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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 8:35:13 GMT -6
I was just curious to hear some of your views about the role of faith in football. This doesn't doesn't just have to be about Christianity but about any religious beliefs.
In general,
1. What role should faith play in football? 2. Is the integration of faith and football a positive thing?
These are just some questions to get a discussion going. I just wanted to bring up an issue and discuss it, wherever it goes.
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 16, 2008 9:03:57 GMT -6
one of the best headers i ever worked for considered himself a very devout christian.....and he was......never missed church, community involvement, heard him say 4 cuss words in 3 years, was a great example for our kids, kept a christian rock cd in his player at all times.....and a side note...i hate christian rock.....i'm an old 80's rock fan.....hard for me to mix the ideas of "christian" and "rock".....
i think he had one problem.....in my humble opinion....i think he pressed his religion on our kids too much.......i think some sort of bible study is a good thing BUT i don't think it's our place to teach young people about salvation when there are parents in place to do that......(especially now that i have a child of my own).........i want to teach my child what i think is important........
and i know there are situations where a young person may not have anyone to teach them right or wrong......and a coach may have to step in privately to assist that child with a more detailed study......
i may be way off on this....but i just consider myself a private person when it comes to religion...i don't like the idea of parading around like some t.v. preacher.......
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Post by k on Apr 16, 2008 9:11:42 GMT -6
1. What role should faith play in football? 2. Is the integration of faith and football a positive thing? 1-a. On a team level? Nothing. 1-b. On a personal level? Whatever the individual wishes it to. 2-a. On a team level? Definitely not. 2-b. On a personal level? Probably is just like any other aspect of life.
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Post by k on Apr 16, 2008 9:13:49 GMT -6
i may be way off on this....but i just consider myself a private person when it comes to religion...i don't like the idea of parading around like some t.v. preacher....... And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret… - Matthew 6:6
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 10:24:49 GMT -6
On a personal level, do you see faith as positively influencing your performance, a hinderance to your performance, or no effect on your performance?
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Post by k on Apr 16, 2008 10:29:27 GMT -6
On a personal level, do you see faith as positively influencing your performance, a hinderance to your performance, or no effect on your performance? Physical performance? Probably no effect. Character including seeing through tough times both teamwise and personally and insuring positive actions both on the field and off? Its positive in 90% of cases.
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Post by dubber on Apr 16, 2008 10:32:06 GMT -6
When faith is a VERB, and not a set of personal belief statements of metaphysical concern, then it is helpful.
The ATTITUDE of doing the right thing and putting others ahead of yourself is a positive influence indeed.
Trying to get everyone to submit to the same beliefs as you is detrimental......trying to get everyone to treat others as they would be treated means you are a good coach.
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 16, 2008 10:33:03 GMT -6
reminds me of one of my favorite movie lines ever......even though it does make fun of religion a little bit...
"Are you trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball?" from Major League
i don't think anybody can honestly say God made me catch it or God made me hit it or God made me run it.......everybody prays before every game......only half the teams win.....is God up there flipping a coin?
i think people CAN say.....God gave me certain gifts and i chose to develop these gifts......my development is what put me in a position to be successful......
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 16, 2008 10:40:56 GMT -6
1. What role should faith play in football? 2. Is the integration of faith and football a positive thing? 1-a. On a team level? Nothing. 1-b. On a personal level? Whatever the individual wishes it to. 2-a. On a team level? Definitely not. 2-b. On a personal level? Probably is just like any other aspect of life. Ditto. The second that religion is pushed it turns some people off PERMANENTLY. These could be players, staff, administration, parents... Our HC is devout but does a good job of not pushing it to the team or staff. He gains a lot of respect because of this. A good team feels comfortable around each other- I'd hate to turn a kid off by preaching to them when we can find other ways to motivate. I think that this is where many people fail- they bring personal beliefs/satisfaction to the game when these beliefs will have no affect on the outcome of a game. It could be Crusaders vs. Pagans, and it will still come down to ball control and turnovers...
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 10:42:30 GMT -6
Good point.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 16, 2008 10:42:50 GMT -6
i may be way off on this....but i just consider myself a private person when it comes to religion...i don't like the idea of parading around like some t.v. preacher....... And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret… - Matthew 6:6 Exactly
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 10:52:31 GMT -6
In a book called The Right Way to Win by Mike Blaylock
his first chapter is about dispelling these 5 myths about God and sports.
