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Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2023 16:56:16 GMT -6
Here's a "red flag" story that was an omen for an exceptionally awful season. I'd just been hired as a program's DC and we were running a youth camp in the summer. I was coaching the DBs and we were doing a back-pedal/t-step/ rally to the ball progression of drills. Some random dude interrupted me in the middle of teaching. "I used to coach here and my boy is playing safety at Blue Mountain State. He has a better way of doing this. They need to chop their feet, not t-step." I quietly told him to go away as it was my drill to run. But, he and his kid hung around and coached kids that weren't in the drill. I was new and didn't want to cause a scene so I just let it go. I approached the HC about it later and he told me that a) everyone was allowed to coach at camp and b) I needed to be open to "college" ideas. I had hopes the HC was going to tell you to tell them to F off next time, then i remembered the subject of this thread lol
Two days later, we had the high school camp. The HC brought in a former high level college FBS LB to help out. I was teaching DBs how to play basic man-man coverage technique (five yards off, back pedal, key, break, etc...). The high level "helper" interrupted the drill because he also had a better way.
"Alright, you're gonna line up five yards deep and one yard inside of the WR. You need to find your run fit key, that's important here. Gotta have the run fit key... Don't backpedal at the snap, read your run key. If it's run, you're gonna come down hill and play the run. If it's pass, then you're going to get your eyes on the WR and match his route. Here, I'll show you what it looks like on air."
He bounces around like an an ADHD five year old who hasn't had his Ritalin, babbling the entire time. "I read run, BAM!, I redirect and make the play!". "I read pass, I look at the WR, he's running an out, BAM!, I chase the out. It's easy..."
I didn't interrupt him, given that the HC had brought him over to the drill to "help". He tried to set up a drill to replicate the skill and it was a disaster.
HC: "I want us teaching that technique this year." Me: "Coach... We can barely backpedal and read a WR's break. Much less make a run/pass read and then play man." HC: "Well, we don't have to backpedal now."
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Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2023 12:33:53 GMT -6
Here's a "red flag" story that was an omen for an exceptionally awful season.
I'd just been hired as a program's DC and we were running a youth camp in the summer. I was coaching the DBs and we were doing a back-pedal/t-step/ rally to the ball progression of drills.
Some random dude interrupted me in the middle of teaching. "I used to coach here and my boy is playing safety at Blue Mountain State. He has a better way of doing this. They need to chop their feet, not t-step." I quietly told him to go away as it was my drill to run. But, he and his kid hung around and coached kids that weren't in the drill. I was new and didn't want to cause a scene so I just let it go.
I approached the HC about it later and he told me that a) everyone was allowed to coach at camp and b) I needed to be open to "college" ideas.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2023 11:39:30 GMT -6
I wasn't very good at many HC duties. But, I made sure I didn't waste anyone's time with unnecessary meetings or other bullchit. So much of what needs to be done can be handled from home, on a tablet or computer. One face to face meeting on Sundays that lasted a maximum of 90 minutes.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 22, 2023 8:08:15 GMT -6
Half hour before practice:
Bobby: "I'm going to miss practice for the next twp days. I have ACT prep with my tutor."
Me: "Uhh...Okay.. Aren't the ACTs in the spring"
Bobby: "Yeah, but I'm taking the pre-ACTs at school on Thursday."
Me: "Alright but I don't know that we'll call that excused, buddy."
Bobby: "The ACTs are more important than football"
Me: "Okay, I need to get to practice."
Called mom that night and found out that a) she was his tutor, b) she was helping him after she got off of work and c) he just couldn't be tired from football practice when he studied.
Long story short, he quit after I told him he'd be benched (as per policy) for the next JV game. Thankfully, the bosses agreed with me as Mom was thoroughly p-ssed.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 16, 2023 12:10:26 GMT -6
As a OL coach the answer is, not enough!
Amen.... There have been Tuesdays in my career where I've told the assistants "Don't plan on seeing the fat kids for the first 40 minutes of practice, fellas."
