20 GMT -6
that is interesting / something I didn't know.
Thanks for the insight.
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Post by davecisar on Apr 17, 2008 7:17:35 GMT -6
therein lies the question.... typically, out of 100 youth coaches (on average) HOW MANY are actually even going to think about a clinic, much less TRAVEL to a weekend clinic on how to coach? The reason I ask, is because I work with a lot of moms and dads (there are a ton of youth sports in the area) who are their kids' coach. I can guarantee NONE of them are even thinking about spending that much time getting better (because the resources needed far out weigh their belief that its necessary). I've heard them say, "well, I guess I'm gonna go pick up an Idiot's guide to Soccer and pick out some drills......" Yes, coaches should be trained HOW TO coach - I don't think anyone can argue that. How does the average person get to that point (most youth coaches aren't wild football fanatics, but are 'supervising' because their kids are in it)? Maybe I've got it wrong. MAtt, That is a geat question. Maybe you could start a poll to answer that. Im not smart enough to do one of those  Many of us have an opinion of things based soley on our own immediate personal experiences. Nice thing about these forums are they are nationwide. Question: In the Youth Football Organization that you coach in what percentage of your coaches attend a coaches clinic during the year? |
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Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2008 7:45:58 GMT -6
I'm stumped. Kinda like asking for a show of hands of those that served in the military at a VFW....preaching to the choir. If a person is on THIS site, they created an account, for the purpose of learning about football (I might be assuming a lot), so they kinda are already on the right track (trying to improve their ability), right? Without putting words in your mouth, it sounds like you are raising a valid point and stressing the vital need for ensuring quality "coaching" / leaders / supervision at that level. Going one step further, it sounds like if a local youth organization doesn't supply it, it would be in the best interest of the game, for the local Varsity Head Coaches to invest in the youth football coaching enrichment, by bringing any of those guys along to clinics and / or ensure that ALL those working with the kids are indoctrinated with a Best Practices of coaching. Did I get that right? I don't want to stretch anything....it sounds 'right'. At least I agree with that, because there is a need. The place where I'm at has a program required for anyone involved with the teams that consists of eight, two-hour in-house clinic sessions with a final test. It is different than most, however. I do not believe ANY of those involved attend football clinics (AFM,Nike, Glazier, etc), mainly because 99% of what is covered in those clinics probably isn't applicable to the level of play. Everyone that is a "Head Coach" in these city leagues has to be a member of the National Youth Sports Coaches Association, which, I think is like $20 and a 2 hour video.
The other youth programs I've seen in Illinois and Iowa are very comparable to "dad's club" baseball rec league. Not very organized. If you can fund it, they will gather some dads and run with it. The ones that are "successful" are pseudo-run by the Varsity program. They train (indoctrinate) all the coaches and give them the "out-of-the-box" approach to ensure they remain organized, focused, and delivering the same product. Hear me out - I am under the impression that most guys coaching youth ball are guys that are doing it as a 'hobby' or to help out some kids (maybe their own). I doubt many of these guys are trying to be ubber-youth coach. I would believe that if any youth coach was excited about the game and an ambitious coach, would be wanting to move up the food chain. The reason I say that is because, most folks aren't exhibiting "good coaching" mainly because they don't care (lol) to push themselves to be a good coach. Right or wrong, I don't think most youth coaches are going year-round trying to make themselves into super coaches (they may have bigger fish to fry). If a guy was ambitious, he might recognize a difference between being a coach for the Pee Wee City Champs and Varsity High State Champs. I'm not saying youth coaching isn't important, but weighing motivations invovled might be a factor in the quality play that is typical. I probably shouldn't comment on any of this because I really am not qualified to give a valid opinion. I don't even disagree with you (and I hope it doesn't come across that I am). I don't know what can be accomplished by trashing other programs that aren't good coaches (it is a good illustration of inefficiency) - what can be done to change the trend (if those individuals are not sufficiently motivated)? |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 17, 2008 8:29:50 GMT -6
Matt,
The poll states "In your Organization"
Many organizations have 30-250 coaches. Just because one of them is logged in here doesnt mean all 250 in that org are attending clinics. That may give us a better understanding of who is and isnt getting training.