1. Being a Christian means the score will always come out in your favor 2. Christians never get injured 3. A Christian will have a performance advantage over a non Christian 4. Being a Christain will mean that the ref will always make the call in your favor 5. Being a Christian means that you will always get playing time.
These 5 statements are nothing but myths, but it is surprising how many people subscribe to them.
I like the movie, "Facing the Giants" but I think it subscribes to some of these myths (#1, #3 especially).
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Post by coachcastleman on Apr 16, 2008 10:53:48 GMT -6
I agree with a lot that has been said. However, if a man is a Christian, or a follower of any other religion for that matter, then that is a part of him and who he is. I am a Christian and choose to try to live my life to a higher standard. I don't finish each practice with a 3 point sermon, but I don't make an effort to "not to sound like a Christan". It is who I am. I am conscious of the issue of the separation of church and state, I tend to focus on making right choices and putting others ahead of yourself. Faith does play a role in football for me, just as it does in any part of my life.
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 11:00:59 GMT -6
And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret… - Matthew 6:6 Not arguing at all, just generating more discussion. “You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. 15 No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father. -Matthew 5:14-16
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 11:06:33 GMT -6
What do you think about this quote:
"Most people would rather see a sermon than hear one"
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Post by airman on Apr 16, 2008 11:15:16 GMT -6
i think the kids will respect you more based on how you live your life as a Christian. If you claim to be a Christian and you are leading a life contrary to what you preach the kids will see right through you.
never ask a man or boy to do something you will not do first. you want kids to be respectful, next time you think about chewing the ref out in the middle of a game, think what the kids will see. you showing lack of respect for an official who is in charge of the game.
you lose it on a official, how do you expect your kids to learn to control there emotions? controlling ones emotions is the best thing which can be taught to any one. there is a difference between respectfully questioning a call and being bobby knight.
I used to like Bobby Knight but how can you respect a person who demands his players maintain a superior level of discipline and then not demand that of yourself.
I think if you truly what to use your fail to inspire your athletes you need to walk the walk and not talk the talk. you should preach love in your hear for your most vile opponent. you should love not hate. you should speak kindly of all people, even if you know the person is less than a moral person.
If you really want to use your faith, I suggest you read the following book and apply what it talks about. The Greatest Salesman by Oq Mandino. Written in 1968. It is not just for salesman. It is a philosophy of life.
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 16, 2008 11:22:32 GMT -6
another reason i don't discuss the bible much....anybody can pick out 1 verse and make their point.....
mark chapter 16 talks about speaking in tongues, healing the sick, drinking poison, and picking up snakes......
should we make this part of our practice?
at any rate, maybe that helps make my point........
i think you can use faith based lessons to promote.....hard work, team work, focus, the golden rule, responsibility, staying positive when things are negative, etc.........many great points that can be used in a universal way.....
i don't think it is in any way helpful to talk about personal relationships with God, salvation, baptism, or any specific religious rules that seperates one religion from another....
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 11:32:27 GMT -6
i think you can use faith based lessons to promote.....hard work, team work, focus, the golden rule, responsibility, staying positive when things are negative, etc.........many great points that can be used in a universal way..... .... I agree. In a public school, team goals like "to glorify Jesus" would really divide a team because that goal would only pertain to Christians and in a public school, not everyone on the team is a Christian. Goals like "Make the most of your ability" are much better for a team because that applies whether you are a Christian or not. If you are a Christian, then making the most of your ability glorifies Jesus as well. If you are not, it is still a good goal to strive for.
