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Post by coachdirt on Jan 29, 2018 21:17:47 GMT -6
Oh the irony. Cog Dis is a nasty nasty thing. So...youth tackle doesn't retain #'s throughout HS and beyond?? Not most of them. More people play football as children than they do in HS or after. I think the same is true of baseball, though the ratio's probably not as high. Actually it's probably true of everything, considering how much free time children have. Can't see how a shift to Flag until 15 (I also think that a rugby program for 13-15 to develop sound form tackling skills would be a positive element of evolution of the game/player dev.) would threaten the possibility of retaining more players than are already deciding to play HS...quite the opposite. It's a rare Adult activity foist upon children, and hardly scaled at all...I'd personally be hungrier and more prepared for the earned element of full contact, and ready to suffer lesson & drill to earn that privilege, too. Stunned that such a factor is lost on some.
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 29, 2018 14:17:04 GMT -6
As for rogue leagues, I doubt any exist, as I imagine there is some type of Insurance involved...little less inclination to deviate from a National body in this case...I mean, were talkin' Canada & Hockey. Sacrosanct, I believe describes the relation. Doubt anyone puts their child into an unaffiliated program. But we were discussing legisl'n by gov't, not an independent rules-making body. Whatever authority Hockey Canada has is by reput'n, not police power. It's the same w football, where at any given time a great many different rules codes exist. My point about HC is that as a National Body it proactively instituted these rules as opposed to having to be made to via Legislation. Something about taking responsibility or some such thing. Probably some antiquated notion. Useless to some, even. So we kinda ARE talking about HAVING to Legislate something that IS CONFLICTED and INCONSISTENT. Up here we have Football Canada as the umbrella for that sport just like Hockey...no player anywhere avoids registration and gets to participate...certainly with population & geography, it might be easier up here...though if every Province dug in with differing stances, there'd be similar issues, no doubt.
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 29, 2018 14:02:10 GMT -6
I also never said that the magnitude doesn't have an effect. I said the argument is a moot point because the problem being addressed is repeated hits to the head not necessarily harder hits to the head. What they are saying is that by not allowing kids to play before 12 in most cases you are taking 5-6 seasons of hits off of the brain. Actually in most cases you'll be taking all of their seasons of football away, because more players play tackle football below that age than ever play above it. Anyway, even if you discount for the magnitude of impulse of the hit, then for those who do play for many years you'd achieve the same result of taking away seasons of hits by not allowing anyone over 12 to play. Oh the irony. Cog Dis is a nasty nasty thing. So...youth tackle doesn't retain #'s throughout HS and beyond?? Hmmm. But eliminating tackling under 14 would mean nobody would ever play tackle, ever...You can't fix some things...sometimes they are what they is.
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 29, 2018 10:59:50 GMT -6
1-I never stated it as "fact." I actually said one could assume based on the information known that it was that the majority of youth coaches have no formal training or the external motivation to get the training. And it's not really cherry picking if I'm not withholding anything. If there were evidence to prove my opinion wrong I would gladly welcome it because that means that what I have witnessed is only a small fraction of what actually happens at the youth level. Again, I'm just making an assumption based on personal experience and the information presented. I chose Pop Warner because it is the biggest youth football organization and it only covers 20% of kids 6-12 who play the game. The whole point that I am trying to make it that there needs to be some sort of a governing body over youth football whether it be state or national for things like this law to go away. 2-You can believe what you want about CTE but there have been multiple studies done that point to repeated sub-concussive hits having a huge correlation to getting CTE. link Here is one of them. It may not be "proven," but if it sounds like a duck and looks like a duck. 3-I don't understand how me saying greater momentum being a moot point means I don't understand that hits are changes in momentum. I'm saying that the big hit that you may take every now and then isn't as big of a problem as the many little hits they take on a daily basis during practice and games. Go and google youth football big hits and tell me that some of those kids aren't bringing wood. if sounds and talks like a duck, lets just outlaw it. If that is your argument, athletics is finished. You said it. I think it is all non sense. Hope you handle the Drama department and not the Debate Teams. Little worried about History & the Sciences, so I won't ask of those. Bill & Sean like Tom & Drew and neither of em played youth tackle. What do they prove, anyway?