As to Nike, Glazier etc. Both do have youth sessions and are making a concerted effort to educate youth coaches. I agree completely that most of the topics covered by College and Youth coaches would be of little help to the typical youth coach.
BTW the clinics we do for our coaches is late July right before the season starts.
Sounds like your org is on top of that, thats great. I think the HS model you suggested has merit. But not all youth programs feed into specific High Schools, our Omaha program has kids going to 5 different High Schools. Ive worked with HS coaches, asked advice. Problem is most of them dont understand the nuances and reality of youth pay for play non select youth football. A lot of the advice I got was very poor in fact, the best advice I ever got was from an ex HS coach that had coached Youth Football for 4-5 years and was coaching for me, he had been in the trenches and understood youth football, youth parents, youth capabilites, limted practice time, minumum play time requirements etc etc
The youth coaches that I know, that coach for me, coach locally or even the real good ones I work with nationally have no interest in coaching at any level other than where they are at. They have jobs during the day, they are in it for the most part to teach life lessons to kids, to help kids and to probably stay connected to the game. I dont see any "climbers" in the youth ranks. the ones that I know like the 2-3 days a week thing and the freedom they have to do things thier own way without the constraints of a public school situation.
Ive had several offers to HC Junior High teams in the PS and assist in the HS level, no interest whatsoever, not why I coach anyways. Only my ego would require me to "prove" myself at the HS level and at what cost to my family time? For me not even worth talking about. Im not qualified, I know nothing of the HS game and it doesnt interest me other than understanding what attributes my players need to have to succeed at the "next level".
Most of the guys in this category want to get better to maximize the experience for the kids.
The net is no one has to be a year round coach that spends 100s of hours to be a great coach. Reasonably competent coaches can be built in a day if they are open minded, reasonably intelligent and can follow directions. Certainly any of us could have made the above example coaches MUCH better in a 6 hour session. Thats all most kids need.
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Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2008 8:52:14 GMT -6
I really don't want to hijack the topic you have presented because it is a great topic that makes for an effective milieu for change.
I appreciate the 'discussion' / dialogue taking place. The dynamics that contribute to the main issue (poor coaching = poor youth playing experience) might be worth exploring to finding the solution (if there actually is one).
For the guys that coach youth ball for more than 5 seasons....are probably in it for the long-haul and are trying to make things work.
In the numerous examples you've given and in the videos, I'm assuming that isn't the case for those coaches. I'm thinking that "Joe's Pizza" has sponsored a youth program of 5 teams and has a handful of guys trying to make it work for the Parks & Rec league. Okay, here is a 8, a 9, 10, and an 11 year old tackle team....lets find someone that will be a head coach for those teams (how are they going to recruit QUALITY, anyway?)....and he realizes he can't do it himself so he gets his cousin, brother, buddy to help out.
When I watch those videos above, that's what I'm thinking.....(maybe I'm wrong).
I'm pretty sure the 'coaches' that you have outlined as being the 'problem' (and it is) really don't care about "the game", but more about winning, about kicking a**, about their son getting PT.....
Its easy an sell to home-owners insurance to a nuclear family, but a tougher sell to the college grad renter.
How does the sport become improved? Develop more (organized) programs, right?
Most parents want to make sure their kid gets into a good place to learn........if they have a choice, they'll probably put them in a 'franchised' program, which gives them a greater assurance that the coach won't be a bezerker.
I'm thinking that maybe a fraction of the problem is because "youth coaching" just isn't 'sexy'. It isn't esteemed as much as it should be. Nobody cares (in the grand scheme of things) about the results as compared to other competitive endeavors. That doesn't make it 'right', but I would imagine that is the general consensus
It is what it is...and I would think that plays a part of why QUALITY is inconsistent.
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Apr 17, 2008 9:11:48 GMT -6
I think it comes down to time, effort, and organization.
I am sure we can all think of examples of youth coaches that put in extra time, extra effort, are organized, and wanted to accomplish a strong plan of action.
Then there are guys that do it because no one else will, or they want to help out, or they always wanted to coach football, but don't realize how much time it takes.
These guys mostly do things the way they were taught and don't care about all the things it takes to be successful. They just want to line up and go.
