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Post by jg78 on May 31, 2023 13:52:20 GMT -6
I am speculating based on his background.
Let me ask you two questions:
1. All else being equal, would it be fair to say that quarterbacks, centers, and middle linebackers generally have a deeper understanding of football schemes than do cover corners because they play more complex positions with a greater range of responsibilities?
2. All else being equal, would a player who’s good in spite of mediocre physical ability likely be a better bet to have a greater understanding of the game than someone else who dominated with off-the-charts measureables, especially in a simple role?
I have never heard Deion Sanders talk X’s and O’s at length. Maybe he’s a savant on a chalk board. I don’t know, and neither do you. We can only speculate. And his career as a player is very secondary to his lack of experience as a coach as far as what I expect of him at Colorado. It is a minor factor, but it is a factor since there’s just so little to discuss regarding his actual coaching ability. If it were Peyton Manning jumping into this role with limited coaching experience, I would feel a little better about it because he basically was an OC for about 15 years. Manning might suck as a coach, but his playing career was better prep for a P5 coaching position than Deion’s.
If Deion had just won the natty as DC as UGA and was moving on to Colorado, we wouldn’t even be talking about his playing career aside from the star power it offers. There’s just not much to go on (positive or negative) regarding Deion. That’s why everyone is intrigued by the hire. If he worked his way steadily up the ladder, there probably wouldn’t be as much interest and intrigue.
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Post by jg78 on May 31, 2023 10:18:48 GMT -6
Good grief.
1. Sanders played a simplistic role as a player. Basically cover one guy and don’t worry about the other 20 players on the field. He wasn’t out there orchestrating a symphony on the field like a Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis.
2. Sanders dominated his position with his speed. I am not saying he was a bad technician, but he was no Jerry Rice. He had a leg up on his competitors in an area that you can’t really pass on to others: speed.
3. Sanders hasn’t been in coaching very long and never at the P5 level in any role.
There are plenty of reasons to question Sanders, and there are other reasons (his star power, charisma, broad familiarity with big time sports) to think he’s at least worth the risk - especially since there really isn’t any risk at Colorado. I have stated both sides, but you keep harping on this like a jerk when my point is clearly deeper than “he was just too fast.”
And guess what? This is a message board. Opinions and speculation are encouraged here, even with limited knowledge of a situation. If we knew for sure how Sanders (or any other coach) will turn out, we would all be millionaires in a few months, wouldn’t we?
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Post by jg78 on May 30, 2023 14:38:57 GMT -6
I said as much.
How’s that a great example? He took over a team at midseason that had fired its coach? What did you expect, a Super Bowl win?
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Post by jg78 on May 29, 2023 11:30:30 GMT -6
As players, do you really think Deion’s role was in any way comparable to Manning’s? A coach-on-the-field QB vs. a lockdown cover corner? You really don’t see my point here?
Deion in his prime probably had one of the most simplistic roles in NFL history. Manning had one of the most complex.
Because it’s a message board and it doesn’t matter what any of us says, but it’s still fun to speculate based on limited information.
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Post by jg78 on May 29, 2023 10:12:38 GMT -6
I don’t think what made Deion Sanders a great football player is easily transferable to coaching and teaching as what made Jerry Rice a great football player.
Rice played a more technical position, had a legendary work ethic, great character, and likely a greater knowledge of the game. He is arguably the greatest NFL player of all time without being incredibly gifted physically.
I am not saying players can’t be both smart and physically gifted. I am just saying when looking at players to be coaches, I would look for guys who displayed the best intangibles. I’m not saying Deion was lacking in football acumen as a player, but I don’t think he was the “coach on the field” type either.
If you gave one coach 50 players and another coach 50 players of equal ability, who would you favor to win? No recruiting to get better players or assistants to handle all the technical coaching for you. You have to coach them up yourself. That’s what I mean by “pure coaching.”