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Post by coachcb on Feb 15, 2023 11:01:51 GMT -6
Who is this Lombardi guy? Is he even on Twitter? I'll pm you his Insta.
Nothing like an I-phone seance.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 13, 2023 9:25:02 GMT -6
Absolutely. Vetting the junior high and youth programs should be a high priority. And, it's really not that difficult; just make sure you don't have a$$holes coaching down there. Those guys have two priorities: teach fundamentals and get the kids playing time. For as easy as that sounds a lot of schools struggle with it.
Don't I know it. If I'm being really honest, managing our junior high staff was one of the worst parts of my HC gig here. Babysitting them during a 9am Saturday game after getting off of the bus at 3am wasn't cool. I made it clear that they were to play all of the kids but that fell on deaf ears. They'd only do it if I was sitting on top of them.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 12, 2023 7:53:22 GMT -6
Agreed. There's "down" programs and then there's "We barely have enough kids to play a varsity schedule" bad.
This appears to be the $24,000.00 challenge in many "Down Programs"...unless it is a tiny school, where their total enrollment numbers are very low...why aren't the athletes who "starred" on the lower level teams going out for football in high school? I realize that it might be because they have a strong basketball program, or perhaps a strong wrestling program, and the coaches in those programs discourage participation in football...but in the end, don't you think that a major factor in their decision to not go out for football in high school really comes down to the student-athletes previous experience in youth or middle school football? If they got hammered every season in their younger years, their belief in their ability to succeed in football would have to be at a very low ebb...and they ask themselves...why should I go through this again? So my question to you guys is this: If you are going into a "Down Program" where the participation numbers are low, shouldn't you place as much of your focus on up-grading your lower level programs as you plan to do with the varsity program? Obviously, if your high school participation numbers are competitive with the other teams in your league...then your concern regarding up-grading those lower level programs probably should not require much of your time. Absolutely. Vetting the junior high and youth programs should be a high priority. And, it's really not that difficult; just make sure you don't have a$$holes coaching down there. Those guys have two priorities: teach fundamentals and get the kids playing time.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 3, 2023 10:41:25 GMT -6
We ordered some of those murder mystery in a box off Amazon and put the kids in groups of 4-5 and they had to solve the murder together while racing the other groups. Kids had more fun than they thought and they had to work together, explain their thoughts and come to a group decision. Prizes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
That's a great idea. And, I'm impressed; the kids didn't lose their minds. I've tried to play those with my family and it makes me angry.. Like "You Made Me Go Golfing Angry".
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Post by coachcb on Jan 27, 2023 16:17:07 GMT -6
I can't really comment on the funding/resource aspect but I can provide two examples of how we dealt with a powerhouse program in our state. This program is a monster and I imagine they define not making the semis as a "down year".
In 2016, we knew we were outmatched in every way, shape and form by this team. We came in chucking and ducking. We went down by four scores by the end of the second quarter and there was no coming back.. We continued to throw the ball around, turned the ball over and lost huge. It was exceptionally embarrassing as we were at home. We lost 63-8 and their JV hung 14 on us.
The next year, we had a new HC who wasn't going to let that happen again. We were just as outmatched as the previous year and it had the potential to get real ugly. The new HC made en edict; run the ball, take plenty of time between snaps and chew up that clock if they went up by three scores. We played a pretty tough quarter and a half but the flood gates came open and they went up by three scores. We ran out the second half and lost 35-16.
Some folks accused us of "quitting" in 2017. But, those same people wanted our heads on a pike after the 63-7 loss. So, screw 'em.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 27, 2023 11:08:34 GMT -6
Disclaimer; I've worked in struggling programs but I've never turned one around. So, take my two cents for what it's worth.
Hurdles:
1. Numbers. You've said that's not an issue so, IME, you're in a good spot.
2. In-season standards and expectations. Each of the struggling programs I've been involved in had few, firm standards for in-season practice attendance, punctuality and overall discipline. I suggest establishing those expectations soon; lay them out in a spring parent/player meeting. Don't paint yourself into corners with rules but have firm policies in place and make sure that everyone (players, parents, etc..) know that those policies will be enforced.