I think both group cares about the kids, but one group is just more motivated and dedicated then the other. Maybe because they have personal level of accountability or because the game is important to them.
My question is, for the ambitious youth coach that knows a little about the game and wants to get better, what clinc can they go to?
We have establish that most of the AFM, Nike, and Glazier clincs are geared toward HS and college. Sure there is the occasional youth presenter, but I went to a Nike COY clinc and they didn't have 1 youth presentation at the clinic.
If you want to run a specifc scheme (SW or DW) there are clinics available, or if you want to use a particular system (such as Dave's) clinics are available, but what if you don't want to do those specific items? Then what?
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Post by brophy on Apr 17, 2008 9:25:40 GMT -6
Does the "change required" necessitate a PR move? Change the face of youth coaching as something more worth the investment of time and attention?
I'd be curious to see how much of an impact the "Snoop Dogg Youth Football" Program in LA has had on interest / awareness of youth sports (big fields / new uniforms / etc).
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Post by davecisar on Apr 17, 2008 10:07:38 GMT -6
I really don't want to hijack the topic you have presented because it is a great topic that makes for an effective milieu for change. I appreciate the 'discussion' / dialogue taking place. The dynamics that contribute to the main issue (poor coaching = poor youth playing experience) might be worth exploring to finding the solution (if there actually is one). For the guys that coach youth ball for more than 5 seasons....are probably in it for the long-haul and are trying to make things work. In the numerous examples you've given and in the videos, I'm assuming that isn't the case for those coaches. I'm thinking that "Joe's Pizza" has sponsored a youth program of 5 teams and has a handful of guys trying to make it work for the Parks & Rec league. Okay, here is a 8, a 9, 10, and an 11 year old tackle team....lets find someone that will be a head coach for those teams (how are they going to recruit QUALITY, anyway?)....and he realizes he can't do it himself so he gets his cousin, brother, buddy to help out. When I watch those videos above, that's what I'm thinking.....(maybe I'm wrong). I'm pretty sure the 'coaches' that you have outlined as being the 'problem' (and it is) really don't care about "the game", but more about winning, about kicking a**, about their son getting PT..... Its easy an sell to home-owners insurance to a nuclear family, but a tougher sell to the college grad renter. How does the sport become improved? Develop more (organized) programs, right? Most parents want to make sure their kid gets into a good place to learn........if they have a choice, they'll probably put them in a 'franchised' program, which gives them a greater assurance that the coach won't be a bezerker. I'm thinking that maybe a fraction of the problem is because "youth coaching" just isn't 'sexy'. It isn't esteemed as much as it should be. Nobody cares (in the grand scheme of things) about the results as compared to other competitive endeavors. That doesn't make it 'right', but I would imagine that is the general consensus It is what it is...and I would think that plays a part of why QUALITY is inconsistent. Golly Im not sure I have ideas on each of those topics. My experience in coaching 5 years in a Suburban "In house" league, 7 seasons in an "Inner City" Org in a select league and 4 years in a Rural area coaching in a mixed "Town" league each has it's own challenges. In the inner city the biggest problem is getting coaches. We had 70% Single Mom families, getting coaches was EXTREMELY difficult. You have to get very creative and beat the bushes YEAR ROUND. Suburban: You have too many coaches and too many people want to spoil the pot. Lots of unwarranted input and hassles of the "helicopter" parents. Rural': Mix of farm type kids and acreage business owner type kids. Some helicopter issues, descent coaching numbers, good ol boy network when your new is a hassle sometimes resistant to change. In just one situation did we have too few coaches, and from the clips it looks like they have plenty of coaches as well. I dont think the problem here is lack of coaches. I think at least part of it is, these guys HAVE NO IDEA HOW WELL A YOUTH TEAM SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXECUTE at this age. I think they just have no clue how bad they are like the American Idol example. Again I was a much better coach than these guys my first year, but it took me a couple of seasons of me being very open minded to see I wasn't a very effective coach. Then I wanted better for the kids and took some time to get better. How hard is it during a 9 month time frame to carve out 6 hours to get better or at least reasonably competent ? How do you solve it/ Joes Pizza shop requires their coaches to attend a YOUTH coaches clinic, makes it real fun, has a quality speaker with good demos