I don’t think Deion would fare very well in this scenario against most other P5 coaches. Not because he’s black, stupid, flamboyant, danced in the end zone as player, or whatever else. I just don’t think he has the technical background of most of his peers. He played in a very different era (in a less technical role and position) and hasn’t coached a snap against P5 competition.
If Deion is successful, I think it will be because of his charisma and ability to recruit - not his technical knowledge of the game. I don’t think he would make a very good coordinator in a conference like the SEC. Nothing wrong with that. Dabo Swinney has made a living at Clemson in large part by being charismatic, recruiting well, and convincing the school to invest lots of money in facilities and assistants who are probably better technical coaches than he is. He probably doesn’t last there without the Chad Morris hire to revamp his offense - and now Garrett Riley to do the same thing.
It’s going to be interesting to see how things play out in Boulder this year. I think one challenge for Deion will be how resilient he is if the team takes a beating - and I think they will. Deion has plenty of money and his name is secure in the annals of football history even if the Colorado stint is an epic disaster and they lose every game 50-0. Will he stick with the program if he’s not wildly successful?
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Post by jg78 on May 29, 2023 7:17:12 GMT -6
I don’t think it’s so much that a great player can’t be a great coach but that it can be telling to look at “why” the player was great when determining how good a coach someone might be. Larry Bird and Peyton Manning are among the greatest ever in their sports, but they were also known for their mental game. Bird was a successful coach for a period of time, and I imagine Manning would be good too.
All else being equal, a player who was good or great because he was sharp mentally is likely to be a better coach than someone who was good or great because he was a physical freak.
Deion was a physical freak who faced few (if any) WR’s he couldn’t outrun in his career. He also played 20-30 years ago and pretty much just locked down one guy instead of executing complex cover schemes.
Do I think Deion is as X’s and O’s savvy as a Kirby Smart or Lincoln Riley or even the average P5 head coach? I doubt it. As a pure football coach, he’s probably going to be below average compared to other P5 coaches.
Fortunately for Deion, being a wizard of the chalk board isn’t that important to being a college head coach. Deion has a lot of charisma and star power and those are more important traits provided he has the leadership ability to keep the program on the road.
If I were a major college head coach at a program like Bama, Georgia, LSU, or Ohio State, would I hire Deion to be my OC or DC? No. If I were the AD at one of those schools, would I hire him to be HC? No. If I were the AD at Colorado, would I have hired Deion? Yes. That program is so bad that it’s worth the risk (there is no risk, really) to see if Deion is capable. John Doe coming from Fresno State isn’t going to do anything at Colorado. But Deion might.
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Post by jg78 on May 28, 2023 13:18:26 GMT -6
Yeah, no thanks to a player who lost a scholarship to both ND and FSU, was drafted lower than he should have been out of character concerns, mooned Packer fans during a game, and whose highlight reel pretty much just consists of outrunning and outjumping people.
I will pass. He can coach your WR’s.
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Post by jg78 on May 28, 2023 12:09:36 GMT -6
Because Renfrow is white and Moss is black? Well, how about Jerry Rice? He didn’t have super physical abilities like Moss but is the GOAT WR. Had he decided to go into coaching, he probably would have been a great position coach. How about someone like Jalen Hurts who had to kind of reinvent himself at QB? I would take him as a QB coach over most people.
Few things are absolute but players who had to have discipline, and work ethic, and smarts to be effective are usually going to be better coaches than those who were mostly just bigger, stronger, and faster than others.
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Post by jg78 on May 27, 2023 17:10:05 GMT -6
It helps the transition if the player was great due to his aptitude rather than his freak ability. I would rather have Hunter Renfrow, who looks like an accountant but somehow plays WR in the NFL, coaching my WR’s than Randy Moss - who was just taller, faster, and could out jump everyone he faced. People who were overachievers as players usually make the best coaches. Ted Williams was one of th greatest hitters of all time and reportedly one of the smartest hitters ever. He literally wrote the book on hitting. He was a horrible hitting coach. Nevermind. My statement that overachieving players who excel at the mental game usually make the best coaches has been completely refuted.