3. Off-season standards. Get the kids in the weight room. Two to three days of lifting, plyos and SAQ work will go a long way. Get a schedule in the kids' hands quickly so they know what off-season activities are planned and when. Weight room time, camps, 7v7, etc..etc.. I suggest a minimalist approach for this hurdle; the weight room, one camp away from campus in the summer and the "standard" school camp on campus.
4. Take a long hard look at the staff. Honestly, in my last HC gig, I made a mistake by simply hiring back most of the previous staff. I took the administration's recommendations and it didn't turn out well. I should've opened up all of the positions for interview and been more thorough in hiring the staff. In reality, if I'd replaced ONE dude with another interested candidate, our season would've been better.
IMO, you'll do well if these four hurdles can be addressed and overcome in the first year.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 15:01:54 GMT -6
As an aside, the assistant I described above is a saint. That guy would often have at least one student living in his basement when their lives went to chit. And, he had a wife and two little ones at home with him. He'd house and feed them until they got a better situation or until they could get into the dorms.
Great person.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 13:09:47 GMT -6
Define down. Like, used to be good, hit a rough patch or has never won a playoff game? I think the answers differ based on those situations.
Agreed. There's "down" programs and then there's "We barely have enough kids to play a varsity schedule" bad.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 13:04:35 GMT -6
We had a kid that came from a rough home life. Bear in mind that this was on a Native reservation so "rough" is an understatement. Mom was a drunk who was in and out of jail. Dad did his best but he was working a lot of double shifts to cover bills. The kid came into the program with some issues with booze, drugs and attendance. Fortunately, he loved football and understood that he'd be gone if he didn't change his ways. His first season went well, he played both ways for us and was a joy to coach.
His second season started out well but started to go down hill in a hurry. His grades were going to chit at school and he was missing a lot of school. He was also flirting with getting kicked off of the team for missing practice. I'd sat down with him a couple of times and couldn't get a straight answer out of him. That was unusual because he was typically pretty open about things. It was the same way with the assistants and the school counselor; kid was just shutting down.
He was late to practice one day and I lost my chit. I pulled him aside and lit into him. I demanded that he tell me what the hell was going on or he was going to be gone. Poor kid broke out into hysterics. Turns out Mom was back at home, drunk as a skunk and beating on him. He'd been couch surfing for a month.
This was a ridiculously rural area; campus was 24 miles away from town where he lived. So, he was missing school and practice because he either didn't have a ride to school or because he had to bail on 8th period and hitch the 24 miles. I found out he walked the whole distance twice. I felt awful about laying into him the way I did but I was glad I got the truth.
That night, one of our assistants took him in (I wasn't comfortable doing so as I was a bachelor living alone) and stayed with him through the semester. There was an opening in the campus dorms in the spring so he finished up his senior year living there.
He went off to a trade school, got licensed in diesel mechanics and is doing well for himself. He's married with a couple of kids and (thankfully) got himself off of the reservation.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 11:05:42 GMT -6
As far as Sanders goes, I believe the guy has proven to be a quality HC. He did some great things at Jackson State and I wish him the best at Colorado. I doubt he'll be a flash in the pan.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 10:48:43 GMT -6
All and all, the proof will be in the pudding. And we have a pretty simple metric; winning. Maybe Jeff Saturday goes on to produce fantastic results with the Colts... Maybe he crashes and burns. We'll see.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 23, 2023 9:19:15 GMT -6
I'm typically up in the box during games and I enjoy opening up the window (if there is one) so I can listen to the peanut gallery. We were playing a team who has arguably been the best program in our classification over the over the last two decades. I catching bits and pieces of the crowd from the booth. It was a well-played game by both teams and we lost by two scores. Man... Those fans were brutal with everyone. The kids, coaches, officials: everyone was fair game.