handouts and film, hands out free t-shirts and plenty of free pies. Heck invite the very best youth coach from the area to put it on for you, would cost very little. BTW many of these suburban teams charge $250 up to play, spending part of their big budgets on getting a local guy or better to make the experience better for their kids is the right way to go. Does it solve all the problems ? NO but exposing guys to what is possible, what is unacceptable and basic strategies to get to the possible can help quite a bit IMHO. FILM of even a great practice would embarrass the heck out of these guys and give them some ideas on how to improve theirs. When I did my 2 year study of youth football teams, many of the poorly coached teams werent short numbers. They were short guys with good decision making abilities or priority setting skills. In fact a number of the really poorly coached teams even had coaches that were very confident of their abilities and had been coaching for quite some time.  What they DONT need is more "tips on the 5 step drop passing game" type stuff. I remember once a HS guy came on the youth board and talked about how a 10 year old once they saw a dog cross the practice field or a plane fly overhead that practice was "over". Not the case at all for me in 15-16 years of coaching. These guys that havent coached that age group HAVE NO CLUE what these kids are and arent capable of. Nor do they understand the constraints we deal with UNLESS theyve coached it. What the youth coach need is info on: Practice Organization, How to handle kids, how to teach in progressions, base tackling, blocking and ball handling progressions, how to manage your game. My clinics are 80% about how to develop a great youth football team and become a good coach, only 20% is Single Wing BTW |
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Post by coachdoug on Apr 17, 2008 11:13:27 GMT -6
Hear me out - I am under the impression that most guys coaching youth ball are guys that are doing it as a 'hobby' or to help out some kids (maybe their own). I doubt many of these guys are trying to be ubber-youth coach. I would believe that if any youth coach was excited about the game and an ambitious coach, would be wanting to move up the food chain. The reason I say that is because, most folks aren't exhibiting "good coaching" mainly because they don't care (lol) to push themselves to be a good coach. Right or wrong, I don't think most youth coaches are going year-round trying to make themselves into super coaches (they may have bigger fish to fry). If a guy was ambitious, he might recognize a difference between being a coach for the Pee Wee City Champs and Varsity High State Champs. I agree that a lot of youth coaches are "hobbyists" or just want to help out their own kid. For a lot of those guys, who would really benefit from clinics, training, etc., they just aren't willing to put in the extra time or don't know it's available. However, there are quite a few youth coaches that just coach because they love the game and/or they hope to make a meaningful impact on young boys' lives - teaching them valuable life lessons that they can take with them even if they never play a down of football at the next level. In our program, I would estimate that 25-40% of the coaches do not have a child in the program. 50% of our head coaches last year did not have a kid playing. Throughout our league, I think the numbers are similar. Some of these guys are excellent coaches - some even have coached at the high school level, but only work with the youth level now (it seems that I'm always having to go up against them, too. LOL) There are several reasons why a coach (even a goal-oriented, ambitious coach) might choose to work with youth over HS (just as there are many valid reasons why a coach might choose HS over college, or college over professional): - Commitment Level - I put in about 25-30 hours per week during the season, and very little (just the time I spend on this board and a few meetings and some prep time) during the offseason. Most HS coaches I know put in 50-60 hours per week during the season and hardly slow down in the offseason when they attend regular meetings, strength training/conditioning sessions, spring practice, summer 7-on-7 passing leagues, clinics, etc. Coaching at the HS level is just a whole different level of commitment.
- Career - For those of us with jobs/careers that don't have a ton of flexibility, it is tough enough working a schedule around youth practices, but it would be impossible for many of us to be at practice at 2:30 in the afternoon every day, or at weight training at 6:30 am. This is why so many coaches are teachers. I am actually considered coaching at the HS level several times, but the only way I could make it work would be to switch careers to teaching, which I actually have considered. Talk about a life changing decision. I know there are ways around it for those that are really serious about it, but if you don't plan on making coaching your career (at 42 years old, I don't think I'll be doing that LOL), it's just not realistic for most of us.