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Post by dhooper on Apr 16, 2008 11:34:09 GMT -6
Faith absolutely. I don't preach my believes. But every player knows where I stand. If a player comes up and asks me I will tell them, but in a public school I not allowed. The other day in the weight room two of my captains came and ask me why am I so hard on them about there bad language, my answer to him because I want Jesus to be proud of what I'm trying to do. For the first time I think they got it. Now do I have kids still using bad language yes there kids and I still get on them. I know there a lot of you that are just good people that don't allow it, but in my mind I try to do ever thing for the lord. Actions talk louder then words.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 16, 2008 11:39:48 GMT -6
I agree with a lot that has been said. However, if a man is a Christian, or a follower of any other religion for that matter, then that is a part of him and who he is. I am a Christian and choose to try to live my life to a higher standard. I don't finish each practice with a 3 point sermon, but I don't make an effort to "not to sound like a Christan". It is who I am. I am conscious of the issue of the separation of church and state, I tend to focus on making right choices and putting others ahead of yourself. Faith does play a role in football for me, just as it does in any part of my life. Totally agree and and I respect this. Faith on a personal level- preach faith being personal, i.e. "have faith [whatever your faith may be]"
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Post by airman on Apr 16, 2008 11:51:32 GMT -6
another reason i don't discuss the bible much....anybody can pick out 1 verse and make their point..... mark chapter 16 talks about speaking in tongues, healing the sick, drinking poison, and picking up snakes...... should we make this part of our practice? at any rate, maybe that helps make my point........ i think you can use faith based lessons to promote.....hard work, team work, focus, the golden rule, responsibility, staying positive when things are negative, etc.........many great points that can be used in a universal way..... i don't think it is in any way helpful to talk about personal relationships with God, salvation, baptism, or any specific religious rules that seperates one religion from another.... I am getting off topic hear but you go up in the hills of lower Ohio, Kentucky, Tenn. and W.Virgina and there are churches which handle rattle snakes. If you get bit and you die, you must not have enough faith.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2008 12:09:22 GMT -6
I think that a coach should work hard to keep any religious aspects out of the program. I had the opportunity to coach on a staff that was 100% Christian (80% catholic, 20% protestant I think, but no one really "devout") WE were at a school where more than 45% of the population was Jewish. Games/activities had to be scheduled around the High Holy Days. It really is an enlightening experience. After that experience, I remember how uncomfortable I was at a public school, even though it was only a subtle christian undertones were attached to the program and the messages.
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Post by wingt74 on Apr 16, 2008 13:21:57 GMT -6
I agree with a lot that has been said. However, if a man is a Christian, or a follower of any other religion for that matter, then that is a part of him and who he is. I am a Christian and choose to try to live my life to a higher standard. I don't finish each practice with a 3 point sermon, but I don't make an effort to "not to sound like a Christan". It is who I am. I am conscious of the issue of the separation of church and state, I tend to focus on making right choices and putting others ahead of yourself. Faith does play a role in football for me, just as it does in any part of my life. Higher standard then what? Religion has no place in football. Kids come to play football and we give them that along with teaching them to be good, responsible, respectful people. As soon as you put religion in that mix, you start to become more than a football coach. And, I just can not STAND people who hide behind religion. People who "Go to church EVERY sunday, never miss a mass, never cuss, play religious music, and are disrespectful to those that don't live that lifestyle. Because of that, I choose not to be a hypocrite and include it in my practice philosophy.
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Post by burtledog on Apr 16, 2008 13:25:52 GMT -6
This is a great discussion.
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Post by coachcastleman on Apr 16, 2008 13:52:26 GMT -6
The higher standard I refer to is that of living my life in such a way to be a blessing to others, to put others ahead of myself, to honor my God with all of my actions. Why is it perceived that if someone is a "Christian" they should somehow suppress that when they are around others who do not believe the same as them. I know when I am around others who are not Christians, they do not suppress their actions that I might perceive as being offensive. There is no disrespect in being who you are as long as you are real. I treat everyone with the amount of respect I would like for them to show to me. Like I stated before, being a Christian, which simply means a follower of Christ, is a part of who I am all the time, not just when I am not on the football field.
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Post by tigercoach on Apr 16, 2008 16:19:55 GMT -6
I agree with a lot that has been said. However, if a man is a Christian, or a follower of any other religion for that matter, then that is a part of him and who he is. I am a Christian and choose to try to live my life to a higher standard. I don't finish each practice with a 3 point sermon, but I don't make an effort to "not to sound like a Christan". It is who I am. I am conscious of the issue of the separation of church and state, I tend to focus on making right choices and putting others ahead of yourself. Faith does play a role in football for me, just as it does in any part of my life. Higher standard then what? Religion has no place in football. Kids come to play football and we give them that along with teaching them to be good, responsible, respectful people. As soon as you put religion in that mix, you start to become more than a football coach. And, I just can not STAND people who hide behind religion. People who "Go to church EVERY sunday, never miss a mass, never cuss, play religious music, and are disrespectful to those that don't live that lifestyle. Because of that, I choose not to be a hypocrite and include it in my practice philosophy. I agree that "religion" has no place in football but I believe "faith" does. Religious hypocrites have severely damaged the reputation of faith for those of us who believe in a living, loving relationship with our Savior. By your own response you say that "As soon as you put religion in that mix, you start to become more than a football coach." But before that you said: "Kids come to play football and we give them that along with teaching them to be good, responsible, respectful people." Does that not cross the "football coach" line? What about taking a kid in whose parents were killed? Or becoming a foster parent to one of your players who was abused in every way possible? Did I cross the line as a coach? I don't know where the line is when it comes to helping kids lead a better, fuller, more enriched lives. I think any person on the street can teach a kid to catch, throw, block, etc. and to me it is living that "faith" by teaching kids through our actions as well as being good, responsible and respectful that coaching football as well as any other sport is all about. Let me close by simply saying being a hypocrite is a choice and none of us have to make the choice to be one whether you are a Believer or not. Thanks for letting me speak my heart, I am not calling you out or anything of the sort so please don't take it that way. I respect your feelings and understand that we see it from two different viewpoints. Good luck next season.