I will say, one of my best community experiences was with an 8-man program that we were trying to turn around. We had some rough games at home but the stands were packed and people were quite supportive. They'd line up by the sidelines and shake our hands after games. Close losses were as good as a win for our fans; folks went nuts when we went down to the wire with the #2 team in the state. I would've hung around but there were a lot of thing working against that football program.
IMHO you can change the culture of a program...quality leadership matters...in all schools. The primary Administrative decision maker (be that Superintendent, Principal or A.D.) and the Head Coach in particular. If they both have a genuine interest in changing the culture of their program...it can, and will happen (assuming there is close to comparable physical talent available to allow their team to be competitive).
This is the key; the community has to want to change. I enjoyed my tenure as HC in the school and we did some great things. But we were competing against an exceptionally successful basketball program that was pushing kids away from football.
IME, it all comes down to numbers. In an 8-man program, I feel that you can turn the corner if you can keep around 20 kids out for ball. That gives you a JV squad and the ability to run quality practices. Below that mark, you run into issues as a)your younger kids aren't getting much playing time and b)practice becomes difficult for a variety of reasons.
Our highest roll count was 24 kids. But, that was two days after school started (we had 13 out during 2-a-days) and those numbers thinned out in a hurry when the kids realized that the program had attendance standards. Within a week or two, we were down to 15 kids as nine either quit or were kicked off of the team for not showing up to practice.
I don't know, maybe another coach could've done a better job and turned the corner. But, I didn't see it in the cards for me.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 20, 2023 16:35:18 GMT -6
There's some interesting stuff that comes out of the stands when you're losing consistently as well. And, it's usually pretty telling.
We were struggling through a rough season and the last game of the year was a must-win if we wanted to make the playoffs. We were getting throttled by the #1 team in the division (#3 in the state) in our second-to-last game. We were down by like four scores early in the third and there was no coming back. It was too early to sub in the 2nd team but we started running the ball and chewing up the clock. We couldn't afford any injuries and were trying to shorten up the game. The comments out of the stands were as such:
"Throw the ball!! You're just quitting!" "Get more WRs out on the field!!" "The T is trash!!"
Bear in mind that I think we completed 3 passes in the first half.
For sure, my sister came and watched a game about mid-way through my first year as a HC (at a school that had sucked for quite awhile) and reported back to me on the peanut gallery's assessment of me. The group of folks sitting to her right thought I was the best coach they'd had in 20 years (we had a winning record for once), and the group to her left loudly let everyone know I was a "f*cking idiot". I highly recommend sitting in the stands at games during the playoffs or on bye weeks, it'll be a HUGE eye opener for you guys who may not do it real often. You can tell a toxic situation/community very quickly. It's also shocking to hear some of the comments that are directed at state championship level coaches and teams. I hate to judge whole communities based on a few doorknobs but it really does seem like some communities are just toxic/negative and genuinely aren't able to produce successful programs because those things get so ingrained. Conversely, great communities produce great programs and those great programs sustain great communities. It's like anything in life, winners keep on winning and losers keep on losing. Momentum is tough to break
I'm typically up in the box during games and I enjoy opening up the window (if there is one) so I can listen to the peanut gallery. We were playing a team who has arguably been the best program in our classification over the over the last two decades. I catching bits and pieces of the crowd from the booth. It was a well-played game by both teams and we lost by two scores. Man... Those fans were brutal with everyone. The kids, coaches, officials: everyone was fair game.
I will say, one of my best community experiences was with an 8-man program that we were trying to turn around. We had some rough games at home but the stands were packed and people were quite supportive. They'd line up by the sidelines and shake our hands after games. Close losses were as good as a win for our fans; folks went nuts when we went down to the wire with the #2 team in the state. I would've hung around but there were a lot of thing working against that football program.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 20, 2023 12:41:37 GMT -6
Yessir... I've experienced more criticism in a highly successful program than a mediocre one. Things do get rough when you're in a struggling program. But... The type of b-tching you get typically tells you why the program is struggling.
Absolutely. Winning programs lead to fans expecting to win all the time/being unhappy that you aren't winning even more. Losing programs that have always been losers by contrast come with a lot less criticism because no one really cares that much in my experience.