- Preference in age group - some people just don't like to work with teenagers. They would rather work with a kid who is, perhaps, more impressionable and can be more easily molded into developing good habits and is unlikely to get into any of the problems that teenagers sometimes encounter (alcohol, drugs, irresponsible driving, girlfriends/sex, etc.) - not to mention that teenagers can just be surly and obnoxious. This last point doesn't really apply to me (the other two do, though), but I do know some other coaches that feel this way.
Sure, it would be great to not have to deal with minimum play headaches, and to be able to run more complex passing systems and multiple looks/coverages on defense, but there are plenty of benefits to working with youth. I still may go get a teaching credential one of these days, switch careers and try my hand at the HS level. But, for now, I am content to keep working with the youth program. |
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Post by coachdoug on Apr 17, 2008 11:57:23 GMT -6
Does the "change required" necessitate a PR move? Change the face of youth coaching as something more worth the investment of time and attention? I'd be curious to see how much of an impact the "Snoop Dogg Youth Football" Program in LA has had on interest / awareness of youth sports (big fields / new uniforms / etc). I can address the question about the Snoop League. One of the fields they use is the HS located a block from where I live. Snoop's league has been something of a double-edged sword. It has been both good and bad to some extent. First, the good: - Increased exposure/awareness of youth football. I'm not sure this is really as big of a deal as it might seem - most kids that were interested in playing had plenty of options available to them and plenty of opportunity to be exposed to them - that is, I don't think there were a lot (or any) kids that wanted to play but didn't because they didn't know there was a program available. Of course, a big celeb like Snoop has the abillity to get exposure that ordinary programs don't have. Like when he performed on American Idol and had a bunch of players from his league join him on-stage - that was pretty cool and would never have happened otherwise.
- More opportunities in lower income/disadvantaged areas. I'm not sure exactly where all of Snoop's teams are located, but they tend to be in the poorer parts of the city - they are certainly NOT in Beverly Hills. Maybe some kids got a chance to play that otherwise wouldn't have because they wouldn't have been able to get to practice in another part of town.
Neither good nor bad: - Fields. As far as I know, all Snoop teams use local HS fields, or existing park fields, just like everyone else. I don't know of any new fields built for his league.
- Uniforms. Yeah, they're new and flashy and nice, but not really any more so than any of the other options locally. The average team in our league probably has better overall equipment/supplies than the average Snoop team, and the uniforms are probably about even.
- Quality of play/coaching. I've only watched parts of games from the Snoop league, but it looks pretty much like youth ball anywhere. I don't know anyone that's played against any of their teams, so I can't really say for sure, but I would be surprised if the level of play is dramatically different from what you could find elsewhere. Having said that, I would be shocked if the best teams in our league couldn't consistently beat the best teams from Snoop's league, if only because we are so much larger than they are.
Finally, the bad: - Pain to other, existing leagues. In our area, there are several leagues (Pop Warner, Jr. All American, ours - we were American Youth Football but now we're independent, and other independent leagues, and now Snoop). When Snoop formed his league, the vast majority of his players were poached from existing programs. In our league, the Long Beach program was decimated by defections to the Snoop league. The year before Snoop started his league, Long Beach was in our Mitey Mite level conference championship game led by Willie McGinnest's nephew. The next year, with McGinnest and several others off to the Snoop league, Long Beach didn't even field a team in the Jr. Pee Wee level. Their program still has not recovered and barely fielded teams last year that all struggled. I suspect they will go defunct in the next year or two. I would be a lot more enthusiastic about Snoop's league if he had really gone to areas that had no football available, but he mostly encroached on areas that already had teams and took their players. I just looked at their site, and they have 13 cities (some are not clear where they are located because they have names like "California Cowboys"), of which only 2 or maybe 3 are in areas where I wasn't aware previously had football available. Every other city already had football available.
- Ego - maybe it's just my bias, but the league seems to be more about Snoop than it does about the kids. I'm not sure if they have to wear Snoop patches on the uniforms or anything like that, but it does seem that when you go by a Snoop game, you immediately know that it's a Snoop game, not just a youth game. I'm not sure why that is.