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 28, 2018 22:01:55 GMT -6
You could take away loads of ways for kids, or adults, to have fun, & there'd still be plenty of ways left. But that fact about the relative mass of helmets is at best an argument for just making tackle football for kids that size helmetless. Town Beef (now American Sevens) brought back unpadded football for adults; it may be just a matter of time for that to filter down to younger players. (Of course they also changed some other things, like getting rid of snaps & kicks, & making throw-off plays 3-on-1.) Does Hockey Canada have legal authority to keep someone from forming a hockey league that doesn't affiliate w it & therefore not be subject to its rules? Only a few sports in the USA are legally commission-regulated. If there are no state football commissions as there are for boxing & racing, I wouldn't expect them to be instituted now. As to Roosevelt, it's been debated for a long time how serious his threat was. There was a back-&-forth 30 yrs. ago in the Journal of Sport History about that. The only reason there was leverage over football at that time is that the pro game was minuscule in interest, & the high school game was a smaller deal too; it was only the college game that got much att'n. If the physics of the helmet would promote helmetsless, then what harm in eliminating tackling until 14? (I've misplaced the links, but I recall an uptick of 100k more registered players w/Hockey Canada in the two seasons after the checking ban for 13 and under...dropoff since has been cited to be caused mostly by costs and likely a need for options for less 'pro-inclined' competition. As for rogue leagues, I doubt any exist, as I imagine there is some type of Insurance involved...little less inclination to deviate from a National body in this case...I mean, were talkin' Canada & Hockey. Sacrosanct, I believe describes the relation. Doubt anyone puts their child into an unaffiliated program. Thanks for taking on Teddy...I hadn't much point to make aside from that the game didn't die off due to changes...113 years on...we discuss further in the same vein as he. Who knows what the game looks like in another century...but that won't be for us to see. **Also important to note/consider is that Hockey Canada proactively instituted the changes related to bodychecking.
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 28, 2018 18:25:35 GMT -6
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 28, 2018 12:22:09 GMT -6
Arizona v Texas Flag Competition of teens at ProBowl/NFL FLAG Championship...nah..no carryover here...move along!
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 28, 2018 10:55:59 GMT -6
Not following the logic...Present a list of mostly HOF Pros...but they/we somehow missed the Football Boat? Seems the point of their presentation is off? Bobblehead Football is a sick joke imo...but responsibly graduated levels of contact through age groups is the lynchpin that will topple the Game? Sorry, but if that data doesn't show that tackle before 14 or 10,000 hrs is NOT a prerequisite for professional success, there's not much more to say. Anecdotally, had cousin, year older, metro/city life...played young, got concussed, never played when older. Myself, rural, first opportunity at org ball at 15...able to play through inj...(that can be viewed 2 ways)...continued to play mult. seasons. Very small sample, but stands as a clear example for myself. **Hockey is a sport that keeps bodychecking out of play until a certain age...The Dying Game of Hockey (full sarcasm)
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Post by coachdirt on Jan 27, 2018 21:44:51 GMT -6
Anyone consider how Roosevelt was received at the time he moved to evolve the game? Probably some parallels to this generations epidemic. Not playing until HS doesn't appear to be a hindrance to quite a few folks listed: QB – Tom Brady, 9th grade RB – Jim Brown, 9th grade RB – Walter Payton, 10th grade WR – Jerry Rice, 10th grade WR – Tim Brown, 10th grade TE – John Mackey*, 10th grade OT – Anthony Munoz, 9th grade OG – Larry Allen, 11th grade C – Dermontti Dawson, 11th grade OL – Matt Birk, 10th grade OT – Walter Jones, 9th grade DE – Michael Strahan, 12th grade DT – Dan Hampton, 11th grade DT – Warren Sapp*, 10th grade DE – Julius Peppers, 9th grade LB – Lawrence Taylor, 11th grade LB – Willie Lanier*, 9th grade LB – Harry Carson*, 9th grade CB – Mike Haynes*, 11th grade FS – Everson Walls, 12th grade SS – Jack Tatum, 10th grade CB – Hanford Dixon, 9th grade (* These players have personally stated to the Concussion Legacy Foundation that they never played tackle football until the age listed.) "Dozens of other greats narrowly missed the cut for the All-Time Greatest Team, including Drew Brees, Curtis Martin, Kellen Winslow Sr., Clinton Portis, Malcolm Butler, Mike Iupati, Jahri Evans, Charlie Joiner, Jackie Smith, Ben Coates, Ed “Too Tall” Jones, Leo Nomellini and many more." I suppose it wise to sort out what trench we are trying to defend before we dig in and launch ordinance.
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Post by coachdirt on Feb 26, 2017 22:19:44 GMT -6
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