There's some interesting stuff that comes out of the stands when you're losing consistently as well. And, it's usually pretty telling.
We were struggling through a rough season and the last game of the year was a must-win if we wanted to make the playoffs. We were getting throttled by the #1 team in the division (#3 in the state) in our second-to-last game. We were down by like four scores early in the third and there was no coming back. It was too early to sub in the 2nd team but we started running the ball and chewing up the clock. We couldn't afford any injuries and were trying to shorten up the game. The comments out of the stands were as such:
"Throw the ball!! You're just quitting!" "Get more WRs out on the field!!" "The T is trash!!"
Bear in mind that I think we completed 3 passes in the first half.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 20, 2023 10:08:43 GMT -6
When the football team is good, everyone in the stands can focus on fixing other things around town. One would think that would be true... but I have been in the stands enough to know it just isn't so. Have heard many complaints and criticisms watching double digit state championship game wins.
Yessir... I've experienced more criticism in a highly successful program than a mediocre one. Things do get rough when you're in a struggling program. But... The type of b-tching you get typically tells you why the program is struggling.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 19, 2023 9:37:16 GMT -6
IMO, the value of a successful football team isn't able to be quantified. As Coachcb just said, the cascade effect of impacting all boys sports is incalculable. I've been a part of 3 successful football schools, the amount of confidence those kids had allowed them to attempt more things in life in general(academics, athletics, etc.). I'm currently at a football tradition poor school, and our kids have 0 confidence. THis applies in all aspects of life, sports, academics, weight training, etc. Just a total fear of failure. So my question is how do you measure the value of confidence? Is that one of those things you can't measure, but you know it when you see it? That's my take on it. I can typically see it day by day at practice. In successful programs/schools, the kids do a good job of holding themselves accountable throughout the day. They hold themselves to a high standard as it's expected and they know it. We rarely have to enforce that standard. The season might be rough by the program's standards (i.e. .500) but the kids keep it together.
Not so much in a struggling program. The standards of high effort and quality attitude have to be reinforced from the start of practice until the end. I can see it in how the kids carry themselves, even after a win or a hard-fought loss. It can be draining as you feel like you're trying to hold the team together, 24/7. You're always trying to strike that balance between keeping their heads up while holding them accountable without killing what little confidence they have.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 17, 2023 11:07:42 GMT -6
IME winning football programs help produce success in the other boy's sports. Which, in turn, has a cascade effect in terms of school spirit, and student and community involvement in the school.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 17, 2023 9:25:59 GMT -6
I don't agree with these kinds of workouts for a variety of reasons.. But, to play Devil's Advocate, we're seeing an uptick of rhabdo-induced workouts as of late. A few of these workouts don't seem to be more intense than some of the crap we did back in the 80's and 90's. I remember some hour long wrestling conditioning sessions that were pretty rough. We've all talked about how kids, on average, are in much poorer shape. Could this be contributing to these situations? My guess would be that kids' poor fitness levels might contribute to this. If that's true then I think it's even more important that coaches cover their behinds by having a simple, but well planned progressive routine. We know how to build strength in young people. We just need to avoid the urge to do something novel or bad a$$ because it's seen as cool or bad a$$. Unfortunately, there is nothing very sexy or click worthy about doing 3 by 8 and progressively adding weight or whatever your progressive routine looks like.
I agree, completely. There is a part of me that wonders if we're going to run into a situation where a "standard" workout triggers rhabdo in a kid that is completely out of shape. I've read two stories of untrained individuals ending up in the hospital after a difficult workout but nothing we'd call over the top. I understand that much of this comes down knowing your population and working up in a reasonable progression. But, I still see some potential landmines.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 13, 2023 13:16:22 GMT -6
I don't agree with these kinds of workouts for a variety of reasons.. But, to play Devil's Advocate, we're seeing an uptick of rhabdo-induced workouts as of late. A few of these workouts don't seem to be more intense than some of the crap we did back in the 80's and 90's. I remember some hour long wrestling conditioning sessions that were pretty rough.