So, ultimately, just because of the publicity he's generated for youth football, I guess the Snoop league is overall a positive thing. However, I think he could have done more good by getting involved in an existing program and using his celebrity to make it better. If he had to start something new, I wish he would have restricted the teams to just those areas that didn't already have teams. JMHO. |
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Post by los on Apr 17, 2008 22:25:04 GMT -6
Some really good points were made here.....and many truths brought to light.....to be honest....I could see "myself" as any one of those young guys coaching in the videos at some point in my youth coaching days.....what often happens.....is there's a disconnect of a few to several years.....between the time these guys learned and played football.......and "now", when they're trying to coach it......drills and techniques are cloudy in their memory......rules have changed......perhaps they're teaching things the way "they" learned(which may have been correct or "not")......like Wildcat mentioned......even if you know the correct way to do something......most part time volunteer youth coach's "are not" teachers(theres an art to passing along information in an organized fashion = that others can comprehend)......Since most of these guys are "not" getting paid, but volunteer their time and often spend their own money, to get kids to practice and back home..... to games.....etc...and likely have no ambition, to progress up the coaching ranks to higher levels, its unlikely they'll be forking out big bucks....to travel to some far off metro area....for a coaching clinic....The obvious, cheap, training solution would be a local clinic by their local HS coaching staff.....or coming to a board like this, and asking questions, doing research, etc....for those more financially gifted, a professional clinic, such as those Dave and others put on might be the answer......but rambling aside.....there's definitely room for improvement.....then also......think about this......before putting them down too much...... these part time, hobby coaching hacks(myself included,lol) could have just decided to stay home in the AC, drinking beer and watching TV, after working all day....rather than get down to the local rec. field and try to organize a bunch of wild young-uns into a functioning football team?
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2008 11:04:47 GMT -6
......before putting them down too much...... these part time, hobby coaching hacks(myself included,lol) could have just decided to stay home in the AC, drinking beer and watching TV, after working all day....rather than get down to the local rec. field and try to organize a bunch of wild young-uns into a functioning football team? what's that they say? "Beggars can't be choosers". |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 18, 2008 12:22:22 GMT -6
LOS,
Very valid point.
However with the large number of coaches in these drills, and even fliming the drill and posting it on the internet would lead one to believe there is no shortage of coaches or time/effort there.
For me if Im going to spend 3 months doing something Im going to get a little educated about it.
If Im building a deck 2-3 nights a week for 3 months and then for 2 hours every Sunday, Im going to ask some friends about deck building and buy a book or DVD about it. Is it just me or does everyone just invest huge gobs of time into things without giving any thought to the opportunnity cost of that time and planning? The idea is just foreign to me personally.
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Post by davecisar on Apr 18, 2008 12:48:45 GMT -6
UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!!!!!! I do a free newsletter to guys that come to my web site and sign up for it. This issue I included both clips from this post. THE COACH FROM ONE OF THESE TEAMS E-MAILED ME!!!!!!!! today He was a very nice guy and admitted they were clueless and very embarrassed by the clip. They had already bought my stuff in the off-season, they are from Florida and their entire org went 2-30 last season, a disaster as one might have guessed. They played a team from Jupiter Florida that uses my stuff and got blown out, did some research etc. found their way to the web site etc Small world, I cant copy and paste his e-mail, but it floored me. Told him to call me with any questions/help  |
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Post by casec11 on Apr 18, 2008 14:46:44 GMT -6
Ok I have been reading these posts and wanted to add my experience.
The guys from Jupiter does not surprise me. In FL there are many new communities that have been built and new programs come with that. If these coaches are anything like our program being new, they are trying to find experienced coaches, but many times there are none to find.
We are not in a new community but are a new program in the city, most of the teams we play are from the suburbs of that city (there is also another league in the city that is cheaper so we have low numbers for now) .
When I joined the program last season I told them I would like to assistant and they explained they needed HCs and wanted me to be one ( the 12-13yrold team). I had no experience other than coaching my sister’s flag football team in college, so I bought books, got online, ect… I still did many things wrong. This is where experience comes in. If I could go back and do it over knowing what I know now we would have done better than 0-10 (we got much better by the end of the year with most of the team who had never played before). The problem was I did not know how to teach the kids what I wanted to get across, this took time and experience. Some other coaches from our program didn’t know an X from an O when they started.