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Post by jg78 on May 27, 2023 16:24:58 GMT -6
Coaches normally don’t disparage former players, and Randy Moss isn’t playing in the NFL with Renfrow’s physical tools.
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Post by jg78 on May 27, 2023 15:19:36 GMT -6
It helps the transition if the player was great due to his aptitude rather than his freak ability. I would rather have Hunter Renfrow, who looks like an accountant but somehow plays WR in the NFL, coaching my WR’s than Randy Moss - who was just taller, faster, and could out jump everyone he faced.
People who were overachievers as players usually make the best coaches.
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Post by jg78 on May 24, 2023 6:16:33 GMT -6
I spent most of my career as a DC.
On Saturday, I would prop up on my couch with my laptop and casually break down film while watching college games. Just compile all the raw data that doesn’t require a lot of deep thought. Write down a few notes here and there. I would also watch our film to see what we could do better and correct it with the players during film. I never saw much point in grading it or anything, though. (Did your 3 tech. grade better this week than last week because he was improved or because he was up against a freshman guard who will be in the band next year instead of the 5 star steamroller who will be at Bama?) Sunday, I would take that information and get serious with it and start game planning.
I had a system I believed in and the players knew, so we didn’t do anything drastically different from one week to the next. Mostly just some tweaks (if necessary) and drilling tendencies and personnel strengths and weaknesses into the heads of the kids through repetition. Coaching defense during game week is very much like preparing students for a test.
I have been in programs that met on Sunday (none on Saturday) but nothing ridiculous.
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Post by jg78 on May 16, 2023 6:14:45 GMT -6
In my experience, few high school coaches are hardcore fans yelling and screaming at college stadiums on Saturday and living or dying on every win or loss. I think this is largely due to the fact that what happens on Friday is infinitely more important to us than what happens on Saturday, so we place our energy with our own teams.
I grew up an Alabama fan, but Alabama could lose every game until the end of time before I would accept a loss by one of my own teams.
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Post by jg78 on May 12, 2023 20:10:22 GMT -6
I wouldn’t worry about it. At most, I would mix them up for locker room cleanup duties or something like that. Most boys can tolerate someone they don’t like if it’s mutually advantageous to do so. I don’t think it will be a problem.
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Post by jg78 on May 11, 2023 16:50:42 GMT -6
You can meet all weekend, but at the end of the week the team with the best players is probably going to win.
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Post by jg78 on May 9, 2023 15:42:31 GMT -6
This thread has reminded me of why I don’t coach anymore.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 26, 2023 20:22:17 GMT -6
Most of us went straight into coaching and evolved with the times. If you coached 30 years ago and stepped into a time machine into today’s game, you would be at a disadvantage.
As a coach?
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Post by jg78 on Apr 26, 2023 18:39:27 GMT -6
His career prime was 30 years ago when two-back, under center offenses were winning Super Bowls. His job was basically to lock down one guy and he was able to do so mainly because of superior speed and athleticism.
He hasn’t coached very long, and he’s where he is because of his image and the success of his playing career, not his coaching career. Do I think a lot of high school coaches around the country are more knowledgeable than Deion? Probably so. (But I also think HS coaches are underrated in general.) If I were a HC at an Alabama or Georgia or USC or Florida and could hire Deion to be my OC or DC, would I? No. And definitely not if his name were Ben Smith instead of Deion Sanders.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 26, 2023 17:17:56 GMT -6
I doubt Deion’s X’s and O’s acumen is as good as many high school coaches. I think he would be terrible as a coordinator. That said, recruiting and assistants are the name of the game when you’re a college HC so he doesn’t necessarily have to be a chalk board wizard to be successful.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 26, 2023 15:44:31 GMT -6
I do think Deion is learning one lesson: The transfer portal is a two-way street. You can’t just eliminate the guys you don’t want and bring in ones you do want. Some you want to keep might find greener pastures too. The leading WR from the spring game just bolted. I can’t imagine he is pleased with that.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 25, 2023 13:25:55 GMT -6
What’s everyone expecting from Deion at Colorado?
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Post by jg78 on Apr 24, 2023 13:02:38 GMT -6
Terrible idea to have players present at an interview. Let adults make adult decisions.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 11, 2023 19:05:48 GMT -6
Could be.
One of the reasons I no longer coach is because I don’t like the style of play anymore. I like old school Wing-T, I, Veer, etc. Good luck running those offenses at most schools. Whenever you struggle on offense, whether it’s your fault or not, folks are going to say, “Why are we running this antiquated offense? Why aren’t we in the spread like everyone else?”
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Post by jg78 on Apr 7, 2023 2:40:38 GMT -6
I think this is more accurate on defense than offense.
A great OC, QB, RB, WR and eight guys who can maybe get in the way of the defense a little bit can be pretty good on offense. On defense, man, it’s tough when you’re deficient somewhere.
OC’s have two advantages: 1) They get to choose the most important player on the field every play (the one who has the ball) and 2) They choose the point of attack.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 2, 2023 13:31:44 GMT -6
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Post by jg78 on Mar 21, 2023 4:23:16 GMT -6
This is definitely something you have to be wary of when putting backups on ST, especially punt and kickoff. One of the opposing team’s best athletes is about to have the ball with a lot of grass around him. If you have a bunch of scrubs out there that aren’t very good or maybe don’t really want to make a tackle (you know the type), that can be 6 pts. the other way real quick.
This is why I always subbed more freely on offense than defense late in games when we were ahead. A three-and-out punt is okay, but if you throw a bunch of $hit out there on D and the other team leaves their starters in, 28-7 can become 28-21 in a few plays.
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Post by jg78 on Mar 12, 2023 12:33:48 GMT -6
Bingo.
With few exceptions, you have to just love coaching for it to be worth your time. It needs to be your hobby.
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Post by jg78 on Mar 12, 2023 10:12:54 GMT -6
Your lower level kids running the same system as your varsity guys is a huge advantage for a couple of reasons:
1. Younger players moving up to varsity who are physically ready to contribute or start are ahead of the game. I remember a game I coached several years where a couple of starters were injured in a game early in the year and a couple of sophomores were able to step in and be effective enough to hold on to a lead because of what they learned in JV.
2. You don’t have to burn as much varsity practice time teaching rising players the basics from scratch. Your HB already knows 437 means Buck Sweep to the right - or whatever. And a senior guard who’s been pulling on Buck Sweep since he was a 7th grader probably isn’t going to make too many mistakes.
I agree with those who say it’s fine to make some tweaks for the JV depending on the personnel - but they need to be fluent in your terminology.
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Post by jg78 on Feb 12, 2023 15:48:30 GMT -6
A few questions come to mind.
1. What’s your wife think of the possibility of relocating?
2. How good was your offense? Did you hang 50 on everybody or couldn’t score to save your life?
3. Is the job out of state with your former HC?
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Post by jg78 on Feb 5, 2023 19:48:29 GMT -6
Fans are weird. Many don’t like NIL because they want players to play for a school and love it like they do. But there’s too much money in sports right now and too small a window for elite players to cash in on it for any of them to worry about anything but their own self-interests.
But fans are hypocritical. They sure as hell aren’t loyal to a coach or player who isn’t producing. And the fans will want the coaching staff to sign a 5 star from another state over the 4 star from the local state any day of the week.
Coaches and players experience a very conditional love from the fans who are supposedly so big on loyalty. The real equation is fans want to win and coaches and players want to make money and put themselves in the best position possible for their careers.
Loyalty in big-time sports is an illusion.
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