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Post by dubber on Apr 16, 2008 16:31:50 GMT -6
This discussion is good, but it has the potential to get shut down....let's be super sensitive about our subject matter
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Post by wingt74 on Apr 17, 2008 8:29:18 GMT -6
Higher standard then what? Religion has no place in football. Kids come to play football and we give them that along with teaching them to be good, responsible, respectful people. As soon as you put religion in that mix, you start to become more than a football coach. And, I just can not STAND people who hide behind religion. People who "Go to church EVERY sunday, never miss a mass, never cuss, play religious music, and are disrespectful to those that don't live that lifestyle. Because of that, I choose not to be a hypocrite and include it in my practice philosophy. I agree that "religion" has no place in football but I believe "faith" does. Religious hypocrites have severely damaged the reputation of faith for those of us who believe in a living, loving relationship with our Savior. By your own response you say that "As soon as you put religion in that mix, you start to become more than a football coach." But before that you said: "Kids come to play football and we give them that along with teaching them to be good, responsible, respectful people." Does that not cross the "football coach" line? What about taking a kid in whose parents were killed? Or becoming a foster parent to one of your players who was abused in every way possible? Did I cross the line as a coach? I don't know where the line is when it comes to helping kids lead a better, fuller, more enriched lives. I think any person on the street can teach a kid to catch, throw, block, etc. and to me it is living that "faith" by teaching kids through our actions as well as being good, responsible and respectful that coaching football as well as any other sport is all about. Let me close by simply saying being a hypocrite is a choice and none of us have to make the choice to be one whether you are a Believer or not. Thanks for letting me speak my heart, I am not calling you out or anything of the sort so please don't take it that way. I respect your feelings and understand that we see it from two different viewpoints. Good luck next season. I hear what you're saying coach...to me, religion is a very personal thing, and like the above coach said, is a very sensitive subject. You can talk about why it is bad to lie without talking about the Ten Commandments I guess is what I am getting at. Helping a kid keep his grades up or consoling them after there is a tragedy in their family, to me, is being a coach. Pushing religion or politics is not.
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frog
Freshmen Member
Posts: 16
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Post by frog on Apr 17, 2008 9:37:42 GMT -6
I was a first class terd to the people that loved me while growing up. Went to a basketball camp where a coach took time to care about helping me become a better ball player. He also took time to get to know me and seemed to care about me, even though I was a jerk... I asked him why a big time coach would be willing to spend his time with a small town, no playing fool like me. He told me cause Jesus loved him even when he was a terd. I wanted to be like him, so as the camp went on, I made a purpose to find out more about who Jesus was, and what it meant to be a follower. Not a perfect follower here by any means, but I do try... This encounter way back then probably is why I chose to become a coach myself. As coaches, we need to remember that we are a lamp on a hill weather we want to be or not...
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Post by gunrun on Apr 17, 2008 10:13:21 GMT -6
I was just curious to hear some of your views about the role of faith in football. This doesn't doesn't just have to be about Christianity but about any religious beliefs. In general, 1. What role should faith play in football? 2. Is the integration of faith and football a positive thing? I think that integrating the two can be a positive thing, keeping in mind that what you do carries much more weight than what you say. Faith and football are both about personal excellence, holding each other accountable, and prioritizing others (team) above yourself. I believe my faith helps me to be a better coach. It's easy to cuss at a kid (which I've been guilty of before), but hard to hold your tongue and be patient and show them love. My faith in the Lord helps me to do this. The saying is true: "They don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."
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