To answer Matts question on how we get better coaching:
1. New coaches be assistants first gain experience under a good coach
2. if one is not available (like our situation)…Clinics!!!
Our program this year has asked some of the successful coaches from the league come in and give us clinics… these are very helpful and would have been last year.
3. High Schools ask your local youth leagues if they need help, or would like a clinic. It does not have to be your systems, but proper techniques and practice organization is a big help to those that do not know.
4. Coaches helping other coaches, if you see a coach who is new, give him your number “if you need any advice” if you are new ask!!
Sometimes people want to do it there way, I tell coaches in our program about this site and others sites devoted to youth football, every once in a while one will check it out. If they come on a read a little hopefully they learned something.
Those coaches who posted that video are trying to get better as coaches (see Dave’s post)
And eventually they will be, especially if coaches continue to help each other.
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Post by davecisar on Apr 18, 2008 15:26:10 GMT -6
BTW coach,
The guys from Jupiter were NEW coaches, first eyar guys, No team from there had EVER wona league title or made it to the playoffs. These guys went 14-1 or 15-1 and beat Liberty City amoung others to finish an eyelash away from a Pop Warner nat Title,. Very proud of those guys, very very smart bunch of priority setters, problem solvers, researchers, very nice guys on top of it and extremely average talent (slow) you know the demographic.
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Post by phantom on Apr 18, 2008 16:31:53 GMT -6
therein lies the question.... typically, out of 100 youth coaches (on average) HOW MANY are actually even going to think about a clinic, much less TRAVEL to a weekend clinic on how to coach? The reason I ask, is because I work with a lot of moms and dads (there are a ton of youth sports in the area) who are their kids' coach. I can guarantee NONE of them are even thinking about spending that much time getting better (because the resources needed far out weigh their belief that its necessary). I've heard them say, "well, I guess I'm gonna go pick up an Idiot's guide to Soccer and pick out some drills......" Yes, coaches should be trained HOW TO coach - I don't think anyone can argue that. How does the average person get to that point (most youth coaches aren't wild football fanatics, but are 'supervising' because their kids are in it)? Maybe I've got it wrong. I rarely post here because I'm a HS coach not a youth coach and the games are different. I did coach one year of youth, though, and was a lot worse than these guys. In my experience, highly organized youth leagues that offer chances for coaches to learn how to coach are rare. Most are happy just to have enough volunteer coaches. Please don't take that as a rip. I tip my hat to guys who give up their time to work with kids. I think that the reason that many youth coaches donn't attend clinics or buy books or DVDs is that that they don't know that they exist. |
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lbdad
Freshmen Member
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Post by lbdad on Apr 18, 2008 17:56:34 GMT -6
dave there is a thing called "EGO" in the town were i coach they all have it i have been to the championship game twice and none of the boys want to know how i do it.they only care about there own son going bothways and "starting". it's not time money or knowing about clinics it's "EGO".
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Post by davecisar on Apr 18, 2008 20:44:23 GMT -6
therein lies the question.... typically, out of 100 youth coaches (on average) HOW MANY are actually even going to think about a clinic, much less TRAVEL to a weekend clinic on how to coach? The reason I ask, is because I work with a lot of moms and dads (there are a ton of youth sports in the area) who are their kids' coach. I can guarantee NONE of them are even thinking about spending that much time getting better (because the resources needed far out weigh their belief that its necessary). I've heard them say, "well, I guess I'm gonna go pick up an Idiot's guide to Soccer and pick out some drills......" Yes, coaches should be trained HOW TO coach - I don't think anyone can argue that. How does the average person get to that point (most youth coaches aren't wild football fanatics, but are 'supervising' because their kids are in it)? Maybe I've got it wrong. I rarely post here because I'm a HS coach not a youth coach and the games are different. I did coach one year of youth, though, and was a lot worse than these guys. In my experience, highly organized youth leagues that offer chances for coaches to learn how to coach are rare. Most are happy just to have enough volunteer coaches. Please don't take that as a rip. I tip my hat to guys who give up their time to work with kids. I think that the reason that many youth coaches donn't attend clinics or buy books or DVDs is that that they don't know that they exist. It varies from league to league. BUt I assure you the teams playin in compeitive leagues or "select" leagues or going to tournaments are NOT being coached by guys like these. One of the teams has to be a rec level league the other is Pop Warner, again with the club having a 2-30 record. I know a team in one of these leagues where about 1/2 the league is fairly well coached. Obviously they got bombed out of that one. The clinics I do sometimes draw as many as 190, guys standing in back and sitting on the floors. There are guys that travel 300 miles+ to go to these things. A clinic Im doing in Seattle has 5 guys from Montana driving up for it. There are very good competitive youth leagues with good coaching and then there arent. They just may not be around you. Some of the teams here practice 5 nights a week, one plays in a 10,000 seat college stadium, another has an indoor practice field, another charges over $1,000 to play, another does camps all summer long, another erects scaffolding at their games to get a filmer up there. We dont do any of that, but it happens lots of places. A local clinic here for youth exclusively drew coaches from every team in the 850,000 metroplex including some entire staffs. |
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Post by los on Apr 18, 2008 22:26:36 GMT -6
This scenario sounds real familiar "Casec11", lol.....I mean, if you think about it......how does one learn a job skill in anything? #1-Either get a formal education = schools, clinics, whatever........#2-On the job training by someone who already knows what they're doing = apprentice or asst.......or....#3- just get thrown into the frying pan and learn by trial and error.....I'd wager, that most youth coach's are the two latter cases, many being the third choice? I agree with Dave in that......"most" folks don't go into an endeavor, with the idea of "doing the worst possible job they can".......it just looks that way at times, cause = inexperience.......sometimes all the dvd's....books....theory...studying.....etc...(while very important).....aren't as valuable a teaching tool, as good old fashioned, getting out there, messing up and getting your a$$ beat !
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Post by davecisar on Apr 19, 2008 5:51:55 GMT -6
Coach,
That may be the case where you are and Im sure the case in other places, but there are others that it is not. Case in point: ALta in the Utah Ute league ( 1 Club ina league of 20+ clubs) they alone have 250+ coaches and coaches on a waiting list, they have TOO MANY coaches. I spoke to their Org Pres this week. They have extensive voting and selection proccess to choose coaches. One of the teams we face every year in the Omaha Select leeague always has 5-7 coaches, good ones all with College Playing experience. We played a team in the non select arena last season that had 9 coaches.
My OmaHa Org often had 90 coaches+. Rookie coaches were NEVER allowed to head coach, they had to serve under one of our Vet guys that "got it".
When we had underperforming coaches the coaches were not asked back. I am very confident though all of these guys could be easily turned around with a little help. I hear from youth coaches all the time that visit my web site that were not asked to come back or they tell stories of coaches not being asked back. They talk about getting edeged out in "interviews" etc. The guys that really mess up usually arent head coaching again unless it's rec level or like some of the inner-city teams the teams are just desperate for help.
You would be suprised at the number of orgs that have mandatory training. too bad they all dont.
It varies from area to area, obviously widely.
I suggest you go to a youth football tournament near you that has out of state or area teams playing and walk the sidelines and see the quality of the teams and coaching.
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Post by casec11 on Apr 19, 2008 12:14:34 GMT -6
I suggest you go to a youth football tournament near you that has out of state or area teams playing and walk the sidelines and see the quality of the teams and coaching. I would love to see that and I don't doub't this, but I do know some teams from our league go to these and do very well. Our league is extremely competitive we had 4 of the 7 FLyaa state champs and 2 others were the runner up. Our team (0-10) with exactly 11 kids scrimmaged a playoff team from another league late in the season and we destroyed them. I know what has to be done. My question is, simmilar to brophys, how do I get other coaches from our program interested in becoming better... I see drills like the one above all the time.... and probably in the begining I ran something similar. Should I aproach a coach (when he is alone) and let him know there is a better way? -Case |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 19, 2008 14:25:08 GMT -6
Coach, if you were 0-10 and the coaches dont think there is a problem or arent interestred in getting the kids a better, experience, wow.
I would show them the above example and a good example and let them decide for themselves what the kids would be better served by. If they want to be 0-10 again, let them know what that does for the kids experience.
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Im not that good.