We've all talked about how kids, on average, are in much poorer shape. Could this be contributing to these situations?
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Post by coachcb on Jan 6, 2023 8:10:31 GMT -6
This is from the highest paying district in the state. They don't cap their bachelors lane off but many districts do.
How many days does this schedule represent?
I can't say for sure; some districts operate under hours, others under days. I would assume that it's around 190 days though; 180 instruction and 10 in-service.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 5, 2023 12:21:20 GMT -6
This is from the highest paying district in the state. They don't cap their bachelors lane off but many districts do.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 5, 2023 10:11:12 GMT -6
The first year/bachelors step varies by around $10k between the lowest and highest paying schools in this state. But, there's a marked increase when a teacher gets a masters as there's more steps on the pay scale. A teacher with a bachelors and no further education will typically stop getting a pay raise after 7 years. One with a masters will keep getting bumps for 20+ years. So, the difference in pay is typically $20k-$30k per year.
Interesting- My district went the opposite route - there is very little financial incentive for obtaining a masters.
There's a huge upside to continuing education in this state. Most districts will keep sliding you over on the lanes as you work towards a second Masters degree as well. This is typically fluff on those scales as few teachers actually push get a second Masters. I imagine this is a contract negotiation tactic to distract folks from the cap on years/steps for those who stick with a Bachelors degree. People don't look a the minimum they'll make in a district; they look at the maximum.
That cap on a Bachelors is s stickler when you go to the bargaining table though. Many teachers want steps/years added to that first lane and the school board I negotiated with fought it tooth and nail. They put a premium on that Masters degree and didn't care that they'd pay out a lot less in the long run if teachers stuck with their Bachelors. I understand that to a point as I felt my Masters degree made me a better educator but there's other teachers who will admit that theirs didn't help them out much. Other than boost their pay.
I do know a few teachers who've gotten a doctorate in education and not only been paid well by the district, but also taught classes at local university for extra cash.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 5, 2023 9:13:50 GMT -6
Yeah, that pay scale can look ugly for a first year teacher with a bachelor's degree. Pick up a masters and a few years under your belt and the financial situation brightens considerably. And, our state's teacher pension is exceptional; I can retire comfortably at 55 years old if I want to.
I believe that salary schedule is going to vary considerably from place to place as well. In my district, the pay is pretty competitive amongst other school districts-and the starting pay is not significantly lower than many other professions starting with a bachelors. However none of the higher paying districts (such as mine) really pay for experience or higher education. In my district the difference in 25 years of experience might be $10,000 a year.
The first year/bachelors step varies by around $10k between the lowest and highest paying schools in this state. But, there's a marked increase when a teacher gets a masters as there's more steps on the pay scale. A teacher with a bachelors and no further education will typically stop getting a pay raise after 7 years. One with a masters will keep getting bumps for 20+ years. So, the difference in pay is typically $20k-$30k per year.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 5, 2023 8:25:36 GMT -6
Yeah, that pay scale can look ugly for a first year teacher with a bachelor's degree. Pick up a masters and a few years under your belt and the financial situation brightens considerably. And, our state's teacher pension is exceptional; I can retire comfortably at 55 years old if I want to.
What state is this? Most states use to be like this, but few still are...
Montana
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Post by coachcb on Jan 4, 2023 10:13:45 GMT -6
My .02 The pay is not as bad as people like to claim. I think this varies widely- both by location and also by comparison to other careers that require similar entry qualifications. I would say it isn’t a “claim” - as most public school salary schedules are public information. To be fair though-most ALSO do not take the fact that in many cases teachers get paid for 181-190 work days, and the general public is around 225-235. I have that argument a lot with peers.
Yeah, that pay scale can look ugly for a first year teacher with a bachelor's degree. Pick up a masters and a few years under your belt and the financial situation brightens considerably. And, our state's teacher pension is exceptional; I can retire comfortably at 55 years old if I want